Ok, you guys sucked me in and my junkyard turbo project is underway. Just a question about turbos to look for, I'm looking to find some t3's, but which ones have the internal wastegates? and which one's don't?

I've got the headers selected, injectors, bov's, and other misc. things. I'm going to pick up some 350 heads for my 305 to lower the compression down, but i'm wondering how low should i go? I was thinking about 8 or so, so i'm thinking a 64cc chamber would do that if i'm not mistaken, but not too sure on that. Any help there?

THanks for getting me hooked guys!

Pj

 

How much compression you should run depends on how much boost you plan to run. If you want to run a lot of boost then 8:1 would probably be good. If you're just going to run between 5-10lbs of boost then 9:1 with an efficient turbo and intercooler would. Remember, lowering the compression causes you to loose nonboosted response and gas mileage.

 

Ok thanks, well right now the 305 has a compression of 9.3/1, if i went with a pair of 350 heads with 64cc, would that drop it to about 8.3 or 8 or so? Just curious is all, I'm trying to get low, and keep it around 8.

PJ

 

PJ - Have you picked up the books by Corky Bell and Hugh MacInnes? That will help a ton in designing your tubo system correctly. It explains turbo sizing, and nearly everything you need to consider. WRT the turbos - find the largest you can get. It'll be tough to go too big, since most cars from the factory came with very small turbos.

 

Yep, sure did get em. I've got one of the turbos, from the manual cougars, am looking for another sometime this week. But i'm still curious as to how far a pair of 64cc or 70-74cc heads would lower my compression. I plan on going to about 10lbs of boost, on about 8 to 1 compression with intercooler(which i still have to go get dangit, haven't got around to it yet).

But yeah i got the books, and decided on the .60/.63 turbos, very very informative books by the way.

PJ

 

sorry I dont have any definate info on witch t3's have internal wastegates, but every t3 i've seen has them (there might be exceptions) ... the ones that don't are the t3/t4 hybrid turbos (like off a buick t-type). good luck with the project!!

 

With that low of compression and an intercooler you can probably run more than 10lbs of boost. GN's usually run between 15-18 on pump gas with 8:1 comp. and an intercooler.
I was going to type an equation for the compression, but look on page 156 in Maximum Boost. That should help you figure out the compression ratio.

 

THank ya for the help guys, I'm really trying to get this underway. I have that part of the book highlighted, heh, for the compression ratios and all that, I'll have to go back again and see what I can do.

I've been looking more indepth at the other junkyard turbo projects, and most guys are using 10 psi on their stock motors with a little bit higher compression then i plan on running, so I don't think i should have too big of a problem unless i have a weak point somewhere in my motor that i don't know about, but then it's just time for a rebuild, or 350, but i'm going to get this done first. That's about it for now, I'll be taking pictures soon of how everything's going, as soon as i get the headers made, and my a/c taken out.

PJ

 

Ok I only could get one of the exhaust housing bolts out without breaking it! ::Growls:: oh well, no need to hurry anyhow, still gotta get the other turbo. Heh, the lady at the junkyard sold it to me for $40 along with everything else attached that i took with it. Good deal, spins freely, no chipped blades, very very minimal side to side play, and no for and aft play at all.

Does anyone know where I can get the relocation kit for my alternator to drop it down? i've been looking online, and if i could find this cheap, it would make mounting these turbos a hella lot easier.

pj

 

Hey PJ, keep us updated on how the project goes! I've been very interested in this type of project since i first read about JY turbos about a year back

Thanks,
Matt

 

Sure will, just picked up my large chamber heads yesterday. As soon as a i get my friend with the digi camera i'll start snapping and posting. A question for all you turbo people out there, will the wastegate off of a .48 exhaust housing fit my .63 housing? Cause if it will, that sure will solve a lot of my "welding to cast iron can't be done" problems. Heh.

PJ

 

Wow, I've got a bunch of questions and comments:

- what is the equation that everyone is quoting on p156 (don’t own the book)?
- you were asking about exhaust housings with an integral wastegate for a t-3. Most of them have them actually, but the 2 most useful are the ford housings that have the 90* elbow and the saab housings that have an outlet going straight back. You could build/buy a t3/t4 hybrid with one also.
- you can’t you weld cast iron to what? What cast iron? What kind of welder are you using? Quick answer, all you need is a higher grade filler rod. I’ve gotten away with plain mild steel rod, but if you really want to play it safe use stainless (309 is supposedly best, but I haven't been able to find any locally so I've used 308) in a mig or tig or inconnel with a stick welder. Don’t use as much heat as you would with a comparable mild steel piece and if at all in doubt, preheat the cast piece first to prevent cracking (BTW, I’ve seen people cut, rotate and reweld the Ford T3 turbine elbows if that’s what you’re getting at, I’m cutting them and probably welding some 3” to them if I can fit it)

 

Oh, what heads did you go with and where did you get them (I'm looking for some 76cc heads, even some old smog heads)?

 

No no no, I'm looking for the particular wastegate that came off of the saab and volvo t3's that has no downpipe beginning. Because the beginning of the downpipe on the ford turbo in essence points left when mounted in my car, and that's no good to me. Yeah, i'm happy, I checked the numbers on my head and they are the 76cc chamber heads, which should drop me to about 7.6/1 or so if i did my math right. I'll have to get back to you on the equation, my friend borrowed the book since i've done and read it way too many times by now.

The heads came off a 327 motor? 1970 nova i think.

pj

 

The equation just figures up the change in compression. I don't have my book with me otherwise I'd type it in.
Why don't you just cut the elbow off? Cut the elbow right after it starts and weld pipe to that.

 

Finally! Back in business, after a long, slow, BROKE few months i'm back into action after my recent car just up and died and I had to buy a new one. The turbo project is underway, headers should be made within a week or so and i'll have pics to post. So far i've done..

Removed smog pump
Removed AC pump, condensor
Removed manifolds, retro fitted new headers just to see if they would clear the brake system
Installed 42 pound injectors
Removed Fans from behind radiator to clear space for downpipes.
In process of looking for two fans to go in front of radiator for cheap, don't know if cheap is going to happen though.
Cleaned up turbos somewhat, swapped out old ford wastegates with new swing valve assemblies(no direction of downpipe)

Well that's it for now, all this was done in the last two days over the labor day weekend.

I must say, after removing all these things the engine bay looks much cleaner!

Pics to be up soon.

PJ

 

I'm curious to see how this goes on the thirdgens...I've done it on a 5.0 stang, and just recently picked up a T/A for next to nothing.

I have to T3's w/ .48 housing (smaller) sitting around, and am thinking of doing this...

Any progress? Are you going F.I. or Carb'd?

I went EFI on my mustang, but I think I'd do carb on the F-bod. The one I bought is an 85, so it is already carb'd anyways...

Shawn

PS, here's the car I am getting tomorrow, I'm paying $100 for it...not bad! All it needs is a carb and a battery...

 

Hum, can't argue with just about any car for $100, but don't count on it being a TA... What year is it supposed to be? The reason that I ask is that it's got a what look like the '85 and up firebird seats, an '84 or older firbird front end, lower body work from a later TA, firbird fender (on this side), and if it's '85 or later that's the firebird wing... I can keep going...

Have fun with the car

 

Well, according to the VIN# it's a trans am. Or at least that's what the decoder says. The front end is obviously off of an older car...

The ground effects are wrong for that year? What does an 85 trans am look like?

Here's the print out from the vin decoder...

Made in: United States
Manufacturer: General Motors
Make: Pontiac
Carline Code: F-Body
Carline Series: Trans Am
Body Type: 2 door coupe
Engine Code: 305 ci V8 LG4 (1985-1986)
9 is the CHECK DIGIT.
Model Year: 1985
Assembly Plant: Van Nuys
Production Sequence: 607013

Shawn

 

running more that the 5-10 psi with those junkyard T3's might be pretty hard so you may want to keep the 305 heads. when you switch to the 350 heads it can 1) hurt quench, 2) the chamber can hang over the cylinder (so use a 305 gasket lined up with the bolt holes and look if the chamber's bigger than the gasket bore). to make sure you are not stacking up problems that invite detonation, in your effort to reduce it.

 

i would leave the engine alone.if your going to use junkyard turbos u might as well leave the compression alone.if not id actually rasie it to 10-1 that way u wont have to run so much boost, plus dont expect ud be able to run big boost number with mismatched junkyard turbos.
dave

 

that's cool... if that's the case then you've got the wrong front end, fender (do you have a vent on the driver's fender?), hatch/wing, wheels and possibly seats (it's hard to tell). The hood should have 4 vents but no 'turbo dome.'

I don't know that I'd be all that stressed about it, but I would probably try get a front end and front ground effects to match the rest. Nice toy for $100

 

350 heads will not hurt quench. The quench height will not change (assuming that you use the same thickness gasket). Going with 'normal' more recent 64cc heads will lower compression about .8 a point (you should end up in the mid to high 8:1 range). What would be cool is if you got some vortec heads and a vortec victor jr (if you intend to stay carbed and blow through). The vortec's will flow better then just about anything that you can get for that price, which will show up as having the same power at a lower boost so that the car won't be as detonation sensitive.

Second, if they're the .48ar exhaust, 60 trim T3's, you'll have enough turbo there to feed about 575-625 hp. with the 305 heads you could expect that at about 15, maybe 17psi boost or so. With the vortec heads you could make that power with as low as about 7psi. Of course, this all depends on everything else flowing enough so as to not add a reastriction (or you'll need see more boost with the same ammount of air flow). BTW, the 60/.48 T3's are probably one of the better choices for a 305. Should spool fairly fast and pump plenty of air.

 

SO what your saying is that this can NEVER happen?

 

Yes it can happen, but not on any of the heads that would be anywhere near appropriate to use on that engine (well, if he's got really bad core shift it could happen on the completelly stock 305 with stock heads). With 1.94/1.50" valves the 305 and the 350 heads that I've seen actually have the similar chamber width which is somewhat smaller then the bore of a 305.. (I was looking for something else and had an opertunity to measure probably about half a dozen heads with a dial caliper) .

 

I decided to keep the 305 heads, will post some pics in a couple hours.

pj

 

yeah I understand, I just was suggesting a basic assembly check using a stock 305 gasket to check combustion chamber index (overhang).

 

hm.... go to this yahoo group if you can see, there's some pics of my setup on there, i'm have trouble posting pics. ::grins::

 

Don't mind the rust...
more at

My turbo project

 

I've got three saab intercoolers (don't ask) and am planning on using two of them, since the idea of running piping for one large IC just does not interest me at all. My question is, exactly HOW important is it that the IC's have a direct placement to air flowing through them? I plan on placing them kind of in the same spot that the Eclipse does, except I don't have front air scoops. I'm taking out the battery tray, and the tray on the pass. side where the charcoal canister used to be, and the IC's are going to sit in there in front of the wheel in the bumpers. Just curious if anyone else has used the saab IC's, and where they placed them.

PJ

 

How well an intercooler works is directly related to the airflow across the core. You will get some cooling with it just sitting out in still air, but airflow across it will make the cooling substantially better.

 

check the sticky post for the twin procharger intercooler kit to see how they are placed there.

 

Ok, i've taken both turbos apart to spin the housings in the right direction along with spinning the center section so the oil drains downward. I have a question.

There is an oring type gasket between the center section, and the aluminum housing, do I need to get another one to put it back together? I've read elsewhere that people just clean it off, and put it back together, but i'm not so sure, and on top of that, even if i did need it, i wouldn't know where to get just it. Thanks guys.

BTW, more pics on tuesday, of completed headers.

pj