Just wondering. I have had Jegsters, they suck. I got some LG Motorsports ones for my 4th gen and they rock.

I hear Alstons are good but was also wondering if there are any alternatives. I also hear Spohns are good but do not actually connect the subframe either.

I bet the Competition engineering bolt ons are just like the Jegsters. I want tubular ones because they seem to be stronger IMO.

 

have you looked at the kenny browns. those seem bulky and strong. i think they connect to the subframe. only thing is they dont have tubular ones.

 

the kenny brown's are tubular, but they are a similar design to spohn. I like tha design better because it ties in the floor pan as well and you can use it as a jacking point.

 

You heard wrong- what are you looking for performance wise out of your car- Handling or drag racing?

 

well i dont have ALL SFCs but doesnt it stand to reason that subframe connectors connect the subframes? i know my spohn ones do. they are welded right on there and tacked along the floorboards.
maybe im confused?

 

Yes they do.

Let me clarify the difference of Alstons to Spohns.

Alstons are only good for drag racing. Why? They have an inadequate design to prevent lateral twist. They only support front to rear stiffness, thus designed for weight transfer on launch. The inboard design still allows for the car to twist like a wet rag being wrung out during cornering.

Spohns SFC's are an outer rail design with inboard ties for lateral support, as well as the outer radial stiffness helps prevent chassis twist (does not eliminate, only helps greater to prevent- Only a full cage installed with proper triangulates will eliminate chassis twist entirely.) The only ill effect spohns units have to handling over Alstons is polar weight (thats more weight/distance from CG) But this is very minor in relation to the major improvement of chassis stiffness and overall tire contact patches.

 

well... sort of. The Spohn units connect TO the front subframe, but they DO NOT connect the front subframe to the rear subframe. They only triangulate the front subframe to the outer rail and stiffen the chassis along the rail, which is not a bad thing, it just doesn't truly connect the front and rear subframes. If you're undecided, why not run both!? (it can be done)

 

You need to get under your car and look again at the unibody. Here's a picture that I circled in red where the Shopn units weld to the front. In those areas you can see the larger sytock structural brace that runs inward to the inner subframe area- so yes, Spohns desin does connect the rear and front together even without the added outer to inner aftermarket braces he supplies with them.

 

Dean,

I'm with ya on the connection to the front subframe (lateral piece from the rail to the subframe), but I'm not quite seeing the connection to the rear- at least, not directly.


BTW, those are some pretty f**kin beefy lookin' SFC's ya got there...

 

1st off, thats not my car- just a great reference picture that has been floating around these boards. I believe those are the older boxes design Spohn SFC's on it.

Heres where the rear ties in- Directly to where it counts, the LCA mounts. Thats where the forward thrust comes from the axle to push the car/ The tq arm lifts the car, the LCA's push it.

 

when we installed my spohn SFCs (the tubular ones) we welded them to the front subframe (on the drivers side it raised up nicely into that 'notch' that you will see if you get under there- and on the passengers side it butts up agains the subframe) and then on the rears, they get welded onto the subframe right at the end where the hole is for the LCA bolt to go through.

i dont think im confused.
am i?
LOL

 

I think I know where yer comin' from now. Makes sense. Guess I'll install both on my 'vert.

But if it's forward thrust that you're trying to combat, I thought the Alston's were better for that? What about the twisties?

 

.

 

I thought I clarifed this above with the pictures and explaination. But if not, I perfer Spohns style. They connect in the rear directly to the LCA mounts(rear surcial suspension support) then are tack welded along the entire outside rail for torsion and lateral stiffness, then connect to the front braces that tie directly into the inner subframe rails. In additon, they have added outer to inner cross bracing. Spohns are a much, much superior design for a road car. I would even perfer them on a drag car also.

The Alstons mount inboard only and are too narrow of support for any benefit of lateral handling. The frame will still twist.

 

to answer your question... alston and MAC.


however IMO the outer edge style are of a better design.

 

The S&W ones offer a bit of both. They connect the front and rear subframes as well as have an integral second crossmember and bars that tie into the outer pinchwelds. They could use some more perimeter support to fight off chassis twist, but like Dean said, only cage will solve that problem entirely.

The other benefit is mounting the Torque Arm to the crossmember instead of the trans tailshaft housing..... And the integral driveshaft loop they come with.

Here's a paint-shopped simulated pic of how the S&Ws are laid out:

 

do you know if that setup offers adequate clearance for a stock 3" single exhaust? also, where can S&W parts be purchased?

 

if you have aconvertible the spohns wont fit as they have addl bracing in that area already!!be sure to chk this out

 

umm.. sphon has convertible SFCs....



basicly they are 3 straight pieces of tubing... and one tube that has 2 bends in it...... personally, i think its a rip off for $185 but the man has a good rep and can sell it for that price... so whatever.....



http://www.spohn.net/product.cfm?productid=1389

 

Yep, I have a 4" that fits easily.

I think you have to go through S&W directly.

 

Yeah... what he said. The only real difference with the convertible ones is the lateral brace is shorter to compensate for the extra reinforcement that ASC installed along the outer rail.



Well, you may be right but something is only worth what people are willing to pay for it. For $185, it's not worth my time to go look for the proper tubing, cut it to the correct lengths and try to put the proper bends in it. Nevermind the fact that I have absolutely none of the equipment to properly do any of the aforementioned processes.

 

Actually there are some other dimensional differences, they look and run the same, just hold different dimensions to clear the factory braces.

I always like how some people say $185.00 for some tubing. Well, you're buying more then tubing. You're buying labor, insurance, taxes, mortgage, heat, phone, advertising, electric, etc, etc., etc. It's the cost of doing business that has to be figued into prices. The bills gotta get paid to keep the shop running.

Agood2.8 has his act together, couldn't have explained it better myself. I've been biting my tongue for a long time on some of these SFC posts. Besides what was stated, the only thing I would throw in is you will have no ground clearance loss or y-pipe problems with our SFCs.

If you want to see SFCs that don't connect the front and rear subframes, look at the Jeg's.

Steve

 

im happy as can be with the tubular SFC's i bought from you Steve

 

i dont wanna hijack the thread but , will a t56 go in with no mods to the alstons and spohn ones. I might put in a t56 and dont wanna have to mod the sfc to clear the diff crossmember.

 

If you have a 6-speed AND longtube headers (like me), then you are going to want to use the Hotchkis sub-frame connectors due to needing room for y-pipe.

 

You're absolutely right, Steve, I was just trying to put it in terms of my own reasoning as to why $185 was not an unfair price. I think I'm going to install both types in conjunction on my 'vert- that chassis shakes like a wet noodle when it's going down the road...

Ok, so I think that the subframe connectors 101 class is officially over... I am hereby enlightened. Thanks to Profs. Dean and Steve for their input.

 

I think I know what you're asking here. If you're installing a T-56, it sits back further in the car, therefore the crossmember will be back further. You will have to mod the crossmember and/or Alston SFCs if you have them in your car.

Our SFCs do not interfere with the transmission crossmember mounting. Hope this answers your question.

Steve

 

you hit the nail on the head steve, i guess im goin with spohn style sfcs next year when the car goes back on the road, thanks .

 

i think i'm pretty much sold on Spohn products. they'll definitely be getting business from me when i start modding my TA.

 

Thank you for the good words but, I'm no professional- Steve (Mr Spohn) Does this for a living, I'm just a hobbyist who is self taught from years of driving and tinkering and driving again.

I think my best experience in life has been driving my chev 1/2ton work truck. It too is fully modified underneath (and lowered) but I always have a different load in the rear for carrying tools, materials etc.- I'm in the ceramic tile and Marble business, I haul alot of different crap. I set this truck up with on- the- fly adjustable shock and assisted airbag suspension controls and can basically adjust out any push or loose condition based on weight load, or sometimes even weight shift while driving. I even can set it loose or tight just for fun of a chalanging handfull to keep my driving skills sharp. This has made me a very confident driver in any suspension setup and can press any car to its limit because of this experience. Heck, you should see me 4wh drift this truck with 1000# load in the back and still stop on a dime if necessary (binders not stock either)- it embarasses alot of sportscars

 

.

 

i think he said all his new products are coming out in 04... somthing about moving to a bigger shop..

traditionally, he powdercoats stuff red or black.... id assume that wouldnt change.

wonderbars are just a chassis brace. swaybars are a suspension piece. just because you have one "brand" of wonderbar, doesnt limit your choices for swaybars....

there is no best.

 

.

 

I believe TDS' bars are stock sway bars powder coated. You can ask Lon, I may be wrong.

Our sway bars are solid 4140 chrome moly, thus the price difference. They're a major upgrade from stock.

Steve

 

not that i like to jump on bandwagons or anything, but.........

I have been very happy with my spohn SFC's and although i have been to lazy to install my relocating brackets they also are quality. The best part of Spohn besides his high quality good prices and availability to answer questions is his first rate customer service. Its a pleasure doing business with Spohn Performance, i have had too many bad experiences with others. I can't wait to send hime more money in the spring!

 

Why not just add another small piece of tubing from the LCA mounting point to the rear subframe? Then the spohn's are tied in directly from front to rear subframe.