Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

I guess it is about time to start my build thread. I have been debating where to put it. I figured I will get more 3800 help here vs. the turbo forum. The build is going to be slow as I have two kids and a stay at home wife.

The build is going to be very budget based. I am looking to have around $2K into it with a engine, turbo, transmission, computer, wiring, etc. Lets get rolling.

Engine will be a L36 with stock 4th gen intake. I am going to be using 60lb injectors and a single Walbro 255 pump, to start. I will be eventually going to a dual Walbro setup in the near future.




Turbo is a cheapy eBay setup.




Computer is going to be a Megasquirt II.




Transmission will be a 4th gen M49 T5.



Clutch will be a Spec Stage 3 with aluminum flywheel.



Hot side is going to consist of passenger side factory manifolds, one flipped, into 2" and a T3/T4 flange.



It will then be a 3" downpipe into my mandrel bent 2.75" catback.

Cold side will consist of the largest bar & fin 2.5" in/out intercooler I can get.

Wastegate is a Turbonetics unit that I am currently working on figuring out how to remove from the really badly made headers.

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

The BOV has yet to be purchased, but I will be running an eBay one from wyntonm. It will probably be in the 44mm range.

Here are some of the other random photos I have. The next post will be about my car.

Motor mounts.




Oil pan



Oil lines and fuel lines to connect the factory main lines to the 3800 fuel rails.

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

Car is an '89 IROC that just turned 100K miles. I am the second owner of the car and I bought it in '96 with 48K miles on it. It was a 305TPI 5 speed that served me well. Over the years I have focused solely on the suspension with steering rebuild, new a-arm bushings, adj. strut tower mounts, Koni struts, STB, adj. TA, aluminum driveshaft, '00 TA rearend with LS1 rear brakes, adj lca, adj phb, cut springs, 10 spoke SS wheels with 275 tires, LS master cylinder, and I think that is pretty much it.

Waiting to be installed with this engine swap are Koni shocks, PHB relocation bracket, and subframe connectors.

Here is the car before strip down.



Waiting to be pulled apart.



After first day of tear down.



Engine gone.



K-member cleaned and painted.



Air box gone.



AC starting to be removed.



And gone. I have a non-AC box I will be putting in its place.



As I said earlier I am going with the 4th gen T5. Here are some before and after shots of the cleaning job I did on it.




And this is the harness about to be pulled out.



That brings me up to date with the project. As I said I am on a poor mans budget and will probably not have the car put together before the end of this year, but I have parts to keep me moving forward. The first major hurdle I have to figure out is the brake line that runs across the k-member. It is directly in the path of the motor mounts and I am thinking I will have to move it to the back side of the k-member. Not sure if I am going to buy new stuff or just try to re-bend what is already there.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

When I swapped a V8 in mine, I had to move the brake line too. Use gentle persuasion and it will move out of the way and bolt up where the V8 line does. Mine was actually in good shape since it was covered in oil/dirt for so long lol. Just very gently bend it as little as possible until it fits where it needs to. Everything is looking good so far, good luck!!!

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I am loving it! Subscribed...

project89

iTrader: (1)

swap that ebay turbo for a ebay gt3582 for 220 bucks , that turbo u have now is the same one fasteddi used on his 3.1 its a really good turbo for a 2.8 , but on his 3.1 it maxed out real fast, on 3.8L it wont be good at all

also dont get a wyntom bov , get the 32$ ebay rfl bov it flows much more air

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

subscribing

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the tip. I am actually coming from a V8, so I have to move to a V6 location. I just talked to someone else that has done this swap and that is exactly what they said. If I get time tonight I will be doing that. I should then be able to get the motor in this weekend and possibly even wire it up.

Thanks. I am looking forward to finishing it up.

Thanks for the tip on the BOV. I will look them up.

I would love to upgrade the turbo, but as stated being a budget build I really want to just get it up and running and if I were to go to another turbo it would be just that much longer to finish the build. I know that this motor could take quite a bit more turbo than what I am providing and it will get that, eventually. Right now I am looking at anything over 300hp to start. I will then move the boost up to about 20lbs and see what it puts down. Once that is done I should be able to save enough money up to upgrade the turbo and build from there.

My goal with this car is not max power or quarter mile times. It will be a weekend warrior and road track car. I want the power and torque curve to be table top flat with a peak near 5000-5200 with a shift point of 5700.

project89

iTrader: (1)

dont try that turbo at 20 psi it will only blow hot air
it should be good for about 12-13 psi on the 3.8 and thats it , u might get 15 psi out of it but im sure it will be so inefficiant by then it wont be worth cranking up that high

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

With that same turbo my car did not go faster or use any more fuel when at high boost. The max I would sugest to run that turbo is arround 14psi. After that it just blows very very hot air.

I like yout build. Im sure thay turbo you have will do fine for your start up. Just keep a eye on intake temps and you datalogs to see when its at its max.

AutoRoc

iTrader: (1)

GREAT looking car! You have all of your ducks in a row, that's half the battle.

keep at it! It should get better gas mileage???? Tell the warden that!

willexoIX

Awesome car and I am definitely subscribing. Its nice to see another v6 turbo on the forums. Looks like the v6 turbo bug is finally infecting more people, lol.

Looking forward to seeing your build come together!

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

a L-36 3800 can be split in half ..... I don't know what caused it. I bought the 97 firebird with the engine like this. It never had boost, or sprayed or raced.





Not staged, pieces were in pan when removed





piston was not siezed when removed, slid right out. Engine ran in this state just knocked bad. Even had good oil pressure go figure. No other history is known of the motor. But had 137k miles.

liquidh8

Nice, subscribed. I have seen a few 3800 series II turbo builds. Have fun and keep us posted!

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the vote of confidence, guys. Doubt this build will get better gas mileage than my 305. I was getting in the neighborhood of 30+ mpg on the highway. That and my DD is a new Cruze, so I get between 32-35 mpg.

I was going to go with a 109 block (Buick 3.8), but the cost was astronomical and with two purchases for less than $500 out of pocket I have what you see above. I did recoup a lot of my cost with the sale of my TPI and transmission. But as stated, I plan on being around $2K for total investment.

Thanks for the tips on the turbo. I will watch IATs to make sure they stay in check. Hopefully by the end of the weekend I will see what it will look like under the hood.

willexoIX

I have to say it; If you posted this where the V8 guys lurk on this forum, they would have a heart attack! LOL!

Pulling a v8 to swap in a v6, I love it! Most would flame you for this but not I.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

honestly i was shocked but 3.8s and most of the v6 builds i see on this site are badass. im a v8 guy but if one of yall built me a v6 car id take it and not look back. those of you who know what your doing have some pretty awesome respectable builds and def gave me a different outlook on the 6's

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Too funny. I'm building a Stage II Buick V6 on the side myself after the 305 goes kapoot, and the cost is about triple of what a normal 109 block cost would be, which is why I am taking my time and nursing it. Got a set of legitimate twin turbo headers for the Stage II as well, just need to convince my buddy Paul to sell them to me lol. Lots of Buick guys are going the same 3800 route as you, albeit stalled 200R4. I think you made a very solid choice and am looking forward to your progress. By the way your turbo is fine. My buddy just went 10.8x with a teeny weeny T49 turbo, you'll be fine with yours.

Fallen2603

Imagine posting an engine swap thread where you're replacing a V8 with a turbocharged four-cylinder where most of the V8 guys are. Not my best idea...

Good luck with your build OP. Will definitely be watching this.

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

The post that put me over the top was this GN guy going to the 3800 block. (http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/thr...tional.257876/) I then decided the 109 was not for me and I would be able to get to my end goal of around 600whp for a whole lot cheaper. I had been throwing around the 5.3 and had it all planned out, but again it was going to be a whole lot more expensive and I would not have been FI.

Not really picture worthy, but I have the brake line moved and ready to go. I went to put in the motor mounts, but my meat hook hands did not allow me to get behind the a-arms and put in the nut and washer. Hopefully, I will have my friend with more dainty hands come over and work it out. Otherwise I am going to have to drop the rear of the a-arm or cut a large hole in the k-member to get them in. If he is able to get over this weekend I should have photos of the block mounted up by Monday.

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

Could you provide a link to one of these BOVs you are talking about. I tried to look for them, but not really sure it is what you are talking about.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

This:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TYPE-H-RFL-RED-BOV-TURBOCHARGER-TURBO-ALUMINUM-BLOW-OFF-VALVE-25-PSI-OF-BOOST-/170722188409?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27bfd5dc79&vxp=mtr
Or something like it as there is 1000's of them on ebay.

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

Damn it, I was hoping it wasn't that one. That this is pretty ugly. I know I need to look at function over form, but I also want form to be a part of what I am building.

With the joys of fatherhood taking over this past weekend I was not able to get to the car at all. I was however able to wrench for about 30 minutes last night and got the driver's side motor mount on. Tonight I will get the other one on as well as prep the engine to drop it in, injectors, pan, clutch/flywheel, etc.

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

Laziness kicked in and I didn't do as much as I wanted to, but here are a few pictures. The mounts are in and the passenger side pedestal is on. The drive's side needs some modifications to make it fit around the knock sensor. I should be able to at least do that tonight.

Yes the pictures suck.

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

Driver's side pedestal is on and tightened down. 60lb injectors with modified fuel rail have been mounted and the fuel lines have been mounted. I was going to put the oil pan on, but I found out the oil pan gasket is not reusable so I am going to order that along with new plugs. So dropping the motor in this weekend is out. I will try to move onto other pieces in the meantime.

survivorcamaro

[QUOTE=Drkhrse89;5732733]The BOV has yet to be purchased, but I will be running an eBay one from wyntonm. It will probably be in the 44mm range.

Here are some of the other random photos I have. The next post will be about my car.

Motor mounts.




Did you make those mounts yourself? If so can we get schematics for them? If not where did you buy them?

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

No, I did not make them myself. I was going to, but lucked out and bought them from someone parting out his 3800 build. If I get some time I will take some measurements for you and post them.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

Just curious, why turbo charge and not run a FWD supercharger?

Fallen2603

I'm guessing he's going turbocharged because to use the FWD supercharger set-up in a RWD configuration would require cutting up the firewall or serious modification of the supercharger's body to make everything fit. Something like what this guy did could make it fit...

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/thr...f-bird.352126/

But turbocharging is probably easier for the OP.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

I saw a 4th gen guy do it with no firewall mods

Fallen2603

Was he able to complete the install without modifying either the supercharger itself or the firewall? I'd be interested in knowing how he did that...

However, what works in a fourth-gen might not work in third-gen.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

No, he made a elbow on back and brought throttle body on passenger side real slick setup

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

not mine but you get the idea

Fallen2603

Looks like the exact same concept as the thread I posted. Not necessarily an easy process. The cut would have to be pretty precise, requiring a machine shop, and someone who really knows his **** when welding aluminum. Could be pricey. Also, you're still pretty restricted by that M90 supercharger. Hitting 400WHP would be difficult on pump gas. Almost any power level is an option when turbocharging.

project89

iTrader: (1)

thats a full 3800 supercharged swap, its a stock engine
if u want to mount a m90 or 62 on a 60* take off the top plenum build a pizza box intake with no tb and mount the supercharger to the lid

Fallen2603

Yes, usually they are stock L67's since there are so many similarities between the L36 and the L67. Some people have done some of the basic bolt-on's though.

I'd rather remote-mount the supercharger and run an FMIC, but I'm crazy like that.

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, I don't get on the internet at night. Fallen2603 is correct, I am going turbo for ease. I know the guy in the link and talked to him extensively about his build and the work he did is what ultimately made my decision. I am not that mechanically inclined and this L36/Turbo combo was too good of a price to pass up.

The oil pan gasket should be here by Thursday and the wife and kids are gone all weekend long, so I should be able to get a ton done. Hopefully Monday I will have a substantial update.

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

Engine is in it's final resting spot. Took a little bit of work to get it in, but it is done. It is crazy just how far back this thing sits. The only thing in front of the k-member are the accessories. Next step in the process will be getting the transmission in and then moving onto the turbo fab.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

you should ditch those heater core line fittings and go with this style, they are found on FWD gm cars or off the bay.

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

I like that one. Is that the entire tenssioner pulley setup or just the lines? There are plenty of 3800 in the yard close to me, so I will have to take a trip to get one.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

No, the fittings simply fit where the plasti-junk ones did (you don't have to replace tensioner), then they are secured with a bolt.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

aluminum elbows to replace junky plastic ones

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-HEATER-HOSE-ELBOWS-CAMARO-FIREBIRD-GRAND-PRIX-3-8L-REPLACES-PLASTIC-/231198051743?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35d47a4d9f&vxp=mtr
here are the heater hose fittings

http://www.ebay.com/itm/95-02-3-8L-V6-Camaro-Firebird-Heater-Hose-Repair-Fitting-Kit-/121313584416?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ACamaro&hash=item1c3eda6520&vxp=mtr

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

Thanks a ton for the heads up. I have seen those, but never researched why they were suggested to be replaced.

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

Trans should be going in next weekend, if I get the master in time. Above is my remote bleeder I pieced together. The slave will be here tomorrow. Then I will be able to start playing with turbo placement etc.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

had I known you had a 5 speed would have offered you my new slave that I bought and car didn't need it.

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

Damn. Yup, I am running the 4th gen M49 T5. I am going to be picking up the pilot bearing tonight and trying to get that put in. I am having a hard time getting a clutch master for a decent price. I just cannot afford a new cylinder with clutch line. Out of the the question from a price stand point.

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

The pilot bearing was just about the death of me. All of the reading I did said it was a bearing, so I went and picked one up that has been associated with manual transmissions for YEARS. Well it didn't fit, so back to the internets. Searched for two days trying to dig something up and I couldn't so I enlisted the help of a friend. He found the needles that went into the bearing but couldn't find the bearing.

I then find one little snippet on the interwebs that tells me the M49 T5 uses a bushing and not a bearing. I then come across a part number. Looking at all local parts stores only one of them had that part online, which seemed a little odd to me. After swinging by there last night I was in business.

My 5 year old son helping me install said bushing.



He almost got the thing completely in. I had to tap it a few times with a mallet to get it completely seated.

Installed.



I then turned my attention to my transmission. I received the slave, master, and clutch line in the mail in the past two days, so on they went.





Tonight I am hopefully going to mount up the SPEC clutch and flywheel and get the transmission under the car. I am going to need a second set of hands to get the transmission up and in, so that is going to have to wait for another day.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

be very careful with the series2 flywheel it can actually go on in a couple positions. I had that happen on mine.

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

What do you mean? I am going to be doing some reading on it shortly, but if you have insight I would greatly appreciate it.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

well it can go on in like 2 different positions, you have to look very close at the holes they can be off just a bit and will still thread in which makes it hard.

been there done that and massive vibration

You also have to use a torque angle wrench to torque the bolts correctly