hey guys im just getting serious about pumping up the lb9 ive got (87' 305 tpi), ive been doing alot of reading.
I wanna see if i got this right, to build up an engines potential... even thought some of u might not agree on putting all the work into a 305 i WILL because its a slightly higher revving motor that is reliable enough, so correct me if im wrong....

to get the best output from an engine such as this i should start with exhaust (headers thinking bout making it hooker performance headers), got flowmaster catback on already, then i should polish + port the heads, then once thats done swap the camshafts to match the better intake manifold i install..( thinking about a stealth ram)

now if i did this to the engine will the t5 transmission that came stock on this car hold up to the added strain, and if so will the 10 bolt posi rear end ive got hold up to it all?

 

I don't see why not T5 should hold up same with the rear. It's only a 305 so you're not pumping out 400+ hp or anything with the setup you're going to do.

 

first off, a 305 doesn't, and won't, rev any higher than a 350/any other motor. We've got big blocks turning 10k... - anyhow, your list of mods looks good. If you haven't done subframe connectors, do so FIRST! these cars twist enough w/ factory power. Your T-5 is not going to like you much. It'll do ok, but with enough traction, and a high rpm clutch dump... You're biggest help is traction. Unless you have an aftermarket torque arm, control arms and such, you're never gonna hook what that motor will make hard enough to hurt it. The trans will be a problem before your rear. - I'm running 11.7 on a 10-bolt...but its not exactly(not even close) to a stock rear-end.

 

The 305 does have lighter reciprocating mass, lighter valves, and proportionally more intake flow per cubic inch of engine, so all else being equal they have a small advantage turning RPM.

Starting with exhaust is a good idea. Next I'd suggest learning how and getting the ability to tune the engine by calibrating your own EPROMs. While you're learning you could port the heads and install another camshaft. Swapping intake manifolds is very ineffective as one of the first mods to a 305, so I'd suggest waiting a while for that.

 

ok fair enuff a big block turning 10 k
alright im just trying to get an idea of what sort of punishment these transmissions can take.. i dont find very many posts talking about the upper limits of these engine / trans combos...

to do the ecm tuning what should i use a hand console or something else? cuz im gonna need to be able to do that if i ever hope to reach the level i hope to get to one day

what would be the basic steps in prom tuning?

 

Using a laptop for scanning and tuning is the better way to go.
Read the stickies here in the DIY PROM section
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/for...php?forumid=16

 

A 305 will benefit from an intake swap just as any other motor.... the TPI is one of his biggest drawbacks at this point, besides exhaust. The heads are "Ok," the cam if the L98 profile is "More than Ok" but long runners... well, they are okay for trucks. Obviously, doing the P/P, cam, and HSR would be... well... like a new lease on life for that engine.

Anyway, your 87 rear is a little weaker than the later ones, and I don't think the T5 is WC. Honestly, I'd be more concerned about the T5 than the rear. I don't know how many miles are on your car, but a new set of injectors should be high on your list, simply because they are so crucial to everything that goes on. Ask some of the guys that switch to new units - it's night and day, and they never even knew the old ones were as bad as they were because they didn't have anything to compare to.

PROM Burning = No questions asked, must have.

 

Ok, so i guess i should just get a set of 350 injectors on the block right? whats a set of 8 new ones go for anyways? and for the engine to run those properly i will need to reprogram the prom rite.. lb/ hr is a function of the prom as i read in one of the articles ...rite?

my cars got about 180 000 kilometers on it...
thats about 113 thousand miles for all yas americans out there, 305 injectors are 19 lbs/hr? so anything above that should benefit me some rite?

 

Hey, you're in Burnaby? I'm in Coquitlam. Are you on vancouverfbody?

From the sound of it, all you have on the car so far is a catback? I think you should be fine with the injectors you have now. just or get them cleaned if you must. An adjustable fuel pressure regulator would probably be more beneficial.

You could also make a custom cold air intake with a cone filter and a $5 shopping spree at home depot. But basically just getting the engine breathing better (intake/exhaust) will be the best place to start

If you're on vancouverfbody.com you should check the for sale forums. I've gotten some good deals off of there. Some slightly rusty edelbrock headers for 100 bucks. Can't go wrong with that.

 

o really? thx for the advice knight.. haha slightly rusty eh but still good as long as it wont breach any time soon.. ill go ahead and sign up on there..
im planning on buying an intake plenum top / bottom that comes with a fpr, but will it change anything if i still use the same injectors.. cuz even if i do raise the boost isnt the line close to the max stock?

 

forgot to say... the flowmaster catback system came with the car when i bought it.. i maybe a noob when it comes to auto repair / upgrading (trying to learn and soon will know all =P )
but i wouldnt put on a cat - back system without headers knowing i cant possibly gain much from that as the factory manifold still is the bottleneck... but it sure sounds sweet.. drowns out all the 4 bangers with fart pipes on em.. keeps me happy... for now

 

See the sig. I'll be goin 13.50 once I learn to drive. The 5speed is a little trickier to launch than the automatic I used to have.

 

It will prolly change how often you have to go to the gas station. I'm still no pro myself, but the stock injectors should be fine until your engine is decently modified, just get an afpr and crank the pressure up abit and that should be good until you actually need bigger injectors.

 

Here is my setup
stock 305ci longblock
stock compression
crane roller cam 214/222 488/509
1.5 crane gold roller rockers
Edelbrock base
TPIS runners
ported plenum
Holley 52mm TB
Adj. FPR
350 injectors
MSD ignition
underdrive pulleys
1 5/8 coated edelbrock headers
random tech cat with 3" flowmaster catback

255/50 16 tires
global west control arms, panhard rod, springs, subframe connectors

13.5@103mph with 2.0 60ft

 

you should also look into changing the rear end gears, thats what i have planned for next summer

 

gears are usually one of the best mods. Many of our cars came w/ the 2.77's....leaving much to be desired.

would you plan on building any serious modded/high revving motor on stock heads/valves/pistons? a 305 has the same crank and rods as a 350, just smaller bore. Yes stock 305 heads have slightly smaller valves, but thats the only diff. - Not going to be noticable rpm difference, not even on a dyno.

- and YES 10k on a big block. that was tunnel-rammed w/ twin 1320 cfm dominators. Now we're blown turning around 9600. If you're balanced decent and your heads and cam are suited, you can turn any stroke/bore/ci in general, any rpm you want. The main thing is to turn an rpm where you make power. Not a 4popper HOnda turning 8k thinking he's cool because he can when, actually, he's only making power to 5k.

 

see sig for what I got in my 305

 

i believe my car came with the 3.08 rear-end.. 10 bolts on these cars only had 3.08 or below right? it was the 9 bolt that had the 3.45 ratio?

so it would be best to first pump up the ponies then change gear ratios.. am i correct? cuz it would require more power to move that higher ratio rite..

man i wish i had the kinda budget some of u guys have.. just your list of mods on your signature prolly adds up to more than my cars cost

 

The problem with making a 305 rev high is the bore to stroke ratio, the bores are small but the stroke is long this makes for a good torquey engine but hinders it's ability to rev high. Putting a SR, an LT1, or any other short runner intake on a 305 is going to be to much intake for it and will slow it down, stay with your TPI setup it's ideal for the 305. You should go to TPIS and read what they have to say about the 305's. You will be able to get VERY similar torque out of that 305 as a 350 with the tuned port. Put headers and a good exhaust on it keep your injectors and pump up the fuel pressure to 48psi set your timing somewhat advanced. Before you rip into the motor you're probably going to end up with traction problems this is where the sub frame connectors, lower control arms, and pan hard rod come in. After this you'll have to go into the engine to get more results, a slightly larger cam than stock, ported plenum, base, and heads will make you smile. Once you have all this you'll need to learn to program your own proms and use a scan tool on the motor. Finally when the 305 keels over on you you can easily port the top end over to a 350 block.

 

10 bolts also came with several rear end gears, yours probably has the 3.08 gears. There's speed to be had by going to 3.55's or 3.73's (get a rear end girdle while you're in there) you're going to get traction problems with this mod, do sub frames, lower control arms, and a pan hard rod that'll get the car hooking with the steeper gears and will make a VERY noticable difference in your car.

 

I think you should start off by adding headers. That was probably the best vang fort the buck on my car. It went from 14.80's to 14.30's just adding headers. The injectors will be enough to feed a low 13 high 12 second 305 I'm still running them and my car runs 13.20's on motor and 11.80's with 160 shot. I still have the stock ten bolt I am surprised it's still together the car pulls low 1.5 60's on the spray. the rest of my mods are listed in my sig. Also I am selling everything from this combo if anyone is interesed I have a few things listed in the forsale section

 

I don't remeber mentioning anything about the flow rate of the injectors...... ......Clean injectors, that open and close on time are a must if he's going to be taking off the fuel rail and has over 100K on the engine. At least, it's been my experience that the car will still run okay with old units, but GREAT with new ones, which I thought is what he was going for here. Who's going to now argue that old injectors are better than new, or that the old injectors won't be gum'ed up, or - and most laughably - that the injectors won't have gotten lazy after 15+ years. It's hard to argue once you feel how car after car runs with new injectors compared to old. I guess without that experience, this post would be lost on most readers.

 

I've been there and done that a few times on different f-bodies. A TBI car, a few TPIs...

I suggest doing all the easy bolt on stuff first. Get used to the car and how changes effect it. See how you feel about it after dumping a few $$ into the car.

Mods expense always multiply they always cost more than expected. Everyone talks a big mod until they get 1/2 way into a build up that is already twice as expensive as it was supposed to be and now the car is off the road until they get the coin to finish what they started (been there and done that to)...

Do some prom burning to see if you have the stomach for real changes to the system. You will want to go to a 350 or 400 soon enough.

Headers to exhaust tip is a good enough place to start but expensive to do. Its worth it though a full exhuast upgrade turns the 305 into a different motor it behaves way differently and sounds great

I'd save the intake though -- I've never seen a 305 get impressive gains out of an intake unless the heads supported it. I've seen a few cars do better with an upgrade to the runners and I've never heard a long term success story with a stealth ram/305 combo.

The best deal is checking this site for examples of who has done what and what they say about it afterwards.

By the way the first upgrade should be sticky tires that work well in the rain -- you do live in vancouver eh?

 

Save your cash on the PH bar , it has nothing to do with your 1/4 mile time . All it does is stabloize the rearend from shifting side to side . Get the LCA's but , also with relocation brackets . THAT will help with traction. Also an adjustable TQ arm aswell. But it will put an end to both the T-5 and the 10 bolt rear. You have 26 spline axles . My friend almost put his car into the wall when he spit his axle ( car runs high 12's ) . So I'd be carefull when you start raceing it .

For safety sake , get a set of rear discs on there. The will keep the whell and axle from flying off if you brake it . That T-5 is NOT gonna last . Especially when you are shifting it hard in the 1/4. My W/C T-5 didn't hold up to my stock 305 TPI. SO be prepared.

There are other questions to be answered first before you just throw some parts at it .

.....like emissions , how fast do ya wanna go , how much cash you got ... how driveable do you want it ? or is it a track only car.

 

"Save your cash on the PH bar , it has nothing to do with your 1/4 mile time"
This is absolutly wrong, my car with lower control arms would wheel hop like crazy until I swapped in the tubular pan hard rod, you may be able to keep the pan hard rod if you go with an aftermarket torque arm, you may not. The pan hard rod essential to in getting your car to hook hard and straight. My car would kick to the passenger side HARD until I replaced that pan hard rod now it hooks straight as an arrow.

 

d@mmit I messed that post up, the pan hard rod is essential to getting the car to hook straight is what I completely blew my wording on. The rear being able to deflect to one side or the other can cause wheel hop I've had it happen. The aftermarket torque arms are better about keeping the rear end centered but that's not there main job, that's what the pan hard rod is there for. Also the control arms I put on my car were tubular when it still wheel hopped, same guy made me a pan hard rod and that fixed it.

 

pwdbychevy has had a superram on a 305 for some time with very impressive results....Granted he has heads as well, but there's absolutely no reason to say that a HSR wouldn't work well either, with or without head work. It will just work well someplace other than 2500 RPM, like 3500 RPM for instance. Maybe not as well as a 305 with head work past 4500 RPM, but come on, who seriously would expect that it would?

Not being mean/sarcastic/etc. - just saying that sometimes things have to get done in steps to get to one ultimate goal, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

tubular pan hard rod what is it? where does it go on my car?

 

The pan hard rod is the big long bar that runs across your rear end and hooks to the cars body, from there it has another part that goes to the other side of the body making a siccor shape, it keeps the rear end centered under your car.

 

I hear yah. Thats why I said "long term".

Sure you gotta start somewhere why not an HSR on a 305? Good a place as any. I like the 305 just like the tq of a 350 more.

I think Ds89iroc is more to the point -- the guy has to figure out what he wants. Just going faster can be had with nitrous why bother with the rest?

 

Have to disagree

The factory LCAs and panhard are good enough for any street work, some autocross and most 1320.

In fact the Firehawks only got upgraded bushings otherwise exact same equipment as stock.

If you see improved 60 foot times after an LCA and PH upgrade my money is on the bushings that came with them that made the real difference and not the tubular bars.

 

Man, I'm having trouble read through how you have your post written.... I'm not sure if you are pro-305/HSR or anti-305/HSR. Simply put, I'm pro 305/HSR. Nitrous is a whole topic on it's own - I'm anti nitrous - I've seen some very unhealthy bearings, rings, and piston tops come out of nitrous fed motors, that still ran. But that's just IMO.

 

So what I was trying to say is if you want to HSR your 305 then good on you let us know how it turns out? It would be interesting to see how it effects a 305. Neither pro nor con. I chose Accel intake and LTRs as the most bang for my emissions compliant buck...

 

firstly the car came stock with rear discs..
tats alot of varying imput so far.. i guess i shoulda metnioned this earlier.. what im hoping to build is a car that is quick but still works as an everyday driver.. also i dont want to have to spend the amount of a new car on this one if at all possible.. im hoping that maybe with a couple grand i can change the characteristics of this car.. cuz the headers alone should go about 400$, the clutch i hope to get, another 350$.
always see these ppl squeezing ponies out of little 4 bangers why cant i do the same to a bigger engine like this

 

Wow these 305 posts really do get confusing, I thought I had posted something in here I hadn't. DONT go with the Stealth ram. You'll lose low end torque and it's not worth it on a 305. Get your fuel pressure up to around 47psi do headers and exhaust (I used the 90 dollar Headmans they've worked great for 3 years now) tune the car up and hand port your tpi plenum. My friend who introduced me to 3rd gen Camaros had an 89 Camaro that he had put a 350 fuel pump, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and advanced the timing in. He ran stock exhuast manifolds and 3in exhaust with a muffler where the cat used to be, the exhaust ended at the rear axle. He then set the timing more advanced than stock. This car would run with LT1's and was faster than his current 94 formula with the 6 speed (Camaro was a 5 speed). The TPI and the 305 are a near ideal combination for the street, stick with your intake and if you do mods beyond bolt ons get the heads port and polished and do a larger cam with a short duration (around 210 degrees at .50).

 

You can. You don't have to go all at once. As stated, exhaust, suspension, gearing, intake(porting/aftermarket). You'll just keep seeing gains. - MUCH Bigger gains than the 4 popper guys, and much more to begin with. -
- As for the pan hard bar arguement, I'm going 1.66 60 fts w/ a stock panhard, and I'm on 17's. I'm going to have one, but my whole lay-out is going to be WAY different. As in full chassis, engine set-back kind of different...

 

To respond to the pan hard statements, mine was straight when I put it in and a pretzel when I took it out. This was with the tubular LCA's. If your pan hard works for you, no need to change it; mine didn't and it wasn't the old bushings causing the problems it was the weakness of the stock unit. A 4th gen guy in our town actually replaced his pan hard rod because it bent using stock boxed in lower control arms with stock bushings. This car was running an aftermarket torque arm and hooked like mad. As I said before if your pan hard holds up no need to change it, I've had experience with them causing problems and this causes me to believe they're worth the money to change out when you do the LCA's.

 

what i plan on doing is porting the plenum and runners, cold air intake, headers w/3in exhaust and some fuel mods you guys mentioned. timing i am not for sure how much to advance any suggestions?

i don't think i will get into heads or a cam, i'd just save and opt for a 350 or something.

i am still trying to figure out what rear end gears i have, at around 80mph i am around 3500-3800 rpms

pan hard rod i am still in the dark about,since this is my first rwd car i am new to alot of things. i've had 2 fwd's that were turbo one a 4 and one a 6 cyclinder.

so i am still learning thanks again guys

 

Sounds like you know what you're after that's good. As for the pan hard rod if you don't wheel hop, you probably don't need one. I installed Walbro 255lph pump in my tank and it bumped my fuel pressure up to 45psi at idle and 48 with the throttle open, I would recommend this over an adjustable fuel pressure regulator because it's a stronger pump and about the same price. Base timing on these cars is 6 degrees, you can usually get away with 10 to 12. I adjust mine by ear because I don't have a timing light at the minute, but i also have a digicon timing pc so i don't have to get out to make adjustments. I'm pretty much done out on the free mods as we speak, I cut the air box out, installed K&N filters, throttle body air foil, fuel pump, adjusted the TPS and IAC, ported the plenum (also cleaned up the runners), headers, exhaust, MSD box, Holly coil, Holly module, Accel plug wires, NGK plugs, 160 T stat, and wired the fan to a switch on the console. This was all done on a conversion so I can't tell you how the car ran initially, all I can tell you is it runs good now. Good luck with the build up.

 

when you adjust the tps and iac what exactly are you doing to them? any idea on how much power you may have? so fuel pressure seems to be something big on these tpi's?

 

ok guys now im getting sorta confused here..
i thought if i were to buy an intake manifold stealth ram, edelbrock, and that other one forget the name remind me..
buy one of those slap it in put on some new headers got a cold air system + ignition coil, + port the heads, and a better cam later on down the road (+SFC's as ive learned are important thanks to your posts), then wouldnt the car be making the same sort of torque just later on the torque band? and wouldnt the HP be up overall greatly..
btw how much does a head port and polish run for at a machine shop?
and where can i find headman headers? does lordco sell em for 90$???
maybe i could go to one of your guys' garages and u could do some of this stuff for me for a case of beer
so u guys say that this engine cant make use of an intake moving that much air? or the stroke is just too long and needs longer runners as is stock?

 

I don't own a 305 - but there is no reason that a HSR wouldn't work well with one. Why wouldn't it, because it's a 305? There are members with superram's on 305's, so why not HSR's Because it will lose low end torque? SO? So will any engine. LOW END Torque is great for moving something off the line, or breaking things (his T5 or rear), but once you get past the first 330 feet, the midrange torque is going to win the race, period.

I'll trade 30 ft/lbs from 2400-3100 RPM for an extra 40-50+ ft/lbs from 3200-5000 any day of the week. That extra midrange torque will yeild more horsepower, and will help pull me across that line quicker, because after first gear, you will never see 2400RPM again. You spend A LOT more time between 3000-5000 RPM in a race down the quarter. I think only a fool wouldn't if he wanted to have quicker ET's.

Then agian, low end torque is fun around town - so beauty is held in the eye of the beholder I suppose.

 

Directly from TPIS:

"Q: I have a 305 camaro and was wondering how your Mini-Ram would work with it?
A: The Mini-Ram was designed for a 350ci motor or bigger. The problem with the Mini-Ram on a 305 is bottom end torque. The Mini-Ram has about a three inch runner, where the tpi has a seventeen inch long runner, so your bottom end will suffer on a 305 with the Mini-Ram. Unless your running a turbo or a supercharged 305, the Mini-Ram is just too much intake for a 305 motor."

You're going to have a real time fitting bigger valves in the 305 heads without shrounding. The HSR isn't going to benefit you without different heads, you're going to suffer from it's use. I can't recommend you go with the small runner intake on such a small engine with small heads. The entire engine is built to build torque not HP so sticking a high HP intake on that it's going to suffer. My recommendation is for your street engine, later on if you upgrade to a 350 with better flowing heads I'd look into the HSR for now I would keep what you have; it's a good combination.

 

I now feel enlightened to know how TPIS feels about their MiniRam and a 305, thank you......





ps - you're a moron.



A 283 cubic inch engine or a 420 cubic inch engine would all suffer in low end torque when swapping intakes. Who cares when you can gain an equal amount or more in midrange/high end torque? It just depends where you want it. If you want to travel 1320 faster than you currently are, look to build torque in that 3000-5000 RPM range, period. If you want to burn tires and impress high school girls, well TPI RULES BABY!

 

I'd take a serious look at the HSR (no matter what small block I had) if the setup was emission compliant. There is no EGR... IMO it should have one.

By the way what has the mini-ram to do with this thread? I thought JohnnyBravo was asking about HSR and his 305?

 

Sorry guys I was thinking the Stealth ram was a knock off of the TPIS mini ram and the LT1 style intakes. It has longer runners so you should retain alot of your bottom end torque. I had never researched the HSR until today, very nice looking unit!

 

Don't buy performance parts from Lordco, only go there for replacement parts. They'll rip you off on perforamnce parts. Go to Best Buy Performance in Surrey. Hmm I don't have their number or address on me, but you should look em up in the phone book, or someone on vancouverfbody.com will know the info. Thats where most people I know go for their parts.

 

ty white knight i had not even heard of them before

 

As others and I have already said, Yes, a Stealthram would work. You might not see as big of a gain w/ it as a 350, but still going to see a gain.
Syn- What concerns me is your rpm. Are you really turning 35-3800 @ 80mph? in overdrive? if so, your gearing is way off. allowing for a 26" tire(common on 3rd gen) and a .70 OD 5th gear, you'd have to have about a 4.88 gear! that'd be ludicrous w/ a TPI!

- As for the heads, a bowl blend does wonders. Then possibly just square up/gasket match the ports. That plus a good cam, you'd really like the Stealthram.

 

so would the average machine shop be able to port and polish the heads ive got? and if so how much would it run me, if not how would i go about porting and polishing them?
can anyone give me the # for best buy performance of surrey..
o yeah can u guys clear something up.. these gear ratios u guys are talking about it is the final output ratio of the axle after the transmission? so if my output is 3.08 that means for each rev of the engine / trans its 3.08 spins of the wheels?
or is it the other way around 3.08 revs of the engine = one rev at the rear axle?
so if i change the final output i would need more power to compensate for the change in gearing right?
wouldnt the factory have already included the best combo for performance?