First off I have read the sticky on 3x00 head swaps and have gotten enough information to feel comfortable with it but there is a few other things I would like to know before I continue... I am putting this in my 91 RS 3.1 V6 speed density, distributor system I have the engine out already


I bought this 93 chevy 3.4 v6 camaro speed density coil pack system for $100 and put 200 miles on it so I know the engine is fine (minus some tuning issues) but what all should steal from this for my other project? I already plan to take the rear end (although it has drums ) and put 295 width tires on the back. the transmission is ok... (had very little oil in it when i bought it) should I use the ECM and wiring harness? anything suggestions would be nice

 

If the 93 has a 5-speed, take it. If it's auto, leave it (4L60E). Just take the engine, leaving the harness and the rest behind. If you plan on going hybrid, you will need to adjust the engine harness for new component locations and swap over the connectors for the ignition module in place of the distributor wiring. Other than that, everything swaps, and you still use the stock harness.

 

for a N/A build you'll be fine with a 3500 top end on your 3.4.. but if you want to boost it then you should probably swap the pistons out for some from a FWD 3400.


3.4, 3.4 pistons /3500 heads is about 11.5:1
3.4, 3400 pistons/3500 heads is about 9:1

 

I would use your ECM and harness, since it has a good ECM already (1227730).

You can swap in a 3.1 FWD MEMCAL, and have proper DIS settings.

For optimal results you should tune the set-up, by either doing it yourself, or finding someone with the equipment that can do so.

 

is that the 730' ecm that i have read about? I'm pretty sure i could get the ecm and wiring harness out and into the other one without too much trouble. With a little help i should be able to stumble my way through the tuning

I was reading this information ( http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums...p/t-49199.html ) and was wondering where I could find a 270 grind cam, summit has a 260 but they were saying that it wasn't enough cam to relieve the compression.... this isn't going to be a DD so high octane fuel isn't to much of a concern but id rather not be buying race fuel all the time to go play.

here is what I found for a cam at summit

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-K16-233-4/

and these would be good too i think

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-1618-12/

then a feel pro mls gasket for the heads and an intake gasket set along with exhaust manifold gaskets and the pacesetter headers from the 93

once i get my tax return ill pull the 3.4 get the 3500 heads uim and lim then ill bolt it up to the 700 r4 tune it and hopefully burn some tires!

 

I'd contact Delta cams, they should be able to grind you something that'll work. 3500 rockers are already 1.6 and roller fulcrum, you can run them and save some cash. You will need good valve springs though, Comp 26986's are the best and use all stock hardware.


Stock 3500 heads stop gaining flow around .5 lift on both sides, Shoot for a little over that, 110 LSA, 106 ICL, 270-280 adv duration. That should be enough overlap to get the dynamic compression down enough.

 

okay... I got some progress done still got alot to go yet though...


I removed the 3.4 I will be getting my new heads here in a few months


I removed the 4 gen rear end & I bought a new panard rod for hooking the new rear end in

I bought a Vortech V1 supercharger!



But I am working on getting the mounting figured out


I am debating on if it is ok to do this or not.... any advice would be great!
I am thinking about using my under drive pulley to run the system and using my old standard pulley to power a second belt for the supercharger however It will need to be re routed around the water pump or do something to change the water pump bolts


the bolts are currently just pressing the first one against the second one, the first one has no other means of holding other than the pessure

I think I will have to find a way to move the pulley out further or move the belt around the water pump????

 

I gotta watch this. Never seen a supercharged v6 thirdgen

 

^Agreed. Interesting build. Please keep posting pics with updates.

 

what happened with the m90 setup?

anyways if u want to run the second pull machine the inside flange out of the outer pully and stick it to the front of the crank pully then tig weld it. the drag from driving the sc will snap the long bolts, if u cut the cente rout u can use the standard lenght bolts

i have to look up the specs on the v1 but i think its a lil to large for the v6 i would have gone with a p600b

if i was the one doing this i would mount the sc on the driverside were the ac compressor is supposed to be and use the normal belt routing , this way u didnt have to figure out some sort of drive system


is the v1 cw rotation or ccw rotation , from what i can see in the pics it apears to be ccw which would make the ac compressor location the ideal mounting spot


+1 on calling delta for the cam tell them u want a 272 hyd grind with .525lift on both sides, just ake sure u specify hyd cam or they will send u a mechanical cam and u will be adjusting the valve lash every 1,500-3,000 miles

 

what trim is ur v1 and is it the std or heavy duty gear case?

info should be on the tag on the gear case

 

If he had a proper spacer made, he could use longer bolts without issue. Many aftermarket kits are set-up like this.

 

yup a solid hub inside the first pully would eliminate the bolt issue, i know he has a milling machine , if he has a rotary table he could make the proper/spacer hub himself

 

I am wondering what would go wrong if the supercharger is too large?(1) Im planing on setting the supercharger up with a 1.6 belt ratio setting the supercharger to a max of 38,640 rpms @ 7000 engine rpms... it should net about 500 hp @7,000 rpms and 410 ft lbs of tq @5,500 rpms...(specs found from comp cam's cam software) I am planing on rebuilding the enine with forged pistions and rods, however I was thinking that because the original crank is already forged it would hold it?(2) Next I am debating between the automatic and manual. Idk what the modifications to the automatic will cost but I do know that i need a sprag upgrade, better friction plates, and a shift kit... If I do go with a manual I can get one used for $400-500 but then a good clutch would be another $300-600 I have drove manual vehicles but I am much more use to a automatic any advice there would be great (3) * I do understand the parasitic loss differences between the auto and manual and it does make the manual more apealing. so does the extra gear! as for where I am at on my build I am starting to sanblast the chassis and repair rust problems then I will be repainting the underside and adding SFC's! then finally I will be putting my engine together and deciding which transmission to go with and putting it back together... My goal is to have the whole car together by next april-june... as I will be moving away from my workspace :l I do have a rotary table on the mill however I do not know how accreate I can get with the milling machine as the table needs some serious adjustment (this mill is prior WW1 I believe) so tha worries me however I am very good welder and I do have a mig welder, could I mig the two together with a piece of metal between them to give extra space for the water pump bolts? id feel much more comfortable with that and then I could cut out the center to use the original mounts on the pulley... btw all the pulleys are ferrous...

btw... I am also planing a $4500.00 budget for this project betwen now and next june

Thanks everybody for your interest and support!

 

@project 89 the vortech is an S trim and it is standard duty 90% sure of that

 

dont waste ur money on new rods/crank or pistons yet.

there is only one issue i see with the whole build, noone knows how strong the crank snout is, there is a chance u may shear the front of the crank right off, put this on a stock motor first and see how it holds up

let me do a lil more reasearch on that supercharger but im pretty sure its the smaller of the v1's which will be fine , if its to large u would just have to spin it slower and at lower speeds then what it was designed for u may loose efficiancy. other then that theres no reason u cant run a oversized blower

 

So, Ill set up the engine to run with stock rods and pistons. Ill make the spacer for between the pulleys since I now have access to much better machining equipment (I now work as a precision machinist in a very nice shop). then Ill make the mounting brackets for the supercharger and put the setup in the car. Ill put it all together once I get done sandblasting and repairing the floor pans and installing the power windows, locks, mirrors, alarm system, new weather stripping and the rear axel out of the other car. I may put in the manual trans. too before I put it all together.
thanks for all the advice hopefully all this works out. If it does maybe I can get the shop to produce a few kits!

 

got a little progress on the build alot more coming here soon, I made the plates that will hold the supercharger bracket on next Ill mill that plate and the hub to move the second pulley out to align it with the supercharger.... right now I am thinking about putting the car together and getting it to run again but without the supercharger... once I have it running with the carb set up ill then swap the carb and add the blower and be able to go back and forth for fuel econ. or performance with a few hrs of work between swaps.... switching to carb has a few issues if found, 1st ill have to get rid of the Dis system and swap to the Dissy system that the car use to have (not a problem cause i still have it) 2nd I have to find a way to make the fueling system work with the carb... thats where im looking for advise once again... any help with making the swap work would be great! thanks again guys!

 

 

looking good im not sure if i missed it by why are u going carbed on it?

why not install the 7730 ecm or go with an aftermarket ecm like megasquirt

 

Because he believes it will be easier to tune.

 

as for somone who knows how to tune carbs , and just did my first blow threw turbo car ,

u deff want to stay efi , carb does not have the fine tuneability of efi, yes the carb works and does a good job but i deff missed the tuneability on my friends car who went blow threw carb

i feel carbs are ok in an n/a application but it something forced induction the weather can cause a huge change in afrs which the carb cant compensate for .

the only time i would personally use a carb in a blow threw turbo/supercharger app would be in an e85/methanol application as its alot cheaper then an efi setup for the same

 

only three holes left to drill and some minor milling! hopefully it will be together soon!

 

nice , i have a few suggestions to make seeing just how long ur spacer/pulley hub is.

setup the outside pulley to use 2 dowel pins or extra bolts to keep some of the forces off the long crank bolt(s)

im using the same type of drive arrangement on my 3.4 that im installing the 4-71 blower on , i had my spacer dilled for 2 3/8s dowel pins then i just drilled the blower drive pulley acordningly

 

some more progress! first off I learned that the bolt holes on the right cylinder head of a 3.4 is a little bigger than the 3.1's which caused me to have to make some new spacer plates. The parts I made has way too much thickness to it but ill trim it down to exactly where it needs to be. once I have that Ill see if I can get a production quote at work. Once I get a Dyno done and make sure the crank snout doesn't sheer Ill probably be taking orders if anyone is interested??? (I need at least 10 to get an order in to the shop)
here is some more pictures

the belt routing with a 3.4 + 3.1 pws to be mounted behind the blower, its going to take a little more machining to accomplish this but it will be nice to keep



new spacer plates


potential mounting location the plate is going to get cut a lot shorter

 

For a quick explanation on why carb'd. I want to be able to switch back and forth between N/A and Forced Induction by changing a few jets where I live there is only a few tracks/ drag strips around and the closest of which is about 60-70 miles away (and I'm moving almost another 300 miles further away from here for college). I plan to have a 4160 Holley carb (390 cfm) with quick change jet bowls so that I can change the jetting easily. I planed to have the S/C on a separate pulley so that the belt can easily be removed. This is all so that I can be able to get the fuel economy of the v6 N/A then be able to get the power of the S/C with just a little bit of wrenching on the side of the road. As far as I know the 390 will work well N/A and will also respond well the the S/C with just Jet changes because the S/C does not have a huge jump in Air output like a Turbo does the 4160 should be able to manage the blower with minimal issues. (at least that is how I have been explained it)

Maybe its all just a dream to have it work that way but we will see how it goes maybe it will just end up being S/C'd because things will have to be done to the carb to make it work well with the supercharger

 

You do realize that with EFI, there would be no changes to fueling needed? Properly tuned the ECM will deliver only the amount of fuel for the load being applied.

IF you really needed to have two calibrations, this can be set up to use a simple switch to switch back and forth.

 

What he said. You can drive my car arround all day and if you dont floor it youll never know it had a turbo on it. Mpgs exspecially. I hope if works out for ya though. I just say efi is best because to me its so easy to dial in the fueling and spark compared to older carbed set ups. IMO

I would suggest you get a Wideband on there for when you do start it up, if you havent yet, and if you ever go under boost youll be able to dial in those jets safely. Along with some sort of Air intake Temps sensor wired into a stand alone guage just like the WB 02.

 

he already has the carb manifold on the motor so i doubt he will change

but u have one flaw in ur logic
the 390 carb is a 4160 series and has vacum secondarys
this carb will not work in a blow threw application unless u put the carb in a carb enclosure
basically its a big sealed box the carb goes inside so that it sees the increased presure so it functions properly . without the carb enclosure the secondarys will never open under boost

u need a 4150 style carb with mechanical secondarys for this to work the way u are planning

and btw that v1 moves alot more air then u think

 

How is the progress on this supercharged setup so far? I'm anxious to see how this turns out.

 

Sorry I haven't posted the progress lately, but Ive accomplished a few more things I got the 4150 HP carb. (the one with mech. secondaries) and a Aeromotive boost referenced return style regulator. Ive almost finished milling on the project I only have to trim the plate down and drill the three holes. Which will set the blower at the location I want it to be but Im waiting to get the motor back in the car so hopefully I can mount it so that it wont be sticking out of the hood (trying to look stock) I think I found a loop hole around this weather that has been holding me back... I swear it has rained here for the last 30-50 days with only one or two days break when I have to work... but here is some pictures

this is what it looks like now



I have the original belt routed and it'll clear the spacer blocks i've made (triming up the third one a bit right now

 

a couple of questions...
First, does anybody know if you can get a replacement Y pipe for the pacesetter headers? I believe I have the pacesetter 70-1208 (came with the other camaro) but it rusted out and I dont think I can copy whats left of it...
Second, I doubt the stock trans will like the abuse its about to get I called up a reputable Transmission guy in the area and I got quoted about $1300 to build it up (performance Tq converter, bigger trans pump, shift kit, planetary gear update?) but im kinda contemplating a manual t5 or t56.... (however first ill try to be nice to the 700r4 in there) the T56 project seems to have been attempted by many but Ive yet to see any videos of one working???? (btw the 700r4 shifted great b4 taking the car apart)

Also I bought two wide band sensors and gauges (one for each engine bank) (friend's carb'd super'd engine blew with the left side lean -> over cautious)

 

the stock 700r4 will hold for now , if it goes out have dana at probuilt build u a trans, or swap to a much stronger th350/th400, that quote for 1,300 is way low even if its say a good friends price, any decent converter for a small bellhousing 27 spline 700r4 is going to run a minum 450 bucks by itself. there is no real off the shelf converter, they are all custom builds for this trans.

tci is the only place that made one they used to keep on the shelf i got the very last converter they made for the v6 trans in my car


what size carb is that ???

 

I dont know if he knew that it was a v6 trans (that would make all the difference in price) but it is a 390 cfm 4 barrel its about right for the car but not for the 600 cfm I'm looking to get out of the Vortech unit but the mustang forums where they use carbs for this setup alot said to match the carb to the engine???

 

they are right u size the carb for the engine n/a,
when boosted u still flow the same volume of air threw the carb , the difference is at 14 psi its now flowing air that is 2 times as dense, thats were all the power comes from

that belt routing will work but theres minimal belt contact on the water pump pulley, if u can get the pulley in a lathe knurl the surface were the belt rides or it may slip.

 

Just throwing it out there Im looking to build about 350-400 hp out of this build
3.4 inhale cfm 389@ 100% VE
planned boost 8-10 psi
aprroximate cfm w/ boost 580-625 cfm?
still working on the right size pulley for the blower.... ordered the wrong one already (forgot the 3.45 step up internal ratio)
compressor map if anybody wants to see

 

once I get it running I could probably bring it to the machine shop where im working at and knurl it there? just to make sure that I do it in the right spot? we have quite a few puma 250 cnc lathes there or I could use the manual one?

Just looked up knurling I can defiantly do that at work but wont that increase belt wear?

 

use a small file and deburr any sharp edges and it will be fine, i always knurl stuff on a standard lathe and just set the feed speed to get a nice patern

 

If you want details for the T56 swap, I can help. I have one in my car with a V6 and I drive it daily right now. To give you a basic idea, you can start with the Speedway Motors TH-350-V6 adapter plate (~$75), 93-95 3.4L F-body clutch/pressure plate. Other parts of the swap would depend on which T56 you get. If you get an LT1 T56 the easiest thing to do is a HTOB conversion and an extended length pilot bushing (custom). If you get an LS1 T56 a stock T5 pilot bushing should be fine and you could use the stock HTOB (and shim it as necessary; you'd probably be the first to try so you'd have to figure that out when mating the trans to the engine).

The one I have is an LT1 T56. I also used an SFI-approved bellhousing on mine but you could also do the necessary mods to the stock bellhousing (trim for starter and some of the adapter plate bolts).

Edit: NVM, since you have a RWD block you probably wouldn't have to do any bellhousing trimming for the starter, just for some of the adapter plate bolts.

 

This is gonna be an interesting build to watch.

 

Looks like there is nearly half of the pulley diameter of belt wrap there on the water pump pulley. That will be enough to have no worries.

 

got some more done on the project. As for the 1/2 oil return to the pan what do you think about this?


the nut being inside the pan and the rubber piece and washer on the outside



and mounting it on the driver's side close to the front of the oil pan
*Also is there oil pressure coming out of the spot by the oil filter where I put the other barbed fitting?*
other progress

got the floor pan above where the trans goes cleaned up sanded and re-painted

(mostly cleaned up)


and painted 1st coat

 

Can the crankshaft sensor 24x i believe be wired into the msd 6AL to run as a crank trigger? Ive tried looking up a wiring diagram for these sensors but it seems they run on 5 VDC and communicate to the stock ignition system which is not being used ill post up pictures soon but both the cam and crank sensors have 3 wires a red, green and black. I believe that means they are fed 5vdc on the red, grounded by the black, and the green outputs 5vdc to the system?

 

That oil line adapter would work out ok. I personally just welded a bung onto the pan itself for the oil return.

 

No the OEM crank trigger will not trigger an MSD ignition box properly.

 

so the do I have to get or make something like this or is there something that people usually do that I should do too?


But the motor trans and drive shaft is back in and Id say it looks pretty good in there hopefully I can figure out how to get spark in this thing and have it running here soon! then ill put the blower on and find a dyno to see what its outputing

 

Has anybody used a reed relay or a FET relay to convert the 5vdc off of the crank sensor to a 12v (on/off) gate to use the points style connectors (just require to have a connection between the two) off of the MSD 6 series ignition?

7,000 RPM-RPS(rotations per second) = 117 (rounded up)
3 activations per revolution
3*117= 351 (activations per second @WOT)
1sec./400 (activations to be safe)= 2.5 mS

Reed relays have a gate activation time of 1-2 mS (should be close)
Digital relays I Haven't found a gate activation time

Even if this does work out I would be very skeptical of the $.81 piece used to run it all, but what do you think about it?

 

You're way over complicating this.

Use the points trigger input, trigger from the ICM to trigger the MSD box.

To use an actual crank trigger, it would have to be something custom for your application. And unless you're at that point where you've pulled every last little bit of power out of the combination and you have nothing else that you can do, it will be pointless to spend the time to do so.

 

That would be much simpler Ill have to take and look at the wiring diagram in the Haynes manual to find the ICM's wires I need to connect to.
Thanks Six Shooter sometimes I get a little but this is the most ive ever invested into a vehicle and I'm in a bit deeper than my usual mechanical ability.

 

are u using a vacum advance hei distributor? or the efi hei distributor?

honestly if u want the best power , driveability and saftey from the system u should buy the programable msd box , and not use the 6a/6al box