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I will be getting these forgelines eventually for my GTA
These are not race certified but do look great in person. If you track the car, these are not the wheels you will want to run while racing. We looked at these when we ordered our Forgelines. If you don't plan on racing the car on them, then there are shops that will offer small (15%) discounts on Forgeline wheels.
Originally Posted by okfoz
Too bad it looks like you cant make a WS6 center cap without some effort... Killer looking rims tho
Since the wheels are custom measured and ordered, this shouldn't be too hard to accommodate when ordering. You have to specify the opening measurement for the centers anyway.
We went with the Forgeline GW3R from their Competition Series. I like the looks on the car and this model is track rated. The next set will be the previously shown TA3 wheel as a street wheel.
Please explain to me what "race rated" wheels are - is this something legitimate or just something to liberate money when purchasing? Think of it this way - for years you could run OEM 16" 3rd gen wheels on CMC and AI cars and they were in no way "race rated" by GM.
Originally Posted by Beater79TA
These are not race certified but do look great in person. If you track the car, these are not the wheels you will want to run while racing. We looked at these when we ordered our Forgelines. If you don't plan on racing the car on them, then there are shops that will offer small (15%) discounts on Forgeline wheels.
Since the wheels are custom measured and ordered, this shouldn't be too hard to accommodate when ordering. You have to specify the opening measurement for the centers anyway.
We went with the Forgeline GW3R from their Competition Series. I like the looks on the car and this model is track rated. The next set will be the previously shown TA3 wheel as a street wheel.
I don't think there is a standard for what a "race wheel" means. However, some companies do make wheels aimed at road racing where they try to reduce weight while at the same time designing with a more severe load profile than what they use for their street wheels.
On the other end of the spectrum, purpose built drag race wheels take weight reduction to an extreme such that the wheel is no longer suitable for the load profile of street driving.
These are a couple examples of how a "race wheel" is indeed different than a run of the mill street wheel.
Please explain to me what "race rated" wheels are - is this something legitimate or just something to liberate money when purchasing? Think of it this way - for years you could run OEM 16" 3rd gen wheels on CMC and AI cars and they were in no way "race rated" by GM.
Since the price on the 2 wheels is almost identical, I don't think it is an attempt to liberate more money when purchasing.
The way it was explained to me at SEMA and again at a couple of other events, was they run the design through a failure analysis model to determine load limits of the design. They then model that against load forces of cars in various weight ranges to determine if they would rate the wheel for racing. There is also a comparison of load forces for cars running racing slicks vs street tires.
By saying it isn't race rated, they meant it didn't pass the design analysis for a 3500 lb car in high speed sustained high side loading cornering experienced during road racing and they didn't recommend it for that use. That doesn't mean it will fail immediately or even ever but it means the design didn't meet their criteria for a wheel being used in that application.
As for running OEM wheels, yes, many many people do it with no issues for years. Others (including one friend of ours) make it through 5 or 6 race days and then notice that only 3 of the 5 spokes aren't cracked through. This is why it's key to inspect the wheels regularly for damage no matter who made them if you race the car hard or drive on a lot of rough roads.
I think their attorneys had a lot to do with the wording of the wheel descriptions - even though it is pretty honest of them to put that out there. As a manufacturer of wheels myself, I worry about wheel failure constantly and hope that nothing catastrophic happens in the event. Doing a quick stress analysis in my head, the wheels on the GTA in theory would be stronger than the 3pc ones in the other picture, but not enough the call the 3pc ones "unsafe".
Obviously some designs are stronger than others, but materials used are just as important as the design. Most of the CMC racers who use our wheels now were previously running on 16" cross lace wheels for many seasons with the only failures being from crashes - they aren't forged wheels like the big name brands offer, yet still took sustained cornering loads in the 1.3g range without issues.
I agree on the inspection of the wheels (and other parts) on race cars - need to make sure everything is 100% before heading out to do battle.
Originally Posted by Beater79TA
Since the price on the 2 wheels is almost identical, I don't think it is an attempt to liberate more money when purchasing.
The way it was explained to me at SEMA and again at a couple of other events, was they run the design through a failure analysis model to determine load limits of the design. They then model that against load forces of cars in various weight ranges to determine if they would rate the wheel for racing. There is also a comparison of load forces for cars running racing slicks vs street tires.
By saying it isn't race rated, they meant it didn't pass the design analysis for a 3500 lb car in high speed sustained high side loading cornering experienced during road racing and they didn't recommend it for that use. That doesn't mean it will fail immediately or even ever but it means the design didn't meet their criteria for a wheel being used in that application.
As for running OEM wheels, yes, many many people do it with no issues for years. Others (including one friend of ours) make it through 5 or 6 race days and then notice that only 3 of the 5 spokes aren't cracked through. This is why it's key to inspect the wheels regularly for damage no matter who made them if you race the car hard or drive on a lot of rough roads.
I think their attorneys had a lot to do with the wording of the wheel descriptions - even though it is pretty honest of them to put that out there. As a manufacturer of wheels myself, I worry about wheel failure constantly and hope that nothing catastrophic happens in the event. Doing a quick stress analysis in my head, the wheels on the GTA in theory would be stronger than the 3pc ones in the other picture, but not enough the call the 3pc ones "unsafe".
I agree on the lawyers. They never said the wheels were unsafe just not recommended for that application and then explained why along with how they did the analysis. We chose to error on the side of the engineers and not risk it when ordering the first set. Now I need to decide which model will be the second set and whether or not there will eventually be a third set.
As for the wheels, both models are 3 piece wheels. We opted for hidden hardware on the set on the GTA so the center bolts go to the inside for a, to us, cleaner look. We also opted for bolt on center caps so we didn't have to remove them for events.
Please explain to me what "race rated" wheels are - is this something legitimate or just something to liberate money when purchasing? Think of it this way - for years you could run OEM 16" 3rd gen wheels on CMC and AI cars and they were in no way "race rated" by GM.
Sounds as if they made up a term so they can claim the competing wheel suppliers don't have "race rated" wheels. Saw lots of this at SEMA and at various tracks. People will actually believe those kinds of made up "ratings" and get scared out of buying what they want by sales people.
I road race a 2015 Camaro on GM wheels (two sets made by Ronal, not sure about the other) as well as some relatively cheap MRR's for autocross. Sure, material plays a lot in to it, and with the market being flooded with made-up brands backed by third world gravity casting factories- there's some real junk on the market. Once you parse out poor materials and poor methods, it's as simple as "thicker spokes are stronger" with all else being equal.
I won't argue that its a marketing ploy. But there may also be some truth to it as I've seen both factory and less expensive aftermarket wheels fail in high speed corners. But beat on any wheel long enough and you run the risk of it failing. So far we're very happy with the look and performance of the Forgelines though.
It's not even that much off. Flash makes it worse. Bunch of negative nancys. Especially you crossfire... always picking on other peoples stuff but what do you have to show for apart from a turd and pipe dreams
It's not even that much off. Flash makes it worse. Bunch of negative nancys. Especially you crossfire... always picking on other peoples stuff but what do you have to show for apart from a turd and pipe dreams
No disrespect intended from me.... Like I said, I didn't even notice it at first. Had to take a second look to see it. Car looks nice, man.
Of all the wheels to criticize in this thread you choose those? Seriously?!? I don't know if anybody has noticed but this thread is chock full of the ugliest wheels known to mankind and those BBS wheels smell like a rose in a field of weeds!
Of all the wheels to criticize in this thread you choose those? Seriously?!? I don't know if anybody has noticed but this thread is chock full of the ugliest wheels known to mankind and those BBS wheels smell like a rose in a field of weeds!
These are not race certified but do look great in person. If you track the car, these are not the wheels you will want to run while racing. We looked at these when we ordered our Forgelines. If you don't plan on racing the car on them, then there are shops that will offer small (15%) discounts on Forgeline wheels.
Since the wheels are custom measured and ordered, this shouldn't be too hard to accommodate when ordering. You have to specify the opening measurement for the centers anyway.
We went with the Forgeline GW3R from their Competition Series. I like the looks on the car and this model is track rated. The next set will be the previously shown TA3 wheel as a street wheel.
... please please post some images showing the whole car ... what size wheels and tires ?? Back spacing front and rear ??
... please please post some images showing the whole car ... what size wheels and tires ?? Back spacing front and rear ??
Tires are 315/30/18 on all 4 corners on 18x10.5 wheels. Front backspacing is 6 inches. Rear is 6.5 inches. Lots of pictures and video of the car on Facebook at
Awesome! Any fit issues? I wonder too about the fit of the YearOne versions. Currently have stock 15" wheels on '91 Firebird.
... to me these Year One SnowFlakes are the perfect wheel for the early year 3rd gen T/A's (Black T/A Below), just perfect !!! ... the black & gold paint i think goes a long way to tying everything together ...
... i just submitted a quote to Budnik for a set of these bad boys, thinking (MAYBE) for an 89' GTA bright red car and the Titanium coating on the wheel like pictured ... Mistake ??? Home Run ???
... i really don't care for the fat-lip style wheel hoop, i asked if they'd make em' with the double-step hoop, we'll see ...
... the GTA pictured is not my car, mine has not arrived yet ... could anyone here maybe be able to photoshop the Budnik Matrix (18inch) under the GTA pic i posted ?? Please please I'm dying to see if it looks like i hope it will
Last edited by twinturrbo406; 07-16-2017 at 09:29 PM.
Tires are 315/30/18 on all 4 corners on 18x10.5 wheels. Front backspacing is 6 inches. Rear is 6.5 inches. Lots of pictures and video of the car on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/DragonladyGta/ But here's one more of it on track this spring.
... wow !!! ... look at how fat those wheels look !!! ... so just how much clearance work if any needed to be done ?? ... the back from the outside anyways looks like it would hold a 335/30-18 tire, you ever try to stuff one that size in the back ?? ...
... wow !!! ... look at how fat those wheels look !!! ... so just how much clearance work if any needed to be done ?? ... the back from the outside anyways looks like it would hold a 335/30-18 tire, you ever try to stuff one that size in the back ?? ...
They are actually right at the outer edge of the fender now front and rear so I doubt I could get 335s without some additional metal work if I didn't want them sticking out of the wheel well. Front 335 without flares would be impossible.
And, yes, these tires are quite fat. They stick to the pavement amazingly well too.
They are actually right at the outer edge of the fender now front and rear so I doubt I could get 335s without some additional metal work if I didn't want them sticking out of the wheel well. Front 335 without flares would be impossible.
And, yes, these tires are quite fat. They stick to the pavement amazingly well too.
I bet they do !!! Lol ... You ever put a meter in the car to see how much G force it generates ?? Oh, was any Clearance work needed to fit the 315's to the car ?? No rubbing of the ground effects at all ?? Man from some angles it almost looks like the fronts poke out just a bit more than the rears, but then different angles they look the same ...
I bet they do !!! Lol ... You ever put a meter in the car to see how much G force it generates ?? Oh, was any Clearance work needed to fit the 315's to the car ?? No rubbing of the ground effects at all ?? Man from some angles it almost looks like the fronts poke out just a bit more than the rears, but then different angles they look the same ...
The camera we use on the track has a G Force meter in it. I don't know how accurate it is but we have seen it spike as high as 1.8 G in corners. We've never set up a true test for sustained G force measurement though. I would like to think it is substantially better than stock but we've never tested for it.
There was some clearancing done by the shop that measured for and test fit the wheels for us. Not much had to be shaved though. More in the back than the front, too. We expected full flaring of the fenders on all 4 corners but ended up not needing to go wide body on the car And, yes, the fronts do stick out just a hair more than the rears. Less than 1/10 of an inch per side visually. I haven't put a tape measure on it to see if the track width is different or just the contour of the body makes the body slightly narrower at the top of the front wheel wells vs the top of the back wheel wells.
The camera we use on the track has a G Force meter in it. I don't know how accurate it is but we have seen it spike as high as 1.8 G in corners. We've never set up a true test for sustained G force measurement though. I would like to think it is substantially better than stock but we've never tested for it.
There was some clearancing done by the shop that measured for and test fit the wheels for us. Not much had to be shaved though. More in the back than the front, too. We expected full flaring of the fenders on all 4 corners but ended up not needing to go wide body on the car And, yes, the fronts do stick out just a hair more than the rears. Less than 1/10 of an inch per side visually. I haven't put a tape measure on it to see if the track width is different or just the contour of the body makes the body slightly narrower at the top of the front wheel wells vs the top of the back wheel wells.
... ok, i think the rear wheels you have are a lock for me, i can handle some wheel well massaging, no big deal ... but i'm curious what your fronts would look like without the -1.75 degrees of Camber ?? as this obviously pulls the top of the wheel inward, so my gut is telling me the fronts will need some adjustment as i'm not road racing, but again that's just what i see in the images, the only question is how much ?? lol
... and holy crap 1.8g's !!!!!! ... i bet that thing makes you dizzy lol
... ok, i think the rear wheels you have are a lock for me, i can handle some wheel well massaging, no big deal ... but i'm curious what your fronts would look like without the -1.75 degrees of Camber ?? as this obviously pulls the top of the wheel inward, so my gut is telling me the fronts will need some adjustment as i'm not road racing, but again that's just what i see in the images, the only question is how much ?? lol
... and holy crap 1.8g's !!!!!! ... i bet that thing makes you dizzy lol
Honestly, if you aren't corner carving competitively with the car, I'd stop at a 275 width tire. Plenty of options in both 17 and 18 inch tires and they fit with far fewer complications at a lower price than the 315s. And a drag racing setup would want skinny wheels up front while on the straight line.
With less camber, it will bring the top of the wheel out and make the 315s stick out further. Another reason to go to a narrower wheel if you aren't racing it. Your front brake setup will also impact how far out a 6 inch backspace will sit. We use aftermarket brakes that push the face of the rotor out 1/4 inch from stock.
If I were building a street car, I'd probably stop at a 17x9 wheel with a 275/40/17 tire or a 18x9 with a 275/35/18 tire. The tires will be quite a bit cheaper in a 275 profile than a 315 profile.
The 1.8 Gs goes by quickly in the corner. But we put in a harnesses and racing seats years ago to keep the driver in place during these maneuvers. Last year we added a cage to supplement the SFCs for chassis stiffness. Prior to the harnesses, it was hard to corner hard in stock trim without getting tossed around.
Picked these up a few months ago. Haven't put them on yet. 18x9.5 275-35-18.
Originally Posted by CharcoalBird
Post a picture of them on the car. Look forward to seeing them.
Finally got the wheels on. Had to finish rebuilding the front end suspension. Need to get thinner adapters and install rear weight jackers. I bought the wheels so I could install the Camaro SS brakes. Mainly use it to Autocross and want to start doing some track days.
04-25-2017, 09:33 PM
(Insert Sarcasm Here....) 
I don't know if anybody has noticed but this thread is chock full of the ugliest wheels known to mankind and those BBS wheels smell like a rose in a field of weeds! 
... what size wheels and tires ?? Back spacing front and rear ?? 
I'm dying to see if it looks like i hope it will 
so just how much clearance work if any needed to be done ?? ... the back from the outside anyways looks like it would hold a 335/30-18 tire, you ever try to stuff one that size in the back ?? ... 
