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Well I got the camaro running yesterday. There is a few things I would like to change or fix but right now it is okay. I will post some pictures and maybe a video soon. Now to start tuning. Do you guys know of anywhere I could find or search for a bin file that would be a good start for my setup?
I'm using $8D or $88 right now, can't remember off the top of my head. But I would like to go with a $59 mask. It sounds like this would work the best. I'm just having a hard time finding any files.
I found some old 59 code tunes that I used to get the car running. Its seems to run pretty good after adjusting bpc vs egr. what I'm a little confused about is my afr gauge and data log are reading different from each other. I need to make sure it is reading correctly.
Bringing this one back from the dead. I am tonymcc3's brother and have been working on the car with him from day one. I have the car now and am finally getting to the point where i can work on it. Life happened and this project got put on the back burner for both of us. it seemed like every time we revived it, something else would happen to pull one or both of us away from it. So, with a more determined attitude, here we go with round 2.
The car is put together and driveable. it needs new tires and an alignment as we replaced all the steering components. The downpipe is currently bolted to the stock exhaust right where the cat used to be. i have some pipes, a bend kit and a turbo muffler to build the exhaust. we still havent replaced the 90 coupler near the throttle body with a wider sweep but that will be addressed.
The single biggest issue we have had with this setup has been the tune. I have tuned several TBI, TPI, and 5.3s before but this 3.1 was hard. nothing made sense. it ran rich, i pulled fuel, it was perfect. next startup it ran way lean, i went back to previous tune, it ran perfect. temperature affected it more than ive seen. long story short I think the 30lb injectors are 30lbs@57psi. i adjusted this along with fudging the voltage offsets and have finally got it running consistent.
That being said, would any of you guys know where i could get some voltage offset info on bosch injectors? they are ev1 style, orange, 280150785. all my searching has led me to believe they are from a turbo2.3l volvo. some info says 30lbs@57psi(3.93bar) some say 30@3bar.
Also, the car dies instantly when coming to a stop. im guessing an IAC issue. im going to troubleshoot that today.
Another Update. Ive been working on the tune mostly. it runs rich across the board so im lowering my bpc vs EGR constant. it runs extremely rich at idle so i pulled a bit of fuel out in my VE table. I set up my dash in tunerpro to show when it is learning its IAC position. when it would die the IAC was at 0 and wasnt learning. i did a few stops with one foot on the brake and feathering the gas to keep it alive. this helped it until it went into learn mode and could save itself. a few stops like this and the IAC would drop down to 17-20 and no further when stopping. hopefully I dont have to do this with each new tune i throw in.
Another Update. Ive been working on the tune mostly. it runs rich across the board so im lowering my bpc vs EGR constant. it runs extremely rich at idle so i pulled a bit of fuel out in my VE table. I set up my dash in tunerpro to show when it is learning its IAC position. when it would die the IAC was at 0 and wasnt learning. i did a few stops with one foot on the brake and feathering the gas to keep it alive. this helped it until it went into learn mode and could save itself. a few stops like this and the IAC would drop down to 17-20 and no further when stopping. hopefully I dont have to do this with each new tune i throw in.
No you definitly should not have to do a idle relearn each time you flash a chip. I sure didn't for the 6 years I was flashing them. You sure you do not have any vacuum leaks?
What are your iac set points in the bin file? When it's idleing normally what step is the iac at?
I will check for vacuum leaks. This seems very plausible and could explain the slight oil leak coming from the back of the engine. lower intake manifold? i will check the IAC tomorrow if i get a chance. i do recall seeing it at 0 while driving. i'll check the bin too.
I would definitly toss a vac guage in there. Is it the stock cam? You should be pulling at least 18 inches. The iac tables look ok. I had a few problems before but always came back to either a gumed up iac, vac leak, or needing a proper idle relearn.
It dropped a few inches of snow here and has been hovering in the low teens for temps, which set me back a bit. I dont have a vac gauge so i looked at my MAP sensor to see if maybe it would give me an idea. My bin has the "1 or 3 bar map" flag SELECTED. On the 3 bar gauge in Tunerpro it shows im at ~62, which does not seem right. There is a 1 bar gauge and it shows 29. the inches Hg gauge shows nothing and the vac kPa gauge shows ~30. Thoughts?
Also, Does anyone have an idea on how to form the equation to get my wideband to read in tunerpro properly? I see where to change the equation for the gauge but i cant get it to be accurate according to the gauge that the WB came with. It's an APSX if that helps at all.
First which wideband do you have? You can change it in the flags to the one you want and also change the voltages vs afr. Pic below for a reference I used the innovative flag, and the generic table. I really have a diy-2 from 14.7 which imo is the best wideband sensor set up out there for under 250 bucks.
You may have to try different flags or change the table slightly to get the datalog to match your live data on the wideband guage itself.
Also DO NOT pay attention to both the 3 bar and 1 bar readouts. I noticed that too years back when i first started tuning $59. Just look at the 3 bar. Attached is a shot of one log i had of the 1000s i still have saved. 3rd gear yank. 80lbs injectors..lol the duty cycle shows. 375-400hp... not bad for back when i first started tuning the hybrid set up which eventually went 11.20s in the 1/4 mile
Also im sorry i have been slow, but if you need some base tunes or better adx files for logging let me know and i can email them to you. I have 6 years of files so i have alot to choose from. Id post more but for some reason the adx files wont let me upload them on here.
i'll try that for my wideband. the website i got it from has voltage to afr conversion table so i can use that. its called APSX and the website is like wideband .com or something. its an el cheapo i think.
To answer an older question i have a delta 260 cam.
The bin would be much appreciated. mostly for timing comparisons. im not schooled in timing theory for boost yet. as for the adx files, i wouldnt mind seeing what you use.
Long weekend ahead so hopefully i can get out and drive a bit. backroads here are still covered in packed snow though.
i'll try that for my wideband. the website i got it from has voltage to afr conversion table so i can use that. its called APSX and the website is like wideband .com or something. its an el cheapo i think.
To answer an older question i have a delta 260 cam.
The bin would be much appreciated. mostly for timing comparisons. im not schooled in timing theory for boost yet. as for the adx files, i wouldnt mind seeing what you use.
Long weekend ahead so hopefully i can get out and drive a bit. backroads here are still covered in packed snow though.
What all have you done to your car so I can find the best starter bin for you? I also had a delta 260 cam for a bit. Good cam for that 2000-5000rpm area.
Complete engine rebuild. Gapped the piston rings slightly larger, i cant remember what but i think it was recommended for turbo setups by someone here. the heads were lightly ported/touched up, mostly on the exhaust side. the intake manifold is also lightly ported. delta 260 cam with springs that were also recommended for that cam. 30lb injectors. t3/t4 .64/.50 ebay turbo. i have an manual boost control valve thats turned down all the way and i can get like 3 psi. ive been doing this for tuning purposes. it has been turned up to get roughly 14 psi which is where i think id like to eventually run it. all this with a T5 behind it. hope that is descriptive enough. oh, my distributor is set to 10 deg.
Complete engine rebuild. Gapped the piston rings slightly larger, i cant remember what but i think it was recommended for turbo setups by someone here. the heads were lightly ported/touched up, mostly on the exhaust side. the intake manifold is also lightly ported. delta 260 cam with springs that were also recommended for that cam. 30lb injectors. t3/t4 .64/.50 ebay turbo. i have an manual boost control valve thats turned down all the way and i can get like 3 psi. ive been doing this for tuning purposes. it has been turned up to get roughly 14 psi which is where i think id like to eventually run it. all this with a T5 behind it. hope that is descriptive enough. oh, my distributor is set to 10 deg.
ok I'll add a few bin files after work. It'll be made for 28lbs injectors. A delta 260 cam. Dialed in at 14-15psi. It'll be close so you'll have to tweak it. And at one time I had thst same turbo so that helps.
Sorry that i haven't updated in a while. The throw out bearing in my Blazer blew up and I have been focusing on getting that fixed as its my main mode. Its always something.
I really appreciate the help and the starter bins. I will get started on it and update this as soon as I can.
Looking at the base tune you have there and my current tune I see that our EGR injector constants are 98 vs. 114. My VE table is about twice as high as yours though. looking even further, my injector constants are quite a bit lower than your values. Keep in mind im running very rich at idle. Im going to look into this and compare the tunes. I tried your tune yesterday but the car wouldnt even start. the battery is a little weak so im attributing it to that for now. will update later today.
Looking at the base tune you have there and my current tune I see that our EGR injector constants are 98 vs. 114. My VE table is about twice as high as yours though. looking even further, my injector constants are quite a bit lower than your values. Keep in mind im running very rich at idle. Im going to look into this and compare the tunes. I tried your tune yesterday but the car wouldnt even start. the battery is a little weak so im attributing it to that for now. will update later today.
that bin I linked up there was for 48lbs. Injectors. I would multiply all the main ve cells by .59 percent... x. 59
Or if you can wait I will post a fixed bin for you tonight after work. 4-6pm eastern time.
I forgot to add some bin files for you 28lbs Injectors. So I can do that tonight and it should help.
Attatched is the bin file that got me to run a 12.88@104mph on 15ish of boost. I changed the F28 table so you are fueled up for 30lbs injectors instead of the 48s i had at the time. So this file should be a better base tune then that last one i linked, as for fueling.
Just please be careful if you go into boost watch the AFRs and knock retard. I know this tune was a bit strong but was safe for me, that doesnt mean that it will be safe for you. So take your time and dial it in as you need to. I can say that this tune should idle very good, and normal driving should be very good as well. If not you may have some other issues going on else then the tune.
Thanks for the starter Bin. I will try it out and as always be very careful at first with it. I think i got mine running pretty good. I am noticing that it will run great for a while then get hot and start running a little lean. Not a huge issue yet but if when i end up driving it more i want that to stop.
Today i spent some much needed time on the exhaust. i still had the stock exhaust bolted up about 3 feet past the turbo. I should have it almost finished tomorrow.
Got the exhaust done. looks and sounds great. just used a high flow cat and a Thrush turbo muffler. 2.5" all the way back.
I hit another setback though. I had to order another Burn2 from moates as I dropped mine for the final time. I'll update as soon as i get to tuning again. although with the new exhaust it seemed to breathe quite a bit easier on the short trip around the block.
I will post videos soon. Im getting it registered this coming week along with an alignment. switching from an automatic to a manual must have thrown off the front end quite a bit more than i thought. Even though i think ive got my tune down pretty good Im still working on it but confident that it wont leave me stranded. having the car registered and insured will make me more ok with taking it for a long drive and get a good data log. already it feels comparable to my old LS1 firebird. hard to say apples to apples because i sold it 4 months ago but regardless, it feels fast and fun. The larger exhaust really woke it up.
I will post videos soon. Im getting it registered this coming week along with an alignment. switching from an automatic to a manual must have thrown off the front end quite a bit more than i thought. Even though i think ive got my tune down pretty good Im still working on it but confident that it wont leave me stranded. having the car registered and insured will make me more ok with taking it for a long drive and get a good data log. already it feels comparable to my old LS1 firebird. hard to say apples to apples because i sold it 4 months ago but regardless, it feels fast and fun. The larger exhaust really woke it up.
I'm sure the exhaust helped. I remember when I first tossed a 3 inch cut out on my exhaust. It was 3 inch back to a muffler then 2 2 1/2 pipes out of the muffler. When i would uncork the cutout which was by the passenger floor.. basically took place of the cat converter, I could pick up 2-3 tenths in the 1/4 mile and a easy 3 4 mph at the top of the track. This was when I had the 3.1 3100 66mm turbo hybrid v6. That loss of back pressure sure does wake up a turbo car. I had to always tune it for the cut out off. The afrs would go lean with the less restriction of exhaust. Roughly .2 - .4 in my case.
Have fun with the car!!! Let me know if you need any help with the tune!
Sorry i havent updated in a while. Ive been driving the car to work and back to work on the tune. it gets better everyday. my main problem with it is im lazy and havent fixed up my wideband O2 to read properly when datalogging. It runs great until it "heats" up, not warms up, then it starts getting lean. Im trying to offset this using the MAT table that adjusts fuel based off temp. forgot the name of it. also there is a large stumble when i stomp on it. I think there is an AE table to adjust but havent looked into this issue too much yet.
My main concern with the car is heat. Turbos produce tons of it. my headers and down pipe are wrapped in El Cheapo header wrap. DONT DO THIS. it works but dont. My Blazers headers are wrapped with titanium DEI wrap and its a huge difference. buy the good stuff. you can almost grab the DEI wrapped pipes, not a chance with the cheap stuff. The turbo blanket also helped. lastly, i removed the seal at the back of the hood. This made more of a difference than i thought it would, might not be advisable in wet conditions but it did work. As far as coolant temps go I dont have a problem and keep the fans at 185ish. An oil cooler may be in my future.
Fasteddi, tuning question. I noticed my MPH in tunerpro wasnt responding. i compared it to your tune and you had magnetic vss checked. i tried that and the tunerpro gauge was active but doubled my MPH. 65 on my gauge was like 154mph in tunerpro. This did funky IAC things that wrecked drivability. I think the trans is a manual from a 94 camaro v6. any thoughts on this? should i have magnetic vss checked and adjust some other constant?
If you're running hot, especially at idle and cruise, you may not have enough timing. retarded timing will cause an engine to run hot. You can throw all the fuel you want at the engine and it will make little difference and just waste fuel if the timing is too retarded, or sometimes too advanced, but that usually comes with other symptoms.
You may have to adjust the IP pulse divisor or another parameter I can't think of the name of right now to get the vehicle speed to read correctly.
So awesome to see you're keeping at this project over so many years, reminds me of my first car I had, an '87 Cavalier Z-24, that for a little while I hoped(dreamed) to swap the turbo 3.1L from a ASC/McLaren Grand Prix. Speaking of multi year builds I need to show my own project some love.
Fasteddi, tuning question. I noticed my MPH in tunerpro wasnt responding. i compared it to your tune and you had magnetic vss checked. i tried that and the tunerpro gauge was active but doubled my MPH. 65 on my gauge was like 154mph in tunerpro. This did funky IAC things that wrecked drivability. I think the trans is a manual from a 94 camaro v6. any thoughts on this? should i have magnetic vss checked and adjust some other constant?
I agree with 6. You'll have to change the pulse per mile to match what you have going on. Tire size and rear end ratio. I had 26 inch tall tires and 3.73 gears. Take some times to dial it in correctly. I'm sure there is some sort of math equation to figure it out. Your guage mph is a constant. Something you can not change. So get your data log to match it.
as for the iac... what is the command steps at a hot idle? And what is it's position?
I will look at the hot idle commanded iac later today. Playing around with the pulse divisor I changed it from 1974 up to 4000 because I know that's a common gm pulse per mile and was about double my original number. I didn't have much time so a quick trip around the block and it seemed to be on within one or two mph. I will dial it in. I've learned from past tuning mistakes that the computer MUST know how fast the vehicle is going, especially at like 5mph and lower. Thanks for the help guys.
Hot idle commanded IAC is showing 0 and actual IAC shows 0 as well. If i remember right, on a TBI system you wanted at least a few steps. Are these v6s the same or is 0 alright? With the pu/mi adjusted to 4000 Im right on at 65mph and everywhere below that. thanks for the help there. Adjusting that did fix the IAC weirdness.
I got to thinking about what sixshooter said about heat and timing and looked at all my timing stuff. my spark reference angle is at zero but i know i set my timing with the plug removed to 9-10degrees. This would put everything advanced 10 degrees. *%*$@$!!!! How was I even running? If this is the case im sure im going to have to un-mutilate my VE table and possibly start over at square one.
Fasteddi, i tried your 12.88 bin and for some reason it wont stay running. ill try adjusting the injector constant until i can at least get and AFR.
Hot idle commanded IAC is showing 0 and actual IAC shows 0 as well. If i remember right, on a TBI system you wanted at least a few steps. Are these v6s the same or is 0 alright? With the pu/mi adjusted to 4000 Im right on at 65mph and everywhere below that. thanks for the help there. Adjusting that did fix the IAC weirdness.
I got to thinking about what sixshooter said about heat and timing and looked at all my timing stuff. my spark reference angle is at zero but i know i set my timing with the plug removed to 9-10degrees. This would put everything advanced 10 degrees. *%*$@$!!!! How was I even running? If this is the case im sure im going to have to un-mutilate my VE table and possibly start over at square one.
Fasteddi, i tried your 12.88 bin and for some reason it wont stay running. ill try adjusting the injector constant until i can at least get and AFR.
have you hooked a vac guage up and see what vacuum it pulls at a hot idle? If so what was it? Either a vac leak or a few other things can command a very low iac to get the idle speed down to what it wants. Feel free to post a excell datalog on here forus to look at.
You want the base timing or spark angle at what ever you have for a base 10 degrees or what not. Ill look at the bin tonight after work. Make sure the chip is seated right. I don't know how many times I put in in wrong and it will go on limp home mode which will make it incredibly rich when having larger then stock injectors. Also what was the file size of the bin? Some times it can get goofed up after emailing it or linking it.
Looks like im getting 13-14" at hot idle. ive checked everywhere for a vacuum leak and cant seem to find one. I got the IAC to command 35 steps at a hot idle by adjusting the throttle blade. it looks like it was opened up quite a bit.
i finally got your tune to work after adjusting the bpw vs egr and doubling the VE table. i know the chip was tuned and seated properly because i always watch for the "check engine" light to blink twice on key up before starting.
By adjusting the spark reference angle to match my actual set timing I think i fixed alot of underlying problems.
Looks like im getting 13-14" at hot idle. ive checked everywhere for a vacuum leak and cant seem to find one. I got the IAC to command 35 steps at a hot idle by adjusting the throttle blade. it looks like it was opened up quite a bit.
i finally got your tune to work after adjusting the bpw vs egr and doubling the VE table. i know the chip was tuned and seated properly because i always watch for the "check engine" light to blink twice on key up before starting.
By adjusting the spark reference angle to match my actual set timing I think i fixed alot of underlying problems.
Good to hear. I'd till be weary of a vac leak somewhere as 13 14 inches of vac at a hot idle is a bit low.. is it in gear as well? My delta 260 pulled 18 or so and the bigger 270 was still 15/16 inches. But my rpm was commanded to 850 so that may be why mine was higher. Idle rpm does alot to vac readings so does timing.
Can't wait to see how your engine turns out. Glad the pwm got sorted out. I find it hard to believe you had to double the ve table though. Mabey i never changed it from my big injectors..... although i thought i did. What's the highest ve number you have for say 14.7psi at 5400rpm or 200kpa? Like 60-70?
Here is the bin I have been working on. Ive got it running pretty good but just a little rich. I have a manual boost valve adjusted to max me out at 14psi.
Although it has been running great im pretty annoyed with the injectors and how loud they are. They are supposedly off a volvo turbo engine and have been cleaned up. If i were to switch to something that i could trust a bit more, what would you guys recommend? Are the green giants easy to work with? Id hate to go too big and have it idle like crap because I am planning on driving this car alot.
Also i havent forgotten about the video. i will get one in the next week or two.
Here is an update. Sorry, no video. while tuning i got the car running really well but once it would heat up it would go way lean. if i drove 30-40 minutes then parked for 5, when i started it up it would barely run. The car one day stopped doing this and started losing power and going rich. a few days ago while driving home it maxed out the AFR gauge at 9.0 AFR and lost power big time. after i parked it it would not start. it smells like its dumping fuel out the exhaust when i try. Im about ready to tear it out and drop a 5.3 in it.
Here is an update. Sorry, no video. while tuning i got the car running really well but once it would heat up it would go way lean. if i drove 30-40 minutes then parked for 5, when i started it up it would barely run. The car one day stopped doing this and started losing power and going rich. a few days ago while driving home it maxed out the AFR gauge at 9.0 AFR and lost power big time. after i parked it it would not start. it smells like its dumping fuel out the exhaust when i try. Im about ready to tear it out and drop a 5.3 in it.
Sometimes the chip can get zapped from static intermittently and cause that problem at least with the rich fuel mixture, try to reburn a chip and see if it starts right. I wish you lived closer to me, I could get you dialed in. Hard to help over then net when it comes to cars.
If you do anything just throw a small block Chevy in their I am running 10.70s@125mph in the quarter mile and it's just a gen 1 385 small block Chevy all motor still a streetcar. Heck with ls... took me about 12 hrs to swap from the turbo v6 to the sbc.
It is quite seem to find a nice mild 383 stroker nowadays. I bought mine for 2000 bucks carb to pan last year and it ran mid elevens in the quarter mile. And worked great on the highway. After doing some modifications over this fall I dropped a second off my time running mid 10s now. A 1979 block lol
I tore into the engine today. Did a compression test and they all came out at 165-170. Regapped the plugs. Still ran way rich, so I pulled the injectors. When I flipped the rail over with the injectors still in it one of the injectors spewed fuel out at me. Looks like the injectors were leaking fuel out the tip like they were open. I replaced them with the old injectors to see if I could at least get it to run on a stock tune. Once assembled I checked for leaks and found that the fuel pressure test fitting was leaking too. ??? What would cause this? Too much fuel pressure?
If you do anything just throw a small block Chevy in their I am running 10.70s@125mph in the quarter mile and it's just a gen 1 385 small block Chevy all motor still a streetcar. Heck with ls... took me about 12 hrs to swap from the turbo v6 to the sbc.
It is quite seem to find a nice mild 383 stroker nowadays. I bought mine for 2000 bucks carb to pan last year and it ran mid elevens in the quarter mile. And worked great on the highway. After doing some modifications over this fall I dropped a second off my time running mid 10s now. A 1979 block lol
03-29-2015, 02:03 PM
