Is there a crank I could get that would make my 305 bigger? Like a 400 crank or something?

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1984 Firebird SE
1985 Camaro z28 305 engine T-5 Five Speed Tranny, 92 Camaro Leather Seats Console, carpet everything. Soon to put in 700R4 and 427CI. (Hopefully.
To view my car go to:

http://geocities.com/jmboriss/bluecar.html

 

You can stroke it to a 335ci.Powerhouse products sell a kit

 

Powerhouse's web page is www.enginekits.com

Just email them and request a catalog. You'll get it in about 1 wk.

AJ

 

i dont see why a 400 crank wouldn't work, but that would be a really messed up engine with a huge stroke and weeny bore, it would be better to just go 383 if you want a stroker

 

I'm checking out the 335 kit now. It doesn't look like to bad of a deal... It should make the engine a torque monster. You could get a 383, but then you've done what everyone else has done. Sure, it'll be more power, but there isn't anything original about it. Like you, I've got a 305 laying around thats just jonesing to have something cool done to it. Don't expect the thing to outrun the 383, it probably won't happen, but you'll scare the **** out of them.

The kit that you get is pretty much the 400 crank with the custom pistons that you would need. Its a decent price for the cost of getting everything made special, plus your getting all new parts...

Later,
Mike

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1989 RS.. 355, Hypereutectic pistons, double roller cam, double roller timing chain, accel wires, blue streak cap and rotor, rapidfire plugs, chevy caprice 350 chip, 200* fan switch, 3 angle valve job, 3 inch cat-back exhaust, 3 core radiator, 3.73 gearing with POSI.

 

I don't believe you'd scare anything with that, except maybe another 305 owner.

For alot less money, you could install a "bore kit" in your 305 instead. It will give you more cubic inches than the "stroker kit", far mpore power, costs less, requires no special machine work because everything bolts up just like it was meant to, and uses all totally off-the-shelf parts. It's called a "350".

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

good idea, but you forgot the 305 water jacket placement problem that doesn't allow you to do that....unless you already know this and were advising him to get his hands on a 350 block. -Randy

 

Did you catch on to that

 

Why don't you back off?! A 335 would be a great street engine...lets think....tons of torque, decent gas miliage still, and it is original(well more so then your 350). and what are you talking about it being cheaper?! To rebuild a 350 would cost just as much IF NOT MORE....I am thinking about doing this to my 305 sometime in teh future......that or a destroke(327 crank) and .030 bore for a 292. I dunno yet.

 

Rebuilding a 350 doesn't require buying a new crankshaft, it would be cheaper and make more power with the same parts. Its just a waste of money unless you're doing it only to be different. Why in gods name would you destroke a 305?

 

Because a stoked 305 would be supertrick! I want to do it to my LB9

 

I'd run a quarter or eighth with a 338 700r4 against the 350 or the LS1 and I bet that you would drop the bigger motor like a wet fart.

Bigger cubes aren't always better either. If so, then the 305 should beat a 302 and so should a 350. They won't though...

Ok, look into the kit, if its something fun that you want to do, I think that this will be the way to go. The problem is that almost no one here has done it, so they assume that since they can't buy it and throw it in that its junk. These are usually the same people that say that a K&N airfilter should be one of your first "mods". The 305 block has a pretty crappy reputation, but thats cause no one wants to mess around with it. If it were my daily driver, I wouldn't have goofed with it just because I don't have the time to mess around with it all the time.

A 400 crank will work, but you need the custom pistons in the kit...

Lata,
Mike

 

I see all these clueless no bodies bashing the 305, who don't understand how great the 305 is. Why throw away a totally good engine and get a 350? Its 10x more expensive.

Here is some suggested reading for you 305 bashing retards http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/praisetbi.html

I plan on stroking my 305, and boring it over just alittle tiny bit more.

Most of the people bashing 305 have probably never owned one.

I'm all for 305 perforamce. More power to ya!

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un4givin89


Poor Mans White Face Guages
MikeKey.net - Camaro Enthusiast

 

PS: here is a 305 that will bet your 350 asses into the ground : http://members.aol.com/j007golden/joerace.html

 

1984Firebird502,
This kit worked very well in a 84 El Camino I built for a guy.Just don't over cam it!What gears do you have?Or better than that email me complete specs of car and I will give you a couple cam choices

 

The 305 is not junk. At no time did I even begin to hint that it is.

Here's the problem with the 305 for high-perf use:

Anything you can do to a 305, you can do to a 350. Anything you do to a 350 will get 350/305 times the results.

Now I don't know about the rest of you, but when I soend my money, I like to get as much as possible for it.

So let's look at the "stroker" economics. Let's assume that you're going to buy or build a decent set of heads (because if you don't, it won't matter what stroke you've got); you're going to buy a cam, bearings & rings, and so on. Furthermore, let's assume that if you were to build a 350, you would do exactly the same things, for exactly the same reasons. Got the picture?

OK now let's concentrate on the bottom end. For the 305 that is "free", i.e. you already have it, you're going to buy the stroker kit. Then you'll need to do a bunch of grinding. There's a post on this site somewhere right now where a guy is asking if he can get away with using block filler, because of what happens when you grind a block. Then you have to get a flywheel or flex plate, and a harmonic balancer.

The flip side of the coin would be to go to the junkyard, or troll the classifieds or whatever, and buy a 350 engine. You don't have to buy a balancer of flywheel, you can use what you've already got (assuming of course that you buy the correct generation of 350); you don't have to buy the stroker kit; you already have a crank and a set of rods; you'll have to buy pistons if you bore the block of course, which would have come in the stroker kit.

So which one is actually cheaper? Which way do you get more engine for less money?

That, in a nutshell, is what's wrong with stroking a 305.

I don't know where anybody gets the idea that a 302 or a 327 or a 334 will make more power than a 350. We can all tell stories about this or that or the other motor we know that goes fast; but the fact of the matter is, if you equalize everything else around the short block (HEADS) the bigger motor will win, every time. I remember very well what happened when Chevrolet dropped the 302 and started using 350s in Z28s, with the exact same (solid lifter) cam and heads; and it wasn't that the 350 went slower. The 350 was good for about 60 more HP, and I'm not talking about the factory's ratings either, which were an 85 HP difference, but rather real world power. I don't have to "think" that, or be "different", or read magazine articles, or use Desktop Dyno. I was there at the time, I've built 'em both, I've seen the results.

The 350 and 327 are very similar in terms of their RPM range characteristic. They are closer together than a 350 and a 383 for instance, even though the stroke changes by the same 1/4" among all 3. The 350 simply makes more power at every RPM than an equivalently built 327. To think of the situation a different way, if you take the 350's power curve and compare it to an identical 327's, the 327's will be lower at every RPM including where its peak HP occurs, but that lower peak HP will occur at a slightly higher RPM than the 350's. At no RPM will the 327 put out more power than the 350.

Again, there's nothign wrong with a 305 or a 327 as such; it's just that neither of those is the most ecnomically effective way to make power. Dollar for dollar, a 350 even if you have to buy it will beat your "free" 305, every time; both in absolute power output, and in cost. Period. And the RPM issue with a 327 isn't as great as one might "think" if one had no experience with these things, as long as everything else about the motors is equal. If you just want to dump the clutch on a high-RPM screamer, you can do that just as well with a 350, and break just as many driveline parts in the process, and go faster in case it holds together.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

no one said that isn't true. But he's looking to do something original. Even the 383 has lost its originality along with the 327.

I don't think that anyone said that a 334 will make more power than the 350, we just said that it'll be different. I also believe that it'll torque up quicker especially if you put on a set of better heads.

Your also wrong that the big motor will always win, if I put the 355 in a 4500 lb car and then drop a 334 into a 2300 lb car, which do you think will win.

Unfortunatly you aren't reading his question but are simply stating what you want to say. The idea is to answer the question!!! Ignorance is bliss my friend, I wish I were in your world...

I'm not trying to rip on you, but I hate it when everyone throws a 350 at anyones question that involves either stroking, destroking, or just buying a new block...

This question isn't about which is better, but what he can do with the 305 block. If you're stingy like me, "throwing it out" isn't a good enough answer. I agree that a 350 or 355 is better, I've got one in my car. But now that I've got a spare block, I want to do something with it. unfortunatly just boring it out and rebuilding it isn't going to do it on the 305, it needs more.

Next time check the question.

Lata,
Mike

[This message has been edited by burntblues (edited December 10, 2001).]

 

There are always arguements for the 305, which i understand. But the thing is, at least in my area, people will sell you a 300HP long block 350 for about $700. A guy I know on here is getting a complete 400HP engine for about a grand, freshly built. I just couldn't sink the money into a 305 knowing i could have had that for not much more.


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88 Camaro (The mighty LO3 SC!)
305TBI/700R4/2.73/125,XXX miles
10" Open Element and Flowmaster 80 seires
Bosch Platinum plugs
Double silicone Accel wires


Next up: headers and gears

 

Spending machine shop money on a 305 is silly. I can say that because my sig tells you I have spent other money on a 305. I don't like spending money that doesn't produce results.

For what it would cost you to stroke a 305, you could get a new factory 350 short block that will make more power than the 334 ever could. If you want "different", spend your money on a "different" paint job. The engine is supposed to put the "auto" into "automobile", not be "different".

Those of you who think RB is "bashing" the 305 because he doesn't have a 305 haven't spent enough time reading his posts.

BTW, while researching and collecting the parts to do the mods in my sig, I seriously considered the 334 stroker. When the machinist told me he'd sell me a roller 350 core and stroke it to 383, for the same money it would cost me to get the 334 stroker kit and machine MY 305 block, those plans were quickly dropped. Available funds kept me from taking the machinist up on his offer.

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82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R4, 2300 stall TC. Ported World 305 heads, Crane PowerMax 2050 cam. ZZ3/4 intake, oil pump, pan & baffle. Accel HEI SuperCoil & module. Hooker 2055 headers, 3" Catco cat & 3" catback w/dual-opposite Flowmaster 80. 2.93 limited slip. Spohn SFCs waiting to be installed. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily year-round driver. Best ET, speed TBD...
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. '66 396, 9.7:1 forged TRWs, Weiand Action+, Holley 750VS w/4150 conversion, GK 270 cam, Magnum rockers, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" Hedders & 3" Warlocks, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, MegaShifter, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Idles smooth @ 700 RPM in D. Best 15.02/95.06 @ 5800' Bandimere (corrected 13.93/102.4 @ sea level).

 

Thanks Kid for saying that. RB is speaking from experience and he does have a 305 in his car. Not because he wants one, but because he has to for the Smog *****. I have been following RB's post for a few years now. I can say one thing, if I have ANY question regarding an SBC he's the first person I will chat with to get his views. That is how much I respect his opinion.

 

I believe I have heard RB say he could have gone 350, if he knew then what he knows now.

My local "*****" put the VIN into the computer (actually scan the barcode on the DMV renewal card), look for the equipment the machine says it should have (EGR, cat, charcoal canister, filler restrictor), check "pass" for each of them, and drive onto the dyno. The fact that the VIN says "V6" and the engine is quite clearly a V8 doesn't seem to phase them. I even have the '86 LG4 stickers under the hood.

Stroking a 305 is still silly.

 

ok,...if more displacments is so great then how come you are not recammending gething a BB or a 400 SB....they are out there and cheap too....why build a 350 when you can build a 400?

All I know is i am going to eaither stroke the 305 or destroke it. 334 or 292....i dunno yet...that is a while off but i think i going to stroke it.....I can make a all out drag car for the track and use a 502......the 334 will get me lots and lots or torque....be cheaper becuae I have a brand new 305 in there and it is different.....maybe I will stroke it and super it huh....now there is a *****(notice i did not say mustang...we need to cooperate)/import obliterator(spelling)....I will be up and gone before they reach 2000 rpms in 1st.

[This message has been edited by camaro6spd (edited December 11, 2001).]

 

I haven't lived in the region of our province that requires emission testing for a couple of years now. In British Columbia, only the Lower Mainland around Vancouver must do IM240. They brought it in 1991, the year I bought my car.

While I was living at the Westcoast and had to go through emissions, every year they made it stricter and stricter. In 1991, I initially had to blow the same numbers that a few guys I know in CA with similar cars had to blow. 240 ppm HC, 1.0-1.2% CO and 1,500 NOx. Idle and drive, one was slightly different but I can't remember which.

At my last test, I had to blow a 85 HC, .50-.60% CO and I can't remember the NOx but it was definitely less than 1,000. I think they also test for functioning EGR, etc., which they didn't in the past. As I said, every year they are making it tougher and tougher; regardless of your car's emission rating at the time it was built. Right now late 70s and early 80s cars with carbs are having a heck of a time passing. Basically, they want to get them off the road and only "specialty" cars will be allowed provided they have a "collector's" plate.

I am glad I am not subject to testing anymore. I currently picked up a "winter car" that is very good shape abd only has 40,000 original miles. I picked this one up at the Westcoast because it couldn't pass emissions anymore.

But I think you can still do anything you want to your motor (no EO or CARB numbers needed), just blow the number. Also, we have a "provisional pass" where you have a certain dollar value of work done to your car by an "approved" mechanic and if you still can' t pass, they give you a "provisional pass" and you try again next year.

The dollar value of the work varies depending on the year of the car, though the amount is increasing. 1991s are the last of the "dollar limited" amount of work needed to a modified engine. 1992s or newer must spend whatever it takes to fix it. Needless to say, 1991 is the magic year if you want to modify your engine.

[This message has been edited by Glenn91L98GTA (edited December 11, 2001).]

 

in my opinion doing something to be diffrent is just as bad as doing something to be like everyone else. Putting an engine from a geo in your rig would be "trick" and "custom", it would also be stupid and useless. Diffrent does necessarily equal smart or beneficial. Do something that would give you the results your looking for. If you like hearing "Wow thats cool/diffrent" more then you like power and winning races, then do it to it.

 

from my limited experence(i've only done two engines compared to some of the other guys around here)the cost would be prohibitive in making a stroker 305,but yes it could be done.just a thought here but wouldn't that thing be a b.i.t.c.h to try to balance?1st you are using an externally balanced crank,2nd with so much stroke and very little bore i would think it might need a fairly heavy piston to balance whch means you now have to account for more rotational mass and a heavier reciprocating assembly which means it wll rev slower and not as high(yeah i know 305's aren't made to rev)3rd, with such a small bore cylinder head selection is a problem.you may be able go with 2.00/1.55's if the lift doesn't exceed .450 or so. even then you are gonna have to spend some cash to get better flowing heads or have the originals ported.i believe the ideas here are sound(build for tourqe the hp will follow suit).what's with trying to be different if you still lose the race?the only people that will care you have a 334 is you and your machinist,and by chance if you lose to a modded 305(or G.O.D FORBID A RUSTANG 302)your machinist wouldn't car either as long as you paid him
what i'm saying is you can tell anyone you have a 335,348,366 whatever just bore the 305 .020 or.030 you now have a 308 or 310 respectively doing so will help in the cylinder head and cam selecton which ultimately is the major component in making power.what good is having that stroker engine if you can't feed it the proper amount of air?then it becomes a gigantic paper weight for your desk when you wanna go faster(unless you SC then tack on anothher 3,000 for that)


just my .02 i dont mean to offend anyone. just trying to throw in some of the variables with this idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by PETE (edited December 11, 2001).]

 

Could you buy a stroker kit for a 305, use it in a 305 for a while, then put it in a 350? Assuming that it received no damage while in the 305.
I'm wondering this because it would be nice to have now, then put it in a 350 when the need for cubes arises.

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No guts, no glory.

 

The pistons may be a problem.

 

ok, sit back, get a cold one, cause i will give you the skinny on the 335 powerhouse stroker, we(myself, my friend scott, and another buddy steve just finished one 3 weeks ago)in a 92 Z28 auto. first of all, i can not believe the power that little damn thing has, it surprised the hell out of everyone. the kit has custom 400 crank, stock rods, and keith black silvolite pistons(not normal hypernutetic(sp)) first off be prepared to do some serious block clearancing and on the rods, shoving that 400 stroke in there is kinda tight. besides that everything was normal. the thing has more tourqe than you can shake a stick at, forget about hooking it in 1st, and good luck hanging second gear. this is what the engine has in it.
335 powerhouse stroker, 10.5 comp, tourqer S/R 305 heads, comp cam 1.5 roller tip rockers, SLP cam(cant remember the adv, but the @.050 is 214/224)thats all i remember, edelbrock lower(i really like that intake becuase it had the new and old bolt pattern for the intake, thats sweet as hell), SLP runners, ported stock upper, TPIS airfoil, ACCEL module and coil and wires and shorty plugs, edelbrock headers, catco 3inch hiflo cat, 3inch edelbrock cat back with RPM muffler(i was really impressed with that way is sounded)ahh lets see, a fastchip, i think by ed wright? is he the guy that used to work for SLP, i cant remember, AFPR set at 45 PSI, ACCEL 24lbs/hr injectors, 2200 stall, transgo shift kit, vette servo, stock rear gears, 3.73's are next. if theres anything i left out, just ask. i know the guy spent some $$$ on this job, but the thing does run really good, and as far as putting all that stuff on a 350 and running faster, that maybe true, but a 350 doesnt have the stroke that the 400 does, thats obvioiusly why people make 383's. my friend steve liked it so much, he is going to put on in his S-10 pick up. i thought in the beginning how stupid it was to spend the money on a little 335, well i have to say i am surprised. there are no times yet because all the tracks around here are closed. but it will be there in the spring. the guy that owns the car is extremely happy, and i am glad for that, he did spend some bucks. the guy said, do you think your firebird will run with it? i smiled and said yeah, it should keep up just fine. any other Q's anyone has, feel free to ask or email me.
lil jay

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Wide Open Till You See *** ...Then Brake

89 T/A Clone
406 in progress
TH700R4 3.42 Posi

 

What kind of $$$$ are u talkin
bout lil Jay??

 

A stroked 305 won't last that long. Bore/Stroke ratio is way outta whack!!!!

In another words, the piston has a long way to travel for how wide it is and it puts alot of extra friction on the cylinder walls.

I don't hear much about this in V8's but it is very important, and not only affects performance but also longevitiy!

 

LilJay, I did basically the same mods on my 305 and have the same reaction to the difference. Spent about $1000 less by not stroking.

My 5.0 GT buddy won't even listen to talk about a match race at Bandimere anymore.

My point: the results you saw were probably not from the stroking.

 

LilJay,

I'm sure that set up is a blast, no doubt. It's tough to say that it is because of the stroke kit though. I mean, there are a lot of guys running similar set ups on their 305's and having similar results.

Heck, I can hardly keep my car hooked up in 1st gear right now and I can make them chirp going into second. I'm not even close to having my car set up yet. I still need heads, carb and exhaust!

Point is a lot of people misunderstand the rap that the 305 is given and believe it can't make power because of whatever reason.....truth is it will very respectable power.

It would have been more interesting to see what those mods would do with a 305 and then adding a stroker kit to it. Then we've got some real numbers to compare.