Willie

iTrader: (1)

Ever seen a 305 4-bolt block? You have now!!! This includes two-bolt ARP studs on the inner and splayed 12-point ARP bolts on the outer..

This is the foundation for good things to come, including all 4340 internals, and lots more boost, most likely in the 20+ range. Soon my friends, I should easily be running 11's with my fully optioned (including A/C), emissions-legal, daily-driven 305....

MrDude_1

what did a 305 4 bolt come in??? trucks?

Willie

iTrader: (1)

One doesn't exist from the factory. This is a four-bolt conversion.

Willie

MrDude_1

ahhh... that explains why i never heard of it.

The_Raven

Actually there were 305 4-bolts around, but not automotive applications, look at marine applications. Unfortunatly they are not splayed 4-bolts, but the normal factory type straight 4-bolt.

I believe these blocks also made it in to the "Iraqi Taxis" that were shipped over seas in the '70s.

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

i was actually thinkin of that last month when ever my motor blows or if i just wanna get it rebuilt someday i think ill have that done.

also does anyone know, i was lookin under my car these past few days and i noticed it said 551 where it has those numbers on Willie's block. what does the 551 mean? i know i have a 305 but do those tell anything special about the block?

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Good luck man

CrazyHawaiian

Crazyness!! I like it!!!

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

tbfirebird

well i guess i'lll be the first to ask how much would something like that cost me now i might stay with my lil 305.........TBI!!!!!!!200 hp shot of nos here i come and 9inch ford.:hail: :hail: :hail:

mypontiac

Great job Willie.

Can you send me some details?

Cost and who did the work.

Would like to know once it is time to rebuild mine.

I would rather have someone do it that has some past experience.

Otherwise, mine is still running strong!

Keep us posted.

Guido

Lookin good Willie!

Keep us posted on your progress with the car.

mypontiac

I was telling a friend of mine about your project.

He said that the 305 can be modified for a 4 bolt application with machine work to the block.

Do you have any particular advise to add concerning the conversion?

Thanks!

Christos

Awesome! I didn't know if that could be done.

So Willie, are you using the same procharger you have now, just changing pullies for the boost? As I recall, you bought a much-upgraded supercharger originally so you could do this.

Good luck, and keep us posted on the results! I want to see a sub 12 second 305!

Willie

iTrader: (1)

well i guess i'lll be the first to ask how much would something like that cost me now i might stay with my lil 305.........TBI!!!!!!!

I guess that would depend on what else you're having done as long as the block is disassembled. I'm going all out so it's going to cost a lot.


Can you send me some details?

What specifically do you want to know, everything I'm having done? Man, that's a lot of typing...


Cost and who did the work.

I'd have to itemize all my parts and labor, which I haven't done yet. A local machine shop finished the job a couple of days ago.


Would like to know once it is time to rebuild mine. I would rather have someone do it that has some past experience.

If you want to come out here, I'll give you the name. But I have a feeling you'll find someone locally that has as much experience.

Here's one more pic:

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Proof that my engine remains a 305, a 3.75 inch bore!!

mypontiac

OK Now you are just teasing me!!!

You know that you and I are the leading edge on the 305 with you being the master!

I will be adding a new SMC progressive alky injection system with a 15# pulley.

I am looking to you for experience once the stock bottom end blows!

I have your basic set up already. Just need advise on a new engine rebuild. Send me a PM when you get some time.

Good luck with yours!

SATURN5

Hey Willie..

Did you get the part numbers on the 12 point bolts for the splayed caps? appricieto..

I'm slowly getting parts together for a 302..

either a 283 steel crank or 302 SJ crank with spacers or if I can find one at a decent $$ a 302 LJ crank, which I'll turn the rods down to 2.00 and destroke it .050".

using TRW 2441's, and 6" H-beam rods. (nascar stuff) lol

thanks, BW

SATURN5

Noticed you are running a gear drive...

any problems with it setting the knock sensor nutz?

BW

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Missed a few:

....He said that the 305 can be modified for a 4 bolt application with machine work to the block.

Any 2-bolt Chevy small block can be modified.


Do you have any particular advise to add concerning the conversion?

Have a pro do it!!


So Willie, are you using the same procharger you have now, just changing pullies for the boost? As I recall, you bought a much-upgraded supercharger originally so you could do this.

I've had a D1SC for almost three years now. My plan was to keep it and use the cog drive on it, not knowing how much boost it would create. Update: It appears that today (08-09-03), I have sold the D1SC. If the deal goes, I'll be getting an F1.


Good luck, and keep us posted on the results! I want to see a sub 12 second 305!

Thanks and I will. Although I don't like to guestimate what times I'll run, I can almost guarantee that it will be 11's. That is my goal and once I achieve it, my car will be considered "project completed".


OK Now you are just teasing me!!!

Did I wet your whistle?


You know that you and I are the leading edge on the 305 with you being the master!

Not exactly. I had to learn from someone too!


I will be adding a new SMC progressive alky injection system with a 15# pulley.

So I've read.


I am looking to you for experience once the stock bottom end blows! I have your basic set up already.

You did, but I keep changing stuff, so it's not really true any more!


Just need advise on a new engine rebuild. Send me a PM when you get some time.

Better idea: When it's time, contact me! I might reply.


Good luck with yours!

Thanks! I'll need it trying to go where no 305 has gone before (lots of boost, that is).


Did you get the part numbers on the 12 point bolts for the splayed caps?

I did ask the machine shop owner. All he told me was they are 12-point, grade 8 bolts (I forgot the size and length though). I can ask again. The caps are made by CV Products. Much nicer than Milodon's. We had them side-by-side and it was no comparison.


I'm slowly getting parts together for a 302..

I envy you. I love those wide bore, short stroke engines -- can rev them to the moon!!


Noticed you are running a gear drive... any problems with it setting the knock sensor nutz?

I've had the Pete Jackson "quiet" gear drive since 1999. No problems whatsoever. I will be installing them on my convertible's 305 when the time comes.

Hope I didn't miss anyone this time....

Willie

mypontiac

Thanks for the nice long post!!

Yes much drool going on here!!

So you are going with the F1! You dog!

There will be a lot of pissed 383 owners on the board really soon.

Hopefully I won't need to contact you about a rebuild for some time. Watch the knock carefully and get the alky flowing.

Too hot here to work on the project. Roast you alive!

Will get on it in October, if I can hold out.

RMK

Willie,

I'm just wondering what size of dish is on those pistons? Also, what is your new compression ratio going to work out at?

Thanks

Robert

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Robert,

The pistons are made by JE and they are -12cc dish. The chamfer on the edge of the cylinder wall is worth -2cc. My AFR 190's are 55cc. The Cometic head gaskets I'm using are 4.165" diameter and 0.078" compressed thickness. This yields a C.R. of 8.5 to 1. It was 9.2 to 1.

Willie

KYL98

Willie that is sweet!!.....Hell...I have a 350 and I envy being able to have an 11sec daily driver...with all options still on it. You have to tell me what kind of supercharger I could start out with on my L98......

Willie

iTrader: (1)

You have to tell me what kind of supercharger I could start out with on my L98......

Personally, I'd start out with an ATI D1SC with twin intercoolers.

Willie

KYL98

Ok Willie...here come the questions...lol First, price?? Im getting ready to have my block rebuilt..and was putting the 4bolt adapters in it anway....do I need a forged crank for a relative low boost? Id like to have a decent 13sec car......What about the tranny? rear end etc?? Im pretty good on the computer end....but if you could get me started on what all Id need to get going...I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance......

mypontiac

Go to: http://www.tenperf.com/

Dave is the only dealer with the twin intercooler D-1SC set up for 3rd gen F Bodies. You are looking at about $3600 for the set up. More or less.

Willie will have to direct you to other expenditures.

Manual or auto tranny?

I am looking at a TKO 5 speed tranny once the T5 blows.

Still good though with a 12's TA running 10 lbs boost on a D-1SC.

15# to come by Fall of this year.

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Ok Willie...here come the questions...lol First, price??

Sean (aka mypontiac) answered already.


Im getting ready to have my block rebuilt..and was putting the 4bolt adapters in it anway....do I need a forged crank for a relative low boost?

No. The stock bottom end can easily support 450 - 500 hp. The weak link are the pistons. Buy a good set of forged castings. And with any power adder, you'll need an aftermarket ignition. Although the stock HEI is an excellent design, it craps out quickly on the high end.


Id like to have a decent 13sec car......What about the tranny? rear end etc??

It's not that difficult to have a 13-second 350 without a power adder. If this is your goal, do it with bolt-ons, heads and a cam. The tranny and rear end should be okay, but it's also dependent on how you drive.

Willie

KYL98

How much power realistically is possible with the base supercharger? I read on ATI's site that there is a 60-85% gain??? Just wondered how true that is. What kind of power could I expect by simply putting the charger/intercoolers on?? I know Id probably end up changing the cam, bigger TB, runners etc.....I start out simple with every car then it turns into a big money pit...lol thats NOT street legal. Thats why Im so interested in the supercharger.....because they are just starting the emissions junk around here....and Id hate to build another car like I had before(high 11sec 383, big cam etc) and not be able to drive it on the street because of emissions. Ive actually made a list of what Id like to do to my car now....tell me what ya think.

Stock block bored .030
4 bolt main conversion....
ATI procharger....
JE or SRP forged pistons
custom COMP cam....
Ported Plenum...
Some type of big tube runner(SLP, edelbrock, etc)
Alum heads(Corvette L98 or something else cheap..lol)
52mm TB
Hedmann dual cat headers
custom dual exhaust(similiar to Willie's) or Mufflex 3.5in catback


Thats about all I have right now. Im guessing alum heads would allow for more timing...just like in N/A cases right?? Could I use the stock heads if I ported the **** out of them...until money would allow for say....AFR's?? I also emailed CompCams about a custom grind for the blower...they said they have several to choose from for a blown TPI. What kind of piston should I go with??? I know the C/R needs to be relatively low, correct? Then again, I might as well go ahead and get the heads I want to use with the blower, so I can choose the right piston.....Im not looking for a big 700hp street machine....just something similar to Willie's numbers(old numbers). Id love to be able to have the numbers of my old car(11.86) AND be able to drive it everyday.........

bigals87z28

Ahh Willie.. you did it again... man alive your car is gunna be sweet(like it sucked before!). I would like to see a good race between you and a bolt on 03 cobra... that would be sick.

and off topic, Willie(or anyone), have you heard the new kenny bell SC on the cobra?... its sick... 500+hp to the ground...errr i hate ford...

mypontiac

KYL98,

I had some exhaust, valve train and intake mods done to my stock 305. So say I went from 220 FWHP to 260 FWHP.

After the addition of the D-1SC I had the car dynoed and got 345 RWHP which is about 390 FWHP.

So I got a 50% increase in HP.

This was on the stock HEI and after driving for 1 1/2 hrs to the shop!

KYL98

So on my L98, I could expect more? The engine comes out of the car this weekend coming up.....so Im going to have in checked out..new bearings, etc. and have the 4bolt caps put in it....if everything is ok....Im planning on putting new pistons and rods in it, as well as pushrods. When I choose a cam I will get the stock dia springs and new lifters to use on my stock heads Im having ported as we speak. The guy is pretty sure he can get the same flow numbers as the alum L98 heads, maybe a little better.....but do I need alum heads? will it help with the detonation factor of the blower???? I cant wait to get this thing started..hehe

Guido

Willie, Im curious about those pistons. I did a little research and JE makes an "APBA spec" piston for 305's. Im assuming that is what you have. Is that the only good forged lightweight piston you could find for your project or what?

SATURN5

American Power Boat Assoc?? BW

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Yep, I'm using boat pistons!!! I could only come up with two alternatives:

1) TRW forged in a 60 over (my block was currently at 20 over, so I didn't want to use these. Found them on Summit's shelf. 30 over TRW's (or any other bore size) were not to be found anywhere!

2) JE could custom build a set. However in talking with their rep, he said these spec boat pistons would work very well in a blown application.

Yes, I had thoughts of going to a 350 but with all the machining that had already been done to my 305, that was out of the question. So now the only question I have is, does the APBA run 305's????

Willie

Guido

Hell, APBA sanctions all kinds of different class racing. They probably have some small piston powered boat class. Who knows.

Good luck with em! Do they come with lowered ringlands or anything like that to help in the case of detonation?

RMK

When I was rebuilding my motor the only forged TRW pistons I could find were in 20 or 40 over. My Summit rep told me that it was due to a halt in the production due to a buyout. In the end it was a shop in Texas that managed to source the 20 over for me. I'm just glad I didn't need a 30 over.

SATURN5

Not sure but lots of marine 305's came in ski boats.. maybe thats why.. BW

B4Ctom1

I was trying to figure out wher I had heard the "APBA" on the top of your pistons before. They are the "NHRA" of powerboats...

cdartz

So what did you already have done to your 305 block that you weren't willing to go to a 350. From what I can tell it's always cheaper to build a 350, and a more desirable platform to start with, so you must have had a substantial investment in your 305 already.

mypontiac

Need updates on the performance!

stevedave454

i was just curious.. why a 305? im not flaming the idea, i say to each his own, as long as its fast i like it, just curious why you chose to keep the 305 when many people consider the worst small block chevy ever made, again im not flaming the idea...

bigals87z28

Not to flame you, but Im sure he answerd it in pervious posts. If you ever have seen Willie's car, he doesnt usualy follow in the footsteps of others as his car is one of the most unique and one of the finest cars on this site... and his blown 305 aint bad either!! Willie probably has more work done to his white 87 then 95% of the people on this board, and that is an understatement. If I could model my car after anyones on this site, it would either of Willie's cars. And as for teh 305 being bad, you must never have felt the raw power of a 2bbl 307!! I say keep kickin **** with that 305 Willie!!

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

There's a lot of stupid people out there. If you want an NA DRAG engine then you go with whatever gets you the most cubes for the $ spent. Otherwise, if street time, boost, gas mileage, emissions, dozens of other things… are factors then there are lots of reasons to consider smaller bores (and at times there are still reasons to go with larger ones).

As far as choosing engines or whatever, you should choose what works best for what you're going to do. I was amused when I noticed that half of the chevy engines built for the engine master's challenge were based on 307 blocks, probably the one SBC that (undeservedly) gets even less respect then the 305...

B4Ctom1

I went with less cubes. Taking a 400 block and stroking it way down (327,307 stroke 3.25"). I think less can be more sometimes maybe.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

There are times that sorter stroke/bigger bore are a good idea (mostly if you _need_ it to rev and have to do it relatively cheaply), mostly in a light car that needs significantly more hp then torque (either a light road race chassis that just will not hook up more torque, when you do not have a tranny/axle available that can handle more torque or if you need higher speeds and gearing is not available to do it without the RPM). Otherwise it's hard to justify bores over 4" on most modern configurations.

stevedave454

why's this? i have heard (from you) the theories about a smaller bore helping to control the combustion and therefore helping to reduce detonation, is this the only reason you say this? i think i personally would take all the bore i can get, and go with the right stroke thats for the number of cubes i want... i agree that you dont need huge cubes for lots of street power and i'd like to build a motor like b4ctom1

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

I noticed that trend too, although I think a lot of the driving force behind the decision to build off the 307 is solely for bragging rights- "i won the engine masters challenge with a lame 307" sounds like you have "more know how" than if you were to win the challenge with a $2000 aftermarket block.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Assuming the same displacement a larger bore buys you less reciprocating mass and more valve area. A smaller bore buys you better flame front control, a faster burning chamber design… preventing detonation and promoting a greater, more consistent pressure rise earlier in the combustion process where it can do more work. You also lower emissions (less likely to have a/f around the outside edges or blocked by some detail in a big, flat chamber), better mileage at part throttle and other concerns that OEM's have. Most modern head designs (vortec/fastburn, LT1/LT4 and expecially the LS*, as well as most 4 valve heads…) result in more airflow then the engine could use at the RPM that it makes it's power in. In most cases you do not need an engine that will rev higher then 6500rpm on the street, which is easily achievable with any stroke that you can pack in a package that will fit under the hood of most cars… Both basically kill the reasons that you'd want a larger bore.

Take a look at what gm has done in redesigning the SBC into the LS*, or the ford mod motors or even the little honda's and other 4 bangers (which require RPM to make hp, and they still have much smaller bore/stroke ratios).

I doubt that it was bragging rights… I didn't notice anyone using high $$$ parts for the major hardware, the way the rules were laid out and there was no need or advantage (and unlike most "enthusiasts" they aren't prone to going billet, forged, aftermarket everything unnecessarily). From a more pragmatic perspective, the reason was 2 fold… Many were trying to run all the compression that they could on the required 92 octane, requiring great detonation and flame front control since most of those engines were in the 12:1-14:1 CR range, something that you won't get away with with something like a 400block's 4.120" or so bore. Second, the bore of the 307, +030" plus a 400 crank puts you within about .4ci of the maximum limit for displacement for the competition, allowing you to use cheap parts with a little custom machining to build a nice combination. You probably may have seen any even smaller bores if there was an easy/reasonable way to build a 360ci engine with them, but the next common size down is the 305's 3.736" bore which you'd be hard pressed to get to over 340ci with any crank that fits in a factory block (the limit is about 3.85" which would yeld 338ci with the factory 305 bore).

91 GTA Ramair2

NICE 305.............

But thank's just the same i'll stick with my 406TBI.

540HP & 620TQ@FLYWHEEL......

I can't wait to see what it make's at the wheel's but them 3.73's and 295/50R16 Drag radail's should Hold it good......