I just recently acquired(2 hours ago) a running 455 from a '76 Toronado. Last time the engine was ran, 1 year ago, it ran fine. But my main question is, "Is that feasable?" I know it might be a little late to be asking the question now, but I'm sure it is. But how? Will it bolt right into my car, or will I have to buy special engine mounts? If so, from where? Also, what kit will I need to get to make my front end support this new beast of a motor? I know this is crazy but for only 250 bucks I could NOT pass the deal up! It currently has a 305 if that makes any difference. Thanks for any help!

 

you will forsure need diffrent mounts, which i have no idea and i dont belive theres any kits made to make it work, the only thing really you can do is get a pair of frame mounts for like a cutlass or any olds with a 455, test fit the engine where the mounts are to be, drill holes and mount the mounts there in the frame, not too much of a bastard but will get you to what you need. it is a wide SOB so make sure it will fit, people have been putting in BBC's and buicks and pontiacs so im sure you will be ok, just use your imagination on this one.

 

You'll need a different tranny, or an adapter (which IMO is not the best idea).

250 bucks for the motor is great, but if it costs 1250 to put it in, whats the point? I'd think about that first.

 

Agreed.

It's a nice swap just to be different but it'll cost more than a BBC when you're done.

 

That's probably true, the conversion will run me more $$$ but I'm all for being different, plus the Olds. 455 was making nearly 500 lbs. of torque stock! The BBC's weren't. The power is better with this. Besides, now that it is an official "project car" I'm willing to wait a little longer to get the needed funds. Plus, a 455 will probably get me into Car Craft easier, than a traditional BBC. Thanks for your concern, but do you guys know where I can get a conversion kit to make it work? (Motor mounts for example.) A friend of mine thoought it should bolt right in, but I'm hearing different from you guys.

 

There are no conversion kits available except for BBC.

You need to make everything yourself to get it to fit.

 

Steve, are sure that there is not one for Poncho engines? The only reason I raise this point, is that I read once that the Firebirds were also designed to accomodate the Poncho motors originally, until GM went the "corporate engine" route.

But you are right that it will definitely be a DIY project requiring more than just motor mounts. Exhaust would be one of my major concerns. There is barely enough room for the exhaust for the SBC.

 

Jim Butler Performance in TN sells kits to put Pontiac motors into a 3rd gen.

 

Yes there are kits out there to put in a pontiac engine and a buick engines (there a few FAST 455 buick powered third gens i've seen in the mags) also that 455 olds wont have 500 ft lbs if its a 76' 76' was the worst year stock wise with the 455's and really all engines it will have around 235 HP and mabey 350 ft lbs, the 76' will also have the junk J cast heads, and still better then a BBC In my opinion, but a few bolt ons and that big olds 455 will move

 

So are pontiac and ols. engines the same? You guys were saying that they DO have engine kits for Poncho engines, therefore for olds. also. If so, where can I find those kits online. And also, that engine WON'T remain stock. I was definately thinking new intake and cam, but if you say the heads are junk, maybe I need to consider that also. But darn those are expensive! THANKS!

 

Hotrodding any GM besides an SBC is typically an expensive proposition.

No, Olds and Pontiac motors are not the same; the motor mounts and headers will be totally different.

There are websites and companies devoted to building performance Cadillac, Olds, Pontiac and even Buick engines. Do some searching and see what you can dig up.

Good luck!

 

If that engine is stock from a '76 Toronado you're going to have the most expensive 15 second Firebird in the world. I wouldn't touch this swap with a 10-foot pole.

 

ditto afgun, any engine except for a 350 chevy will be expensive, but not allways, alot of people think the BOP 455's are just junk but really they are some powerhouse engines and with just bolt ones can move, with that 455 i'd look for some better heads, get eather B,C or E casting heads theres on most any big block olds from 65-73 or so. also the BOP 455 might have the same cubic inches ther all completly diffrent engines. but i would just check the heads to make sure (im 95% positive) on the head closes to the engine on the last exhaust port there will be a big letter if its J then it stands for what it is J=Junk

 

A couple of points of reference:
1) Late '70's, Olds 455, gone through with good parts and standard hot rodder tricks, tunnel ram with dual Holleys, in a '68 Camaro - ran high 12's at our altitude (but did it all season long with no work). [One week, the track announcer kept saying it was an Olds 350 - people were impressed with his times until they found out it was actually a 455.]
2) Buick 455 in a 3rd gen Camaro at Bandimere this past season. Ran mid 15's. Only saw it out there once.

Different is only worth so much, and can be accomplished with a paint can.

------------------
82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R4. 2.93 limited slip. 2-1/2" cat-back, ZZ3 intake, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (LG4 CC system w/'87 LB9 block, ZZ3 cam, ported World 305 heads, Hooker 2055 headers, 3" Catco cat & 3" catback, restalled TC, Spohn SFCs).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. '66 396, 9.7 CR forged TRWs, Weiand Action+, Holley 750VS w/4150 conversion, GK 270 cam, Magnum rockers, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" Hedders & 3" Warlocks, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, MegaShifter, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Idles smooth @ 600 RPM in D. Best 15.02/95.06 @ 5800' Bandimere (corrected 13.93/102.4 @ sea level).

 

The BOP 455's aren't junk, they just cost a lot more to get the same HP as a BBC. Even a 500 Caddy is a good torque monster if you keep it under 5000 rpm. The valve train won't go higher than that.

The B and C casting Olds heads are the best. I've never used an E casting.

I've considered picking up a Toronado 455 myself. This year they started a front wheel drive drag racing class. No dial-in, no breakout. Heads up racing, first one to the end wins. Since the Toronado is front wheel drive it could enter the class. It would be a boat beside all the imports. The winner at the last race I saw was a Plymouth Arrow running 12's.

 

BBC is really an overrated engine, if any of you have been folling the car craft big block showdown the've built a 455 olds buick pontiac 454 chevy, i think the also did a 460 ford and 440 mopar and the winner?,..............drum roll,......the 455 buick! thats right. really this is probley the most underrated engine, in the test (in this months car craft) made 555 HP and i belive around 600 ft lbs. its an absolutle powerhouse and if you follow the pure stock drags the big heavy 4,200 pound GS's with the stage-1 455's with all the options are in the top 5 in all the events and often taking all the top 5, also the 70' stage 1 was 4 tenths faster stock then the WAAYY overhyped LS-6 454. anyone ever watch my classic car with the ls-6 that ran like high 13's while the GS with dennis and the camera dude in back ran mid/high 12's all day, just with minor tuning, stone stock! not to mention the 455 buick is the lightest big block, it only weights about 510 lbs, the 350 chev weights 490! and the BBC around 700. really dollor for dollor that BBC is not the best, and the caddy 500 is the real jewel, there was a guy at the track with a 86' elcamino, stone stock 500 caddy, only thing it had was duel exhaust out of the stock manifolds and it was runnint 13.3's all day long! thats pretty impressive any way you look at it,

 

So many opinions, so many valid points, but I DO keep up with Car Craft I DID read the articles on big blocks, and I KNOW there is potential, lots of it, with this motor. I appreciate all of your input, even the ones that state they wouldn't mess with it. But I still plan on going through with this, but I just need names and addresses to get the conversion kits, if there is one. Thanks again and keep the comments coming.

 

heres butlers page for the pontiac swap kit (give them a call) http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/

heres buick, they dont list a 3rd gen setup, but give them a call, they should help you out

http://www.taperformance.com/

heres olds mondello will know what you can do, he's the olds master.
http://www.mondellotwister.com/

 

GREAT! Many thanks. I'll look into that this next week. Hoping to have the engine out and on a stand to tear it down over the next month. The fun is just beginning...

 

I'll retract my statement from above. I didn't realize you were going to rebuilt the motor proper. In that case you've got some serious potential. Like people have well explained above the BOP 455 engines are simply brutal and under-appreciated for their potential.

 

sup greg
Its gonna cost some money, but I think it will move once you get it in. 15 seconds...I dont think so! The 455 olds is a torquey engine, that can pull a 4000lb 442 into 13's pretty much stock. If you can get the power to the ground reasonably you should get some nice results. Built 12 bolt rear (4.1X), built th400, high stall, and some Serious tires are all a must after getting it in. Find the right cam and maybe you could even run the J heads. I'd look for a better set (these kind of suck).
Good luck man...let us know when you get it in!
peace

[This message has been edited by 85transamtpi (edited October 29, 2001).]

 

Well thanks for the info. and the boost of confidence. Yeah, it's definately going to cost some money, but I did find a Car Craft where they built a 455 olds. and it made 570 lbs of torque under 3500 RPM's! That's crazy. I won't be able to keep traction. I just bought, 4 months ago, some Torq. Thrust II's for my car, 16x8, so I won't go out and buy new wheels. However, I'm going to have to buy sub-frame connectors and traction bars. This is going to be a drawn out project. I'm in college so money isn't exactly flowing, and that's what I need for this project! (As everyone does.) But I'll definately keep you guys posted!

 

Well guys, there's been a little change of plans. Do to some of your wisdom, and some thinking of my own; I've decided to continue with my Big block build up in my Firebird. But I've decided to try and trade my 455 Olds. for a 454 Chevy. The motor mounts in my car will fit a 454 and so will my transmission. (Much less work.) So, does anyone want to trade a 454 for my 455...?

 

I'm going on with it. Only, an Olds 350. I like the Olds engines the most of BOP and i have one ready to go. The hardest part will be the left side exaust, and searching out accesory mounting brackets. Once i get it figured out, i'll put in the 455. Hopefully, the exaust will strech enough to line up with the 455. Only trial and error will tell. I'm cutting up my '83 and will be able to trial fit everything in it before touching the '82.

No real reason, just want to try it. This 350 is built with new everything and will be cheaper to swap than build a SBC.

Let me know folks if anyone runs across exaust for this swap. Thanks.

------------------
Kenney
82 Trans Am WS7 notchback
83 Trans Am WS6 T-tops
Painter @ Chevy dealer
GM junkie

 

Jharms,
Lets say you put all this money into this BBC ex.$2,000 Where you could put $1,000
into a SBC and get the same numbers hp,et,whatever. The f-body is heavy to start out with why add a boat anchor to the front end? Just a little bit of my two since

 

first off, the power potential is greater for a big block. The cost is quite a bit higher, I'll give you that. However, since money isn't exactly free flowing with me I was considering a SBC. I'm thinking stroker, but I just don't know now. I can't seem to find anyone wiling to swap me a 454 for my 455, since the 455 is going to require quite a bit of ingenuity to make it work and I just don't want that big of a hassle. I have to evaluate what I want out of my car, and that is simply to beat the new Z28's running around my town. A 350 could easily do that... Maybe you're right.

 

swapp in a 454 is going to be as much of a pain in the as$ if not more then that 455, i would just go ahead with the 455, you've got it, and you know it runs, why take a chance?

 

The 454 bolts right on to my transmission and motor mounts, if I heard correctly. The 455 doesn't. Finding the kits to make the 455 bolt into my engine mounts and transmission are a pain. I've looked for a while yet, and haven't found anything. That's why I was thinking 454.

 

i have one right now i've used and its great, it a TCI trans adapter. summit and jeg's sell it, also the BB will not fit the regualr SB mounts, you have to swap it in eather way.

 

In summit? Interesting. Where can I find the motor mounts to make it work? I've loooked but didn't see it in summit. Must be me. Thanks for the info. With that knowledge, I can get started on that engine!!!!!

 

yes the BBC will bolt on to the STOCK SBC mounts. mine's bolt to the factory original mounts. Tempest, unless you have performed this swap, maybe you should double check your facts.

------------------
85 Berlinetta Iroc exterior NOW 454 powered, 4.10 gears, 275/60/15 Hoosier Quicktimes freshly installed th350 3200 stall, shift kit, reworked valvebody, Megashifter, Biondo linelock ..........YES, it's street driven!

check it out at http://www.bsronline.net

 

Well the real question for me is, will my Olds. 455 bolt onto my stock motor mounts? I did find that conversion kit for my tranny. in Jegs, it was under transmission conversion kits. Why couldn't I figure that out 4 weeks ago?! Any way, thanks for all your help, the 455 is getting turn down right now, to get the oil passages widened for better flow, and then it's off to the machine shop!

 

it will not fit to the stock engine mounts, you will want to get in touch with mondello performance (they do all the olds stuff i dont know there website off hand) or go to www.442.com there should also be some info there.

 

I found the mondello performance sight and it's great! Thanks for that info.!

 

do you have any idea the amount you will have to pay for custom headers?....like a grand...not the cheapest swap just because of the price of custom headers.

 

im sure olds makes shortys also, the buicks and pontiacs allready have them out.

 

they don't make shorty headers for a swap into a third gen. One of those 455 'Birds in Hotrod (or Car Craft) was running manifolds because of the lack of clearence.

------------------
85 Berlinetta Iroc exterior NOW 454 powered, 4.10 gears, 275/60/15 Hoosier Quicktimes freshly installed th350 3200 stall, shift kit, reworked valvebody, Megashifter, Biondo linelock ..........YES, it's street driven!

check it out at http://www.bsronline.net

 

Unfortunately I was thinking the same thing...manifold. I don't like the idea, but I can always add that custom exhaust system later, when I have more money!

 

I run manifolds on my 454, they don't work too bad. Thety did spend alot of time under my die grinder, but still there's no way they flow as much as a good set of headers, but for $50 plus 2 carbide bits, i couldn't beat the price.

------------------
85 Berlinetta Iroc exterior NOW 454 powered, 4.10 gears, 275/60/15 Hoosier Quicktimes freshly installed th350 3200 stall, shift kit, reworked valvebody, Megashifter, Biondo linelock ..........YES, it's street driven!

check it out at http://www.bsronline.net

 

Exactly, and since the manifolds came with my engine, two bits is a HECK of alot cheaper than some headers... They'll be on there eventually though.

 

Mondello has a conversion kit that'll make the 455 drop into my Firebird. Now, what kind of heads should I run? My friend is trying to convince me to just keep the stock heads, maybe port them and new springs, but leave it cast. I wanted to go aluminum. He said I'd make to much power and wouldn't be able to handle it... Probably but I don't want to have mess with my engine, as far as diff. after market parts are concerned, once I drop the engine in my car. Will there be that much of a power diff. between aliminum and the factory, assuming I have them ported?

 

as far as manifolds go, in a back issue of car craft, I think, they did a comparison with a poncho 400 with 70's "log" manifolds, factory long branch headers & aftermarket tube headers. the difference betwwen the (ed: log) manifolds & the aftermarket headers was about 20 hp & the same w/ tq. not sure about the olds manifolds but something to think about.

[This message has been edited by Project: 85 2.8 bird (edited November 29, 2001).]

 

actually the pontiac long branch manifolds are allmost as good as headers, alot of people like to run them as there still a more shorty header design, the olds logs are even more resctive. i would do the following things manditory, 1.) put in a bigger cam, while your at it its also a good time to put in a new timing chain 2.) new intake, a 76' will have a smogged out very resctive intake, a edelbrock performer is an excellent choice) 3.) new heads would be a good idea, look on the side of the head closest to the front, there will be a big letter that will be the heads code, givin its a 76' most likely will be a J these are junk, no need for aluminum just find a set of B C or E casting heads, these are the best stock heads you can get (C's are the best but any of the 3 will work) with fresh heads, shorty headers, cam and intake that 455 will move!

[This message has been edited by TempesT68 (edited November 29, 2001).]

 

So the "C" heads are just as good? I found a pair of redone C heads on E-bay for $300. If they're a really good head, maybe not as good as edelbrock's aluminum heads, but if they're close, I don't see the point in paying another $1,000! Opinions?

 

300 for a set of done ones is a steal! you'd have to spend at least 150$-200$ alone just to get them redone, i would go for them foresure! no need to spend a fortune on the edelbrock heads.

 

Well I went to bid on those heads on E-bay and couldn't find them anymore! ( But at least I know now and will keep my eyes open. I did find an Edelbrock torqer intake, are those descent? Or should I opt for the Performer RPM instead? Thanks!

 

intake selection depends on how you are goiong to drive the beast. The torker is mainly used for racing, the RPM for street/strip (everyday if you want), and performer for everyday use. All should require the use of a cowl induction or aftermarket hood for clearence, unless you just put on a hood scoop.

 

I want it street/strip. I already have a 2 inch cowl hood, I was planning this 2 years ago... (at least a bigger engine anyway, not a 455) Thanks for the info. I'll probably go with the Performer RPM then.

 

they dont make an RPM for the 455 olds, just the performer and the torker, the toker right is race only, and the performer is more then fine for a street/strip car as the olds and all BOP 455's make all there power right off the bat and dont need to spin to make power like a SBC.

 

Oh, well thanks for clarifying then! I would have been looking for a Performer RPM for a while! I'll go with the Performer then. Anyone have any advice as to the cam I should go with? I heard the Edelbrock cam wasn't to great.