My 89 2.8 Camaro was my first car, and I still drive it every day for going on 9 years now. I bought it with my hard earned summer job money and my dad and I made it driveable together. Needless to say, the sentimental value of this car to me is unmeasurable so simply replacing it is out of the question. I can just sense that the little 2.8 is about to commit suicide and it seems like a good chance to upgrade. To state my case, we all know the 2.8 is weak regardless of the cash you throw at it (believe me I have been there). I have had it up to my eyeballs with MPFI and I don't want to throw in a V8, thats a hassle I'm not willing to deal with at this point in time. What I'd really like is to drop in a v6 with larger displacement and a carb. I have seen 3.4's floating around on the web with carbs, but i can't really seem to find any info on them. I did a pretty thorough sweep of summit and couldn't find any carb intake manifolds or carbs for the 3.4. If anyone out there has done this, seen it done, or can confirm or deny this as a possibility feel free to chime in.

 

The V6 Board is where you want to be. Check it out!

 

search Edelbrock for the Performer 2.8, not cheap. And not legal for your '89.

 

I was looking at that intake topper earlier today actually. It's my understanding that a 3.4 will drop in and hook directly up to my T5, then a fuel regulator to properly fuel the carb (among other things like relays, gauges and wiring)? I'm a body shop tech so planning things out and having all the parts beforehand is basically how I do everything car related. What I am looking to do is to rebuild a stout 3.4, top it off with the edelbrock intake manifold, topper, and maybe a 4 barrel Holley, then drop it in once I'm satisfied with it. I don't plan on it being an entirely smooth process and I'm willing to spend up to a couple grand and drag it out as long as needed to do it right. Can you think of anything that might surprise me or otherwise completely dash this dream? Also, I live in Oregon so smog and legality is of no concern to this particular build. Thanks for replying!

 

the only weak 2.8 is the early carbed version.

all mpfi variants have been proven to over 500 hp reliable

anyways to answer ur question its as simple as going to the junkyard getting a 3.4, u need to reuse ur stock 2.8 oilpan and front timing cover on the 3.4, and then the engine bolts in

2.8 = base engine
3.1 = stroked 2.8
3.4 = bored and stroked 2.8

as far as the carb u have 2 options
go find a stock manifold and carb off a early 2.8 engine
or buy the edelbrock manifold base with the 2bbl top to use the stock carb or the 4bbl top to use a holley 390cfm 4 bbl carb

u will also have to hunt down an early mechanical advance distributor to use with the carb


if u really want the thing to last and be enjoyable to drive go buy a jy 3.4
pull the top end
port the heads
slide in a 260 grind cam from delta cams
reasemble with the 2.8/3.1 intake manifold

and install a ebl ecm or an megasquirt system and tune it

 

Good advice! Agreed.

 

If you decide to do the 4 barrel version the carb will hit the hood requiring a scoop or cowl hood. I can verify that the original two barrel carbs are not the best of ideas to use.
Somebody used a TBI intake and redrilled it for a regular rochester 2 barrel carb. I was planning on trying this but never got around to it last summer and decided that finances are better now so I am doing the V8 T56 swap I have wanted.

 

Ugh. Carb v6 is worst of both worlds. If you're going to put in the time and money, why end up with a turd under the hood?

The cheap/easy solution is a '93 - '95 3.4L including a slightly modified intake, that way you can use your existing distributor. Do project89's mods and you have a nice 50 hp increase over stock in a package that is reliable and economical.

Or, for a bit more, slap together a mix of craigslist & ebay parts, for a 250 hp carb v8. Probably not reliable, not economical, but could be big stupid fun.

Not my choice, as someone said on here: "Using a carb for injection is like painting a picture with a cup instead of a brush."

 

I could be wrong but it seems as if you only read the title and not the post that I opened the thread with. I don't have an existing carb to use seeing as how my MPFI engine is MPFI. I had already mentioned in the first post wanting to exclusively use a 3.4. For that matter, I had already mentioned having no interest what so ever in doing a V8 swap. Implying that carbs are less reliable than FI is completely contrairy to any of my previous or current experience. (maybe I'm just lucky) I am also not seeing power as an issue either. I'm not usually one to quote numbers, but Edelbrocks Power graph for the 4 barrel intake shows a 20 FLBS torque gain on the 2.8 block alone with just a cam and headers (the tip of the iceberg for what I plan to do). I feel that if done correctly, a 200 HP naturally aspirated 60 degree V6 is more than possible. I am looking for suggestions on the subject at hand, not on what members think I should do "instead".

And as I am saying on here right now: " Calling an engine that hasn't been build yet a turd is like someone saying that when your son is born he's going to be mentally retarded"

 

as one of the top v6 guys on these boards i highly suggest u stay away from the carb

3.4 shortblock with a 100$ cam kit form delta will make way more power then the edlebrock kit and cost u a fraction of what the edlebrock kit will cost

the edelbrock performance package brings a carbed 2.8 up to fuel injected 2.8 power levels and that is all.

trying to save u a bunch of money and a huge disapointment if u do get the edlebrock carb package

instead of spending the money on the carb cam/headers look at my turbo build or fastedi's turbo build, for 800 bucks u can have a smooth running very reliable v6 that makes 400hp and knocks down 30mpg on the highway.

hell even without a turbo a 3.4 swap with a delta cam and ported heads will make alot more power then that crappy edlebrock stuff, and be much more reliable

 

Well, Don't get me wrong here guys. I think that your turbo v6's are impressive. Nearly a 70% power boost over stock on a 60* is sweet in anybodys book. ...and it is an idea that I've kicked around. The MPFI setup has just left a really bad taste in my mouth over the years. I haven't gone through the recipts lately but last I checked I had over 2K invested in the engine and it still has been a disappointment. I may just have a bad apple, but I really don't feel like taking another chance on it. Besides, the things that I need to replace on my current engine to even have a solid FI setup costs nearly as much as the performance carb setup. If I can score a 3.4 with all the wiring and ecm for a decent price, I may do a full swap and run that FI setup and see how I like it. I may change my mind later on down the road but as of right now I'm just not considering swapping that 2.8 intake onto my new motor.

 

it dosent cost that ,much to have a solid fi setup.

say u have a bad harness or ecm. lets take all the stock stuff out of the question.

rip out the stock ecm and harness, buy a megasquirt 1 v2.2 and harness for 311 $'s
that leaves u wilth 2 possible things to go wrong injectors and fuel pump both of which are very cheap

that alone solves the headaches for less then half the carb setup


or do as u say get a new ecm and harness and put that in but id advise u to stay away from the 3.4 harness and ecm the 4thgen ecm is non tuneable

best bet would be the 7730 and harnes sout of a 91-92 but thats going to cost just as much as the aftermarket unit

and for 2k invested and having issues witht he mpfi sounds like ur just throwing parts at it without knowing whats really going on.

what issues are u having with it to begin with, bet u its a really simple fix


and btw were not talking 70% power increases were more along the lines of 150-200% power increases over stock

average v6 motor in a 3rdgen will put down 100 rwhp the turbo guys are ll making 250-300+ rwhp

 

Well, last time I hooked it up to the tech 1 at work was because it was running poorly and misfiring at random. According to the scan tool my intake temp was reading at -32*, the engine was running lean and trying to over fuel simultaneously (havent had time to test the injectors individually yet but I think they are my culprit). In addition to that, I have some pretty serious lifter noise on the left side of the engine, the lower intake has gone from a seep to a leak, I have pisspoor oil pressure once the engine is warm, and I still get a code 32 at highway speeds despite having installed all new egr components. The above mentioned 2K isn't just into chasing around problems, the bulk of it is in the initial rebuild it's self. The engine used to be reliable, no doubt, but these days I'm afraid to rev it over 4 grand. And all these issues have led up to the decision to swap engines, no sense in rebuilding a 2.8 when you can swap in a 3.4 for the same amount of effort. Most of my dislike for the MPFI is in the design it's self. For instance, I would like to check the torque on the rockers to determine if the noise is excessive play or my camshaft is about to take a dive, but I can't so much as remove a valve cover without pulling the whole FI assembly. It all comes down to preference. Some prefer tuneability while I prefer simplicity. I really do appreciate all of everyone's advice here, and I may decide against the carb yet, but that wasn't the point of the thread.

 

I do like the megasquirt system from what I have seen though. Does this allow me to use a minimal amount of sensors or would I have to wire it into my existing sensors and valves?

 

if u know the engine has some issues, what i would do first off test the injectors first and foremost this way when u get a new engine u know they are either good or bad.

second ur right no point in rebuilding the 2.8 get urself a 3.4 and get it together and put that in,then adress any electronic issues u may have.


the egr is always a bastard to fix atleast ui dont have the super exspensive digital egr valve. on the 2.8 the egr is going to come down to a bad egr valve, soiliniod or a crack in the plastic vacum lines. 9 out of 10 times its the noid or the lines.

simple egr valve test is to when the motor is idling take a vacum line hooked to the manifold and plug it onto the port on top of the egr valve and see if the idle changes.

and trust me u will notice if it does cause the engine will sound liek a high compression big block with ahuge cam with the vac line hooked up.

if the idle dont change that means the egr is either leaking and or not opening at all

the ecm looks for a voltage change when the egr valve opens so either a cloged or non opening valve will throw that code and a faulty o2 sensor can also throw the same code


best advice i can give u at this point it buy a 3.4 build it up and put it in with ur current intake set and se ehow it runs, if it dosent run right start looking at sensors to see if any are bad, if it still dont run as u want then go ahead and get the carb and intake

but with all the knowledge on the v6 section im sure one of us can help u get it running tip top without much trouble
if u do have a cam going flat u will chase ur tail trying to get it to run right, though a compression and or a leak down test would give u alot of answers.


did u ever replace the air temp sensor ?? i also belive if u unhook the sensor it will read -32 so u may have a shorted or bad connection from the sensor to the ecm


even if u have some issues with the mpfi setup fixing them will make it run so mych better then the carb. i just hate to see anyne waste the 1500 bucks to put the carb on it when it wont run and drive as nice and or make the same power

 

u just reuse all ur sensors tps,coolant temp, air temp, knock sensor if u want to add one.

thats all the sensors it needs to run since it has a built in map sensor

basically each temp sensor gets a ground to the engine block then a single wire from the ms to each sensor

the exception is the tps that gets 2 wires from the ecm to the tps

4 wires from the ecm to the distributor and 3 wires to the injectors ( one power feed from the main relay, and 2 ground wires from the ecm to the injectors)

and thats basically it

i have a very simple ms wiring diagram made specificaally for the v6 cars posted somewere on this section i can dig it up if u need.


also if u wanted to use all new sensors u could pick up a megasquirt sensor install pack for about 65$ which includes all new coolant temp, ait temp and a single wire o2 sensor.they are the standard gm sensors that come on the motor

 

there ya go

 

Ah, I need to clarify. Yeah, my post doesn't makes since with "carb" in the place of "distributor." With a minor mod to the rear, you can just drop in a complete 3.4, including intake. Easiest swap ever.

And let me explain that earlier post with: carbs in a street car will generally make less hp than efi street cars. Carbs are dumb without adaptive programming. There's no way to have smooth idle and full power throughout the rpm range without some kind of flexible efi. You're either gonna have a nice driver with less hp than you have now, or a rev-happy beast that sucks in traffic. We keep pushing efi for the same reason Chevy guys kept pushing 350s for decades (and now LSXs): it is what works. Yes, you can get a 200 hp carb n/a v6. BUT, you will have spent more money for less hp than you'd get with efi.

Nothing personal. My carb hate comes from a complete turd of an '85 Berlinetta I owned 10 years ago. I hope that car got crushed.

 

I went ahead and shelled out the $16 for a new intake air temp sensor. I screwed it into the intake and took off from the parts store. It ran a little smoother but sure enough, at operating temp the SES light came on (dreaded code 32). I pulled into my driveway and popped the hood for a quick visual inspection. The New vacuum tube, going from the brand new egr valve to the the solenoid had melted and plugged the rubber elbow coming off the egr valve. The routing on the tubing was good so I can only assume that the Autozone bulk tubing is crap, or the IAT sensors muffed up reading caused the EGR valve to malfunction and overheat. ( I'm also hoping this solves my cold start issue). I'll clear the codes and come monday I'll plug the Tech 1 back into the odbi port and check the readings. Hopefully these issues were the root of my driveablity issues.