Hey guys, new to the this forum but before you slam me for creating a new thread I attempted to search and came up with nothing. Well I bought my first f body after owning multiple 4x4s and imports. 1986 Camaro Berlinetta 2.8l FI 5spd! Picked her up for 900, bodys straight and she only had 210,000km so i figured its healthy enough to drive as a daily until i save up for a LT swap. The v6 pulls harder than I expected but still gutless and lord knows a SBC would do ti justice. Enough rambling, she doesnt like to run when cold, takes forever to warm up but i contribute that to the fact there is no thermostat which will be installed this weekend when i get some time. It has a bit of a misfire, and my tune up made it a little better but still smells a bit rich. I changed the sparkplugs, wires, distributor, cap&rotor, IAC, air filter and ran some seafoam through it. Which obviously only leaves me with a few things. I pulled apart the intake cleaned the MAF the best a could only to realize when i unplugged it the motor didn't bat an eye. So i plugged it back in nothing changed.. Now correct me if I am wrong but every other vehicle I have owned the car wouldn't even run without a MAF. Is there a way to test them, and if its toast how should i go about replacing it. IE. Junkyard, Manufactured or a Genuine GM MAF.

Thankyou for reading, hope I am not beating a dead horse with another idling thread.

 

Your MAF is most likely dead, you'll wanna inspect the FPR, and if you haven't install a new fuel filter.

 

I'd do some work to be sure what the problem is before even thinking about buying replacement parts. For all you know the MAF is fine and there's a wiring or connector problem.

Unplug the battery and re-set the ECM. Verify the "Check Engine" light is working as it should at start-up. If the ECM doesn't work properly at this point - replace the ECM or correct the ECM related problem.

Start/ Run / shut off the engine (with the MAF connected) a bunch of times so any trouble codes get set in the ECM.

What codes are displayed by the ECM ??


Disconnect the MAF and run the car a couple more times......

What codes are displayed by the ECM ??

 

Welcome to the forum !

As to your car ;

It will NEVER idle correctly till you replace that thermostat !

Untill the ECM sees proper coolant operating temperature , it runs in "open loop" , and I'm not so certain which sensors are even actively managing fuel/air ratios till "closed loop" is attained . The O2 sensor , for one , is being circumvented by preset values till closed loop operation .

The bottom line is , till you get it up to proper operating temp with a correct thermostat , ALL other troubleshooting will be fruitless at best and misdirected at worst .....

 

Thankyou guys for the replies! I will be installing a thermostat this weekend, I've read 180 is my best bet. The ecm seems to be working fine as it flashes the check engine light on start up, only to come on after 10 minutes of idling. How would I go about reading the codes? I'd imagine it's similar to others of its era, my best guess would be using a jump wire but insight would be best! Thankyou for the ideas I will be sure to check for codes. I have inspected all the wiring as I'm an electrician.

 

Your not gonna make this easy , eh ?

If you want this car to run right , there are only two paths you can follow .....

Path 1 ; Return the car to it's BONE STOCK , AS BUILT CONDITION ! This means everything exactly as it left the factory . No thermostats that make the engine run 20 degrees colder than design temp , no hacking of emissions control equipment (Hell , EGR really IS a secret govt plot to spy on your neighbor's wife's tailpipe , right ?) , and no other "modifications" that cause the ECM to see sensor readings not consistent with as built , as designed levels ! If the ECM "thinks" the engine is running colder than designed proper operating temperature , don't ya think it's gonna keep on enriching the air/fuel ratio till it "sees" the engine has reached the proper warmed up coolant temp ? (Which , of course , with the wrong thermostat , it never would) It's as though your driving around with the choke of a carb car half closed all the time , you bet it's gonna run rich !

OR

Path 2 ; Build the engine up to be a total rocketship screamin Demon with headers , cam , pistons and heads all as suggested by the "in the know" guys around here who routinely build up these sixes to truly impressive power levels , BUT , with the addition of an ECM system that you can TUNE to take advantage of all the great go fast goodies ya built it up with . A few haphazzardly slapped around performance parts without the corresponding ECM tuning will make your car slower , and not give any justice to the $$$ you'll spend .

Remember , if all your looking for is a bit more zip , these sixes can be built up to some serious power , and have a better front/rear weight distribution in the car (car handles better without as much a tendency for the butt to kick out on hard corners) than the eight cyl models do . Any mods you make , any at all , simply must be part of a total system and plan for more power that takes into account all the factors needed to take maximum advantage of those modifications .

I hope I've given you something to think about WRT mods and the right way to go about attaining more power

 

I don't find I'm being difficult at all, I just found in my reading people were using 180 thermostats. If a stock thermostat is 200 then I will use it. No plans of making power with a v6. If it's not an inline, or at least a big v6 it's not worth it. Now if somebody wants to hand me a GNX 3.8T or a 1jzgte. Different story.

 

It's likely closer to 195 , but either way , go with as built if you plan no tuning . As to the engine size thing , your 100% correct that few build up the 2.8 , but did you know the 3.4 from the early fourth gen is a direct bolt in ? A modded 3.4 would likely give all the oomph your looking for without the whole 8 cyl conversion hassle . Do you know even your front springs would need to be changed for the 8 ? Yep , take out a 6 and put in an 8 and the front end WILL bottom out as the original springs are designed to work with the 6 cyl's weight and not the heavier 8 ...

 

Thankyou everybody for the input. I installed a new thermostat, and ran some seafoam through the brake booster. Seems to run much better now. Broke my temp sensor, installed a guage and then my fan would stay on constantly, so I wired it to a switch. Chances are I will be replacing the sending unit because with my luck that v6 will
blow on a warm day when I forgot to turn the fan on. Now, for the original issue the maf. Any tips on reading values or how to read the ecm codes? I found one on ricks camaros for 70$ seems fair. Also to address the 3.4, I can't justify swapping for another v6. I didn't buy a pony car to not pump 8 cylinders, I just want to go the 350 4bbl route. Low maitenance, probably pair it with a 700r4, regear and shred tires. If I wanted to drive a v6 Id buy another import, everybody knows inline are better.

 

Operating temperature vs power and longevity
http://www.carnut.com/ramblin/_cool3.html

 

I bought an 85 V6 Camaro with a bad MAF. It wouldn't idle at all until I unplugged the MAF.

If you unplug the MAF, the check engine light should immediately come on. What happens with the MAF unplugged is that the ECM goes into a backup 'limp home' fueling mode called alpha-N (basically it uses throttle position vs. RPM to calculate fueling requirements). It's much less accurate and will probably run rich in this mode but should still run reasonable well. I know mine did.

 

Thankyou guys for all the responses! I've never had this much help from a forum! Glad chevy guys are here to help! One last question! I removed my temp sensor to install an aftermarket temp guage. Just out of curiosity to see how hot my the motor was getting. Of course my car didn't like that one bit and of course I broke the sensor.. The fan ran 100% the time so I ran it to a switch for the time being. When I go to reinstall the sensor, is there anywhere I can plumb my temp sensor? The sensor to the right of the temp sensor, could that possibly just be a lead for my guage? Typical 3rd gen with shitty guages.

 

does the AC work? Once I removed the AC rad I got enough air that the fan never needed to run unless at a long line at bank or something. Why mine is on a switch. Long as its moving, I get plenty of air to keep temps well under 200f.

And Im a BOP GMC guy

 

I don't have air conditioning, but normally if I keep it moving it stays around 180-190. Only time it climbs to 200 is waiting in a drive thru which I tend to avoid.