Also how good are are rods? Are mine going to be ok? While the engine is apart should i put in new bearning all arround? I know the cam ones are turning copper/bronze so those need replaced now while its apart.

Im not sure what CR to use then. I want to dump the 272 cam in though as it would be better with that intake for higher rpms. Also should i look at gettting a different oil pump? A higher volume one while its apart? To be honest dave you and a few others on here know a shittload more then me so your recommendations are better then my wondering thoughts..lol

As for what i want out of the combo? I just need a set up that i can take out on the street but that really shines at the track. Drive train aside after i dump some coin into this set up id like to see 11s in the 1/4 mile.

driveline mods alone will get u 11's , in all honesty i wouldnt do the hybrid swap with what u have , now if u had a 3.4/3500 combo then i would go for that

3.1/3400 hybrid is sort of a sideways/midways upgrade

for the money spent to do the hybrid i wouldnt spend it unless i was going for the 3.4/3500

i would do the driveline upgrades th350 + transbrake subframes and rear suspension , that alone will put u in the 11's . then save up for next season for a 3.4/3500 or full 3500 dont forget a roll bar or cage

Well im still going on the hybrid route. In all honesty I don't think that the set up I have is capable of 11 seconds. Maybe it could but i doubt it would make those kind of passes very long even with the best drive train arround. The heads and intakes are just poor design. My 60 foot times and 1/8 mile times were nice i feel for what the car is. The 4500 and up rpms though is such a slouch. Maybe the newer tube headers would have open it up but i want to go ahead and ditch the gen1 intakes and heads just while i have a chance to do it. Let alone i really like the idea of DIS.

I have a whole car next to it for parts. And to be honest its something i've wanted to do before i even put a turbo on it. The difference in the aluminum heads is amazing. Just looking at them you can see they will flow tons more air then my boat anchors...lol But I don't plan to get the car caged. 12.00-11.50 would make me happy with this car. Being a roll cage car/strip car isn't what i had planed for it. I like the fact that you cant tell is modded up unless you either hear it or look under the hood.

I do have plans to get a roller here in the next year or so and just make that a gutted bracket car. But in the mean time i want to get the camaro where i want it.

u could go 11:80's with what u have and save the other engine for the bracket car

ur converter/trans and suspension hold the key to another second of ur et or better

ill get u a parts list for the hybrid though

Progress is noving along well. Tore into the impala today.

http://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/h...95688513_n.jpg

what all do u still need for a parts list ? pistons, ringss

which cam u going with ?

still planning on a 272. I need to make a call to delta this week at some point.

I hope to pull the 3.1L out this week. All I have to do is unbolt the trans stuff and motor mounts.

ill get u a piston link soon as u know u can get the 272 for sure

u will need the higher compression with the 272 and u can get away with the lower cr if u go woth a smaller cam

What CR to aim at for the 260 cam? I wasent sure if the 272 would compliment the much better intake and heads or if the 260 is enough to work well.

i run the 260 with 9.2-1 , im a big fan of more cr and less boost , the car drives better out of boost and takes less boost to make power

witht he aluminum heads u can get away with more comrpession then u can with iron heads

overall the 272 should make more mid to upper power , with smaller engines u have to turn them faster to make big hp numbers

when putting together a turbo combo everything has to be matched together to get the most out of it

Dave what do you think the upper threshold power band is on the 260 cam considering the intake, exhaust and heads dont choke it out.



Finally got some time to look over the parts i took off the impala.

The heads: Very nice gm. Finally they are respectable in there stock form. Now I can see why so many told me to get alum. heads a long time ago. I took a little material off here and there but overall they are pretty good. The main things I noticed are the wells for the rockers bolts. They are dead on the side of the intake ports which i don't like too much. And some of the casting lines on the heads were pretty bad. The valve guides could use a little work but I don't plan to mess with these heads too much. Just smooth the cast lines, work some curves and give them a better transition.

Wow are those valve guides tight in tolerance. I noticed that right off the bat when I disassembled the heads to work the ports some more. Maybe my gen 1 heads were just that warn down. The valves on the gen 3 are in good shape.

I need to look into what valve springs i will need to support the cam and rpm. Any suggestions on what beehives to go with?

Else then that I just cleaned up the intakes and the valve covers. Tossed some heat paint on them and also cleaned up the throat on the upper intake. I need to make a egr block off for that intake. All is going well though and no major problems that I see yet.

Heads are filthy aren't they?? lol

the 260 falls off right around 5,300 n/a and 6000 ish fi , its a good match for iron heads

thing i dont get is everyone things the iron heads are bad , they arent bad at all they flow more then a stock gn head and u can make a gn head get u into the 10's

the only thing the 3.8 gn engine has on the 60* engine is it has more displacement , and known tuneups to get u into a cetrian et range.

the aluminum heads flow more put have there own inherint problems

make sure u get a damn good set of pushrods when u put this thing together specially with ahigh lift cam and stiff valve springs

I just like the alum heads more because of there runners and how well they curve and come together. Don't get me wrong I liked the iron heads and they did accomplish alot i'm my mind. I'm not banging the iron heads at all. I just like the idea of the heat dissipation, the fulcrum rockers, beehive springs, the open and smoother flowing ports, and the valves are also bigger then gen 1. But then there are issues about the alum heads too. I guess its just something I wanted to try, and I want to see how the set up works for me.

I still need to buy a push rod measurement tool. When i get ready to start assembling the short block hopefully by feb. or so, I will make sure I buy the correct length ones and tough ones at that.

Well if the cam is good to 6ish rpms I may just stick with the 260. Its broken in, and to be honest i do like the grunt it has out of the hole at lower rpms. What pistons do you think would be a good match dave. I need to get the block out but plan on boring it out a tad regardless if it needs it or not.

I still need to figure out my inter cooler deal and the exhaust. Im just buying the premade flanges off wot or BCC since there 55$ ish and I know the d ports will work right.

o take advantage of the better flowing head id still go with the higher lift of the 272

if i was u i would build it with 272 cam 9.5-1 cr moly rings and let it eat
the increased cr will help the bottom end and the 272 will give u the top end u need , just make sure the 272 isnt ground on a 109 lsa , theres 2 different 272 grinds , i belive the solid lifter grind is the one thats on the 109lsa just dbl check on that

it might be a lil soggy on the bottom end with the current converter but thats something u will have to take care of later no matter which cam u use

the 272 cam should be 216/228 duration on 112 lsa with .450 and .485 lift
its a split pattern cam ,

id ask delta to grind u something like
224/228 @ .050 .480/.480 on 110 or 112 lsa or
224/232 @ .050 .480/.500 on 112


110 lsa will be a bit more peaky and the 112 will have a wider hp range

Ok here's what my machine shop told me they would do for 300 bucks, just got off the phone with them.

Bore the block to what ever I want, Hone it, hot wash and degrease the block, replace the cam bearings, freeze plugs, and hang the 6 pistons on the old rods.

I though that wasnt too bad. One positive note is the place is about 5 minuets away from my house. There really isn't a lot of shops that are worth a XXXX arround where I live.

But now I need to find the correct pistons and rings that I will need. Im sticking with the delta 260 cam.

As soon as Christmas is past the block is heading to the shop.

i would really put the 272 in it

the 260 is a nice cam but at only 204/216 dur @.050 its really small
the 272 comes out to 216/228 @ .050 with a bunch more lift

the 260 is around .420 lift with a 1.5 rocker iirc , with the gen 3 stuff by all rights u should be up over .500 to take advantage

the 272 comes in right around .490 lift iirc

on the iron heads they start falling off around .450 lift unless u do a bit of extra port work, so not a huge gain by going with more lift on the irons
the gen 3 has a lil less port velocity then the irons so more duration,and lift help out

let me know what size ur going to bore for and ill link u to pistons and rings

never even saw this post , looks like a lil bit of work around the valve guide and u will be good to go, did u touch the ex side ports at all?

no i didnt touch the ex ports. I didnt wana mess them up as i wasent sure if there were spots on there i should leave alone.

I dont know what to bore it out. Is more better??? lol

Let me call delta and see what they think and what they can do for me for a cam really fast

id go .030 over but let me see what i can find u for pistons so i can see what oversizes are available, u want the pistons before they bore it so they can match the bore to the piston for proper piston to wall clearance

when i get out of work ill hunt u down some pistons

see if they can get the 272 with more lift something around .525 int/ex

rough intake ports, finish them with a 60/80 grit drum
and polish the hell out of the ex ports and the chambers on the head

Is there a max that those heads will take in there current stock form. They do have 1.6 rockers on them. Im not sure about how much lift i can go.

.030 over ones

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sl...make/chevrolet

Kb ones i find are not the right dish but are speed pro just as well because the ones i linked have the right dish that i want?

9.5:1 compression

i forgot about the 1.6's on those heads , just get the standard 272
u need to get valve sprinsg that will suport that lift , and i dont recall off hand what max lift is on those heads in stock form

its easy enough to check though basically remove the valve spring stick the valve back in stick the locks and retainers in and measure how far it will open before the retianer hits the guide/valve seal

then u subtract .060 for clearance and thats ur max lift number

if it is going to hit the machine shop can machine the guides , which isnt exspensive at all

Talked to delta and told them the heads im going to use...exc, they recommended a 270-274 grind and to spread the lobe separation out to 112. Cant beat 125 shipped to the door though. Thats why i like delta so much...lol good stuff for low cost.

On 60degreev6 its saying without the springs, just the heads, they are limited to about .700 lift...lol alot more then i thought. Also .450 on the lift with the stock behive springs.

272 should already be on a 112 lsa unless deltas version is on a 110
i was thinking .600 on the heads
set of ls6 springs should be good to go id have to dbl check on that though

Yea iv'e read that the yellow ls6 ones will take .575 so ill be on the look out for a set of them.

Well im starting to order parts.. looks kike this build is happening. I sold my iron heads but its almost sad to let those go and the original 3.1l turbo set up. That little 3.1l sure did exceed my expectations and then some.

ive got a few piston choices for ya, all around 100 bucks with rings , but im still looking to see if i can find cheaper sets.

i used to get my keith blacks for about 35-50 bucks a set with moly rings

haha u know whats sad i think our cars are going to have a better xmas then we will lmfao

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/show...wpost&t=692785

best deal i can find ya atm for pistons with moly rings
http://www.ebay.com/itm/94-99-Chevy-Buick-3-1L-V6-Vin-M-Pistons-AND-Moly-Rings-/110884009699?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19d133b6e3&vxp=mtr
engine tech is reputable stuff , i have alot of there stuff in my 3.1 , and its most of whats going in my tt iroc

go .030 or .060 over

Not even close with a 1.7 installed height, We broke 2 on .510 lift. They coil bind at about .550 IIRC but it's been a while.


Get the Comp 26986's or 26915's. I ran the 915's past 7K with .549 lift for years with 0 issues.

whats the spring presures on those springs ? ive been using roller springs in my 3.1 witht he flat hyd cam and they have gone over 7k alot , but u cant break in the cam with the roller springs or it will go flat

Ok so these will support my lift? http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMP-Cams-Valve-Spring-26986-12-/190992027629?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c78030fed&vxp=mtr
Are the stock retainers sufficient or do I need to get retainers to match the springs?

Also their about 280# spring rate. When the time comes should I break in the new delta cam with the stockers or can i use the newer ones and not screw up the lobes?

Thanks again

thos esprings are a lil weaker then id like to see

123#'s on the seat only 284#'s at .550 lift will be lower since u wont have as much lift

id like to see something around 300# open

u can break in the cam with those springs

the 26915 is nicer spring lil light on the seat but better open presure but damn they aint cheap

for the price difference id go witht he 986's

I run 986s in mine and I've spun it to 7k. Can't remember the lift though.

depending on how delta machines his cam his valve lift will be in the .520-540 lift range

i would not buy springs till u have the cam/cam card in ur hands
u will also have to check the installed height of the locks/retainer the lower the install hieght the more seat/open presure u get and u lose lift capability

im currently going threw the same thing with the cam in my 350 need to play with retianers/locks to get a good installed hight so i dont run into coil bind , kinda wish i had just stuck with all 1.5 rockers instead of 8 1.5's and 8 1.6's

Come Monday I'm just going to go ahead and call delta back and order up the new cam.

if the stock retianers will work with those springs u need to check installed hieght

find out if theese will work , once u know the install height i can tell u what spring pressure will be
89$'s
http://www.alexsparts.com/beehive-va...stock-to-mild/

I called up delta and there sending out a new cam for me. Cant beat 125 bucks.

I was also looking at these beehive springs. They cost less and fit the specs. But when I get the new cam ill look at the springs some more.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Trick-Flow-Valve-Springs-Single-1-500-Dia-375-lbs-in-1-130-Coil-Bind-/190994930465?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c782f5b21&vxp=mtr
I'm a little hazy on how to figure out the amount of lift I can get out of a spring. Can I just take the installed spring height, minus the bind height, minus .060 and then that's the number i can use for the lift?

I also have my old fuel rail and the new. So i have something to do this week that keeps me indoors and warm after work. I need to wire in my old connectors to the new fuel rail. Looks as if my injectors will fit right in there and be the proper height. The connectors are just different. Easy fix!

And since i sold the heads off the car the other day i figured why not just sit a new one on there for laughs. Dang thing looks nice to me. A lot of work to go though....

Oh ya in the pic that's a crap load of 50w i dumped in those cylinders. Its not coolent..lol I thought some may think it was.

Installed height is 1.70" on my 3400 heads.

So could I take 1.70" minus the bind height on those ones above of 1.13" minus a .060 grace area.... equals .510 of space left? That seems right but doesn't work out for the lift i need. Or I can just take the installed height and subtract the lift i want plus .060 and its come out the same that the springs not good. Also im not considering the interference that can come from the guides and the retainer on this example.

wait till ur cam gets to u so u know actual lift then we can help u with springs

at max lift u want atleast .060 clearance before coil bind,

now if u get springs that will clear .550 lift but they need a 1.750 installed hieght , if u install them at 1.700 u lose .050 lift , so u have to make sure u have the correct installed hieght for the spring u get

Im using K motion K-700 springs, not conical but they are pretty stout.

Stock retainers work with both the 986's and the 915's. I've installed both on gen 3 heads with all stock hardware.

The only issue with the 915's is that they are tight on the spring seat but after the paint wears off they work fine.

I actually have an old video showing the fit that I made for Ben at WOT-Tech. If I can find it tonight i'll put it on Youtube and post a link.


Also check out the PAC 1518 springs..

http://wot-tech.com/shop/gm-60v6/val...n/cat_100.html



Installed height (1.7") -Coil bind - .060" (.060-.040, some like to push their luck)

Current 26915's would be 1.7-1.1 =.600- .060= .540 safe lift.

My old 915's specd out a little different, CB was 1.085 instead of 1.1 like the new ones. As always you should have a shop check the spring coil bind, don't rely on the specs they provide.

Thanks for the help and links. Exspecially on what springs I can use and retain the stock seats and retainers. I was a tad confused on which ones I could use with stock hardware.

Ok I got some yellow ls6 springs today off a friend for 20 bucks. I know i need some different seats/seals. So i will be trying to use these instead if they will work. If i do that math right they will handle the lift that my rocker ratio and cam will produce. Under .527 total lift. I can give them back to the guy as he has piles of them. He builds gtps and had a lot of spare springs arround. but if there too much work ill just toss them in the draw or give them back

Got the engine out today and the pistons. Went well. Everything looks as it did one year ago. I sure do like these engines for what they can take when properly tuned

Wait, lemme go stand on my head to get a better view of the pic lol....

Hmm, I see someone is tired of 12's...