I have a 1989 Firebird with a 2.8l in it. The car ran like crap the other day when I purchased the car. Guy who sold it to me said it needed to be put in timing correctly. I have been trying to get it to run for the past 4 days and am at a lose now. I have put it at TDC numerous times and cannot get it to fire. I do get spark and it does get fuel. And has no codes except code 12. Any suggestions??? Attached are pictures of where the balancer and the distributor are currently sitting at, which from what I was told is TDC.

 

I also noticed this yellow mark on the balancer but have no clue what in the world it is for...

 

Hi, do you have a timing light ? And do you have a manual ?

 

Yes I have a timing light and it has the 700r4 automatic transmission in the vehicle. Can't get it to run to try the timing light though.

 

If you're getting spark and getting fuel, you must not be setting TDC right. On my 2.8 it was SUPER easy to set-

(Make sure you disconnect the cable running from the Ignition Coil to the Dist. first just in case )
Standing in front of the car and looking towards the engine, the first cylinder on the left is your #1 cylinder. Take off the spark plug and put a finger over the hole, then turn the engine over manually with a wrench until you feel air blowing against it. Look down and align the gap in the middle of the 2 white stripes with 0 on the timing tab.

I think you're doing that part correctly, but where I think you're messing up is aligning the distributor right. You need to trace the spark plug wire from your #1 cylinder and see which post on the distributor it plugs into. You need to align the distributor so that the cap is facing/contacting this post. Now that you have the timing mark at 0, you can just loosen the distributor retaining bolt and turn the base of the distributor (not the rotor itself) so that the cap is lined up perfect with this post.

One trick I use that makes this super easy- I put my #1 plug wire to the post on the distributor cap that's directly over the middle of the ICM-that way I can align the base of the distributor so that the rotor is facing the dead middle of the ICM and know that it's contacting my #1 post.

After this just make sure your plug wires are in order on the dist, it's really simple on our cars, the order is 1-2-3-4-5-6! Use this diagram
Put your cap back on, re-connect the wire from the ignition coil to the center, and fire 'er up!




Good luck and post back with how it goes!

 

Remember the number 1 wire is on the passengers side of our V6 engine. Also there are two TDC. One is exhaust stroke and the other compression. I use a compression test to make sure the engine is on the compression stroke.Another way is to pull the plug and a finger over the hole while cranking the engine.

A friend of mine replaced a distributor and put in 180 degrees of and the 4 cylinder BMW still ran but had no power to accelerate. Ran good once the distributor was installed in the correct position.

If setting the timing does get it to start try a little starter spray in case the issue is low fuel pressure or old bad gas. Remove the hose from the power brake booster and spray into the plenum. Replace hose and crank engine. There is a test port in rear of engine to connect a fuel pressure gauge.

Check the label near the radiator and shows timing 10 degrees BTDC. Automatic supposed to in Drive wheels blocked when setting timing. Disconnect tan with black strip wire passenger side on firewall to set timing with engine running. Reconnect wire after setting timing.

 

We took the #1 plug out and felt compression then pit the distributor in and had the bug pointing at the contact for #1. No duece

 

Buddy just tried it again (am currently at work) white lines lined up with the tribe on 0. Distributor pointing at #1 connector. No start. If he tries to start it by ether it just back fires

 

Hi Grizz87. If it isn't 180º out then consider this, some of the 60º v6 motors have two different length pushrods for intake and exhaust. If your motor has those and the previous owner mixed up a couple or replaced some this might be part of your problem. It will cause the motor to backfire and be very hard to start or impossible depending on how many are mixed up.

al

 

hmm i actually never thought of that. I will have to pull off the covers and test it

 

Don't go tearing into her just yet-The ignition systems on these cars isn't that complex, my car was pretty much junkyard ready and I got her running without tearing off any covers!

You said the engine is backfiring, but if you have an in-line spark checker (even a cheap $5 Harbor Freight one works great) go ahead and throw it on one of your spark plugs. You want to see a nice bright flash/spark! My car did this when I first got her running, it had a weak flash, and then I lost spark. It ended up being my pickup coil failed. I replaced this and installed a good ICM and she ran like a champ!

Double check your spark, wiring and timing, and get back to us
Good luck!

 

From what you guys have described the timing is correct. It has new plugs and wires as well as the distributor and a new coil.

 

Double check the firing order since new wires were installed. The distributor rotates clock wire as you see from the firing order diagrams.

It seems like you must have spark if the engine backfired.

If the order is correct try setting the ting to 10 degree nark and see if it will start.,

 

You might want to do a compression test to see if the chain has slipped.

 

firing order is set to
5 6
3 4
1 2

we opened the timing chain cover and checked to make sure the degree marks line up and they do. pulling the ICM tomorrow and getting it tested

 

Hopefully you mean the firing order is 123456 Very important after replacing plug wires.


If this is correct then a compression test is a good idea.
Once it is running a vacuum test and fuel pressure test can provide valuable information.

I am guess the yellow mark on pulley is timing when it is running is 10 BTDC with tan wire disconnected or further advanced with engine running and tan wire connected.

 

yes it is 123456
rear
5 6
3 4
1 2
front

compression tested fine last week. The yellow line is after the TDC mark so wouldnt that be after top dead center?

 

and I still honestly cant find this plug on the firewall. i found one that plugs into the coil harness and another that is on the firewall itself but it is a red wire instead of the brown with black line. anyone have a picture of it?

 

here is a video of when it ran before doing the time. All the parts that are on it in that video are on it now too.

 

Is all the smoke on passenger side leaking from the EGR area exhaust or oil burning off?

Vacuum leaks can make for rough running engine.

attached is label with timing 10 degrees BTDC when running with tan wire disconnected.

 

was about to ask if you disconnected the tan wire first but Mark beat me to it, it's right above the blower. If you have the timing reset to 0 I believe you can just pull the ECM fuse in the fuseblock for a good 10-15 seconds to reset it....

 

I will have to look again and see if we can find the wire. The smoke was coming out of the exhaust I believe.

 

It could also be burning oil, my car had the same problem! It could be leaking from the base of the distributor, but on my car it was dripping out from the oil pressure sending unit next to the oil filter down onto the hot exhaust. Easy fix once I found out where it was leaking from

Just curious, are your plugs/wires/dist. cap & rotor in good shape? Even with a vacuum leak my car didn't run that rough!

 

Plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and coil was all replaced before we went to do the timing on it. Ran as the video shows after all those so we went to do timing on it. Now won't run at all.

 

Did you change the tuning or just look at it?

 

Put it to tdc and set timing as the book and other posts say

 

Mark the distribution position at the base so you can get back to where you are now. Loosen the distributor so you can rotate with your hand. Have someone crank the engine while you move it slighty counterclock wise and see it starts. If that does no good try rotating just slighly clockwise and see if it starts. If it starts rotate till you get the fastest idle.

If it starts use your timing light and set to the 10 BTDC the label on your hood with tan wire disconnected. The wire may be inside the black plastic wiring cover with other wires unlike the picture I sent earlier

Is you battery still charged enough to start or do you have another battery or external power to keep cranking the engine. I ask because you have been trying to start for days. You want have12.5 volts or higher

 

we have been doing that exact thing with the distributor and nothing still. The battery is placed on a charger every night

 

Have you tried a little starter spray in the plenum?

Any chance one of the new parts is bad? Try the old cap rotor or coil

Did you get the ignition module tested?.

Some have had to replace the small wire from coil to distributor base. Check for continuity with meter.

 

We are getting the icm tested tomorrow. When trying to start with starter fluid it still didn't start. Do you have a picture of the wire I need to check on the coil to the distributor?

 

Here is a drawing showing two wire connector that plug in to icm. Make sure both connectors to icm are plugged and pins in good shape.

Be sure to put heat compound under the icm if you remove or replaced. GM icm module is best but more expensive.

 

Found to plugs both with tan wires and black line. Neither are above where the a.c. should be. One is on the finder other connects to the coil

 

The tan wire does have a black stripe on it if i remember correctly. It connect to the computer.

One of the 2 you found problably goes to your computer

The computer uses it to advance the timing. If you get the car running you can look at the timing with it connected it probably will advanced roughly 20 degrees when .set to factory timing. To time the engine to 10 degrees as per factory label on hood tan wire is disconnected so the computer will not advance the timing.
I saw another thread of a no start the mentioned the pickup in the distributor can be a common no start problem.

 

If you're talking about that tan wire with the plastic clip connection that's not it, I confused it too haha. I think that goes to the tach. It looks like that, but it comes out of this plastic wire loom above the AC box. You may have to pull it out and see if it's behind the loom.



Pickup coil can be a bit of a pain to change but definitely worth checking out. you said it's getting spark, just won't start. If the spark is weak the pickup can be to blame, my car was exactly like that and ran like a champ after I replaced it. It's a cheap part

 

i will have to look again. the two i found had one next to the strut and the other was next to the coil

 

from what I remember that wireing harness that is in the picture doesnt have a plug in it. picture is kinda small though lol. and by pickup you do mean the coil right? cuz I already replaced that

 

Well they're both coils, did you replace the ignition coil or the pickup coil? You said the car was running with all those things replaced, the only leaves the ICM and pickup coil. If the car has been sitting for awhile and the pickup is original it's possible it could've failed, I had this happen to me. It's really easy to test. Take your cap off and take off the 2 wires running from the coil to the ICM. Get your multimeter, it should test as infinite resistance from either lead to ground, and about 500-1,500 ohms with both leads connected.

And sorry about the picture, I tried using a screenshot from your vid to be as clear as possible. Since the car isn't even running off fluid now I'd focus on finding it later, but it has to be right there somewhere.

Good luck

 

No plug in that harness your pointing at. Still not starting

 

How did the ICM module test at your local auto parts store?

The pickup in the distributor is the two wire part in the distributor the connect to the ICM module. It should read between 500 and 1500 ohms.

What were the compression readings when you test the engine?

 

Icm tested fine. We replaced it though. Has a new distributor aswell so that shouldn't be the issue. Cylinder 1 tested at I believe 90 or 95 on compression

 

We have got it to try to bust still won't. It did start for like 5 secs then die

 

Headlights aren't coming up either. Not sure if that has any thing to do with the issue to.

 

compression should be over 100 pounds per cylinder. No variance of more than 30 percent between cylinders. How many miles on car?

My car all cylinder were within about 5 pounds of each other and read 150 pounds with 126000 miles when I got it about 4 years ago.

Check the fuses on the fender. There are two of them. Close to the fan. My 88 are on the passengers sise 89 may be drivers side.

 

CHECK THE FUSES UNDER THE DASH INCLUDING THE INJ1 INJ2 fuses for injectors.

 

so good news. car is starting and idling now, but when putting the car into gear it tries to die. Car is idling at 1200 also. if I go any lower it tries to die.

 

there are fuses on the fender? the book said only under the steering wheel

 

Look for a vacuum leak.

 

there is a probably a lot of vacuum leaks but I cannot find a vacuum diagram in my chiltons book.

 

There is a vacuum diagram on the inside of the hood. I sent a photo of it yesterday. It was upside down so it may need to be rotated.

Index is in the back of Chiltons manual. Page 4-37 see top right 86-89 2.8 fuel injected

There are two fuses on the fender. Will try and send you a photo tomorrow. The other fuses are under dash driver side. Look for a lever on the plastic door to the fuses and turn before pulling down

Glad to hear your got it running again.

 

I will have to look at your picture. Previous owner removed the stickers on the hood and the fan shroud. I will look through the book again tonight also.