Ok I just got my Baer brake kit and I think I would like to replace the factory stamped a arms while I am at it. I don't think I need to replace the K member, so I need a set of a arms that bolt into the factory K member. Also the arms must retain the factory suspension setup, so it has to have the spring perch as well as the mounting for the sway bar.

So anybody have what I'm talking about? My car is ultimatly being setup for road racing but will be driven on the streets as well, so I need a set that was designed for this.

Thanks

 

Should find what you need at the following site:

http://www.thunderracing.com/

JamesC

 

Thanks for the link.

So is anybody currently using these that can give me some real world experience on how they perform? What would be better for a car that will be used for street and road racing...mild steel or chrome moly?

 

depends on what company you go through....

can't give you any real world advice, however i have asked around alot and i ended up going with the pa racing chromoly setup. they use a heavy guage chromoly which is as heavy as most mild steel applications but it's better setup for the street.

i went with coilovers because i wanted the room for the two power adders and headers. it's tight in there. the main reason i didn't stick with the stock spring perch setup as well is because you defeat the overall purpose of the a-arms. unless your going for looks or have to have a certain setup for a class.

i don't think there are enough people on this site with the experience to recommend, just take their opinions as what they are and make your best judgement.

 

Thanks for your reply, but something you said I didn't quite understand, and if you could explain that in a little more detail to me I would appreciate that. Here is your quote:

"the main reason i didn't stick with the stock spring perch setup as well is because you defeat the overall purpose of the a-arms. unless your going for looks or have to have a certain setup for a class. "

Ultimatly for me I want to go with the roadtech front end setup but he doesn't make it yet that uses the factory suspension setup which I would prefer to use. So I figured until he gets that new design going I could just buy the PA racing a-arms that uses the factory setup.

My car is going to be a weekend warrior on the street and I would like to start competing with it on road courses, so thats the intent with my car. Get the best stuff you possibly can. It will be driven hard, but has to be able to handle the imperfections of the wonderful streets we have here in NJ.

Thanks

 

i don't understand your purpose......

your waiting for roadtech yet pa will do the job you say? what is it about roadtech that you prefer?

you want to go with spring perches and not coil overs? why?

only reason some stay with spring perches is because certain classes require such.

why go tubular with spring perches? to save weight? your not saving enough to justify the cost of removing your stamped steel unless your competing for money where every little bit counts. if that was the case you wouldn't need help.

you also have a few choices. pa uses a thicker grade chromoly then the others so you can have a stronger version that most mild steel and still lighter than some shops chromoly versions.

i'm not an expert, just giving you my point of view. i just don't see why you really want to go this route since it doesn't sound like you autocross much and you don't seem to need the extra header clearance.

 

My purpose is to build my car for ultimate handling. I could care less about drag racing. So what I want is a car that will be able to take on road courses while also be able to carve up some corners on the street.

Our cars were not designed for coil overs and I don't think there is enough support up top to handle very aggressive driving, so that is why I want to stay with the factory suspension setup. Also if you look at the roadtech k-member vs. the PA racing k-member the difference is huge. The roadtech k-member is much stronger than what PA racing has to offer with theres, therefore leading me to believe it would hold up much better to street driving as well as racing on a road course. So since I don't think coil overs on our cars are a good idea for what I want to do that leaves roadtech out for now since his stuff is only if your going to convert to coil overs. So I don't like the PA racing k-member, but there a-arms look just as beefy as the roadtech a-arms, which is why I would consider just getting them for now.

I would go with tubular because its stronger than the factory stamped piece, it comes with poly bushings and a better ball joint. Those reasons alone are worth the price and if I save a few pounds in the process thats cool too.

You see I'm at the point with my car where I have almost every single aftermarket part you can buy so I figured the a-arms are the next logical thing to get.

 

please don't take this the wrong way, but i don't think you understand anything that your looking into.

if your basing a k member off of what a picture looks like more so than anything your in trouble.

just because something is tubular doesn't make it lighter or any stronger....it depends on the material, the type of weld, and the overall design.

good luck.

 

Well thats why I'm here, if I knew everything there was to know I wouldn't need to put up posts like this.

These parts I am talking about aren't common upgrades for many people on this board so I was trying to get some real world input from people who use these parts.

You mentioned using coil overs, can you explain why you think this is a better way to go than keeping the factory suspension setup? What is your purpose with your car? Mine you can see is for all out handling, so maybe we are trying to accomplish two different goals.

I still don't understand why you are saying spring perches are inferior to the coil over setup on our cars. I have also read many posts on the camaroz28.com board about the PA racing k-member and most people feel that it isn't built to handle the rigors of everyday driving on the street as well as for road racing. It is built to shave weight off the front and I think the intended purpose for that k-member is drag racing.

Ok well you see what my intensions with my car are, I would be greatful if you could tell me what you think I should get for the front end and why?

Thanks

 

I'm using PA Racing's K member and A arms, both mild steel with spring perches. It holds up just fine to the rigors of daily driving on the not so perfect Georgia roads. I understand your concerns with durability but IMO if it stands up to daily driving, you'll be fine at the road course. Regular street driving is unpredictable and has more road hazards that has way more potential to do more damage to your car than what a road course has to offer. Everybody else gets tubular LCAs, torque arms, and panhard bars but you never hear anyone breaking one from driving around town, I don't see where having tubular a arms are different. The Mustang guys have been doing the tubular k member and A arms for years.

I also feel the weight savings between using the stock spring setup and coilovers is minimal. If you get a chance, pick up a stock A arm and a PA Racing A arm...that's where all your weight savings will be. The difference is amazing. IIRC, the shipping weight is 18 lbs for both A arms! I chose to go with the stock spring perches because coil overs are not worth it to me for a daily driver. But I can still use coil overs if I wanted to, and then go back to stock if I didn't like it.

Just remember, everything is a compromise. If you're a really hardcore road racer then you might as well get the A arms with rod end bearings instead of the bushings. Just keep in mind it'll be noisy on the street and will wear out much faster.

 

I have a little bit of input here. First, the f-body will stand up to a coil-over set up just fine. The front structure of the car is quite strong indeed and if done right tha car will respond awesome. The rub, however, is this. In order to gain the FULL advantage of coilovers you also need to do some other stiffening of the chassis (subframe connectors at absolute minimum) which includes a larger investment. My brother has the Morrison front coil-over/tubular setup in his IROC, along with SFC's, rollbar, STB, etc. and says that you can feel every little imperfection in the road surface, but the car handles like it's on rails. Simply put, not much fun as a daily driver, but a damn fine corner carver on the street or track. Also, the coil-over setup needs a much stiffer spring than stock since it will collapse onto itself and become a sleeve much quicker than the stock spring (the strut is only so long, and in order to run a good large 17" tire, the spring needs to be mounted up pretty high for tire clearance). I'll attach some pics later to illustrate that point.
All of that said, I have decided to go with the PA chrome moly/spring perch arms. They are strong as hell, and they look great. They also don't deflect like the stamped arms under extreme load, and that is the reason to go with tubular arms. The arms with perches also have that added x-member built into them (the perch welds between the tubes that form the "A") effect to keep them from deforming under load, and I can always convert to a coil-over later if I want. If you go the other way, and don't like it, you need to buy new arms again.
that is my 2 cents worth, but ultimately you have to make the choice based on which is right for you.

 

thanks for the input from everybody so far. Pictures would also be great.

Like I was saying earlier, I have almost every aftermarket part you can buy for these cars, and I really only have the front end left to deal with besides springs and struts. A guy I know just sent me some pictures of the PA racing chrome molly a-arms with the spring perches and they look really nice. I am also going to hopefully purchase a set of the Hunter Motorsports upper strut mounts to compliment the a-arms. I have heard the Morrison kit is really meant for drag racing, so thats why I am asking all these questions. I just want to make sure I get something thats going to hold up to crappy NJ streets as well as take on a road course every now and then as well. So far the PA racing chrome moly arms with factory spring perches seem like the way to go.

What I would really like to know is what makes one type of suspension setup better than the other. I am talking about the factory setup vs. coil overs? Also when I say better I am refering to a road racing type driving.

Oh one last thing, do the PA racing arms have provisions to mount up the factory sway bars?

Thanks

 

Yes.

 

yes, they do have that option........but, it is an option you have to ask for it.

one of the nice things about pa racing chromoly is they use a heavier guage than most of the competition. this allows for it to be structurally stronger than most mild steel while still having almost the same weight reduction as the lower grade common chromoly.

as far as coil-overs, i need them like i said for better header and clearance among other things as well as all around room. while my car is a street car it sees only 5,000 miles a year so i want it to hold up but i don't need the extra mindset that a separate coil/strut design gives.

i think personally it's all about the money, if you can afford it and could benefit from the extra room then go for it. otherwise stick with the spring perches.

if i didn't need the room i would just leave the springs although it adds more weight........not that i truly care about that since i just want a good street car though.

 

Sorry I missed that on the first go-round. My Bad. Here ae some pics of my brothers car. According to Morrison, their arms were actually developed for street-rod use and adapted to work in other cars, and they say that they are great for drag racing, but are equally as good for "any other type of competition and the street". I'm not looking to split hairs, but in the first two pics, you can see that any wider tire would be a problem with the coil-over (not that you should need more than the pictured 275-40zr17).

Like Kandied said, it is all about the money, and unless you need them for an issue like his (clearance), you'll probably never notice a difference between the two, other than in your wallet.

 

#2

 

Thanks for all the replys. I have decided for my application I don't need coil overs and I'm just going to stick with the factory suspension setup. So my only option right now seems to be the PA racing tubular a-arms, or just work over the stock a-arm. I may hold out a little while to see if roadtech decides to produce his a-arms using the factory setup.

 

pa racing also offers a road race version with more bracing.....they pretty much build for the uses.

good luck with your setup.

 

Question for GTA Speed.

I just removed my top strut mounts from the engine bay of my car (painting engine bay).

I see that three small bolts, about 1/4" in diameter, hold the strut mount in place on top of the wheel well in the engine bay.

These three bolts are all held in alignment on the bottom by a "U" shaped piece of stamped steel. It is visable in the first picture you posted (looking up towards the top of the coil over).

When you converted to coil overs, are these three bolts (per side) the only thing that keeps the coil over from shooting up through the mount and into the engine bay?

I've never how coild overs attach up to, so don't know. Any info is appreciated.

Thanks,
S-D

 

Kandied91z...........you tryed hard!LOL!

Some people go shopping and buy the stuff they saw on tv!

Some listen to rumours and ad there stuff to it!

Some read, try and build and after 8 years of use know better.....

The only post i read about "bad" PA stuff was from a 4th gen owner.......read that post carefully ! I could not stop smiling after reading it!

As for other Topics in here, i can let the feeling go that some people are helping a company to get bigger????????

Art Mo is the Veteran !
They stopped there nice work for my point view and let others jump on there market!
The pic is a nice one...nice BRAKE there!

Some Q´s:

1. Why would i change anything on my car if i dont trust the supplier or myself??

2. Why would i put 1le brakes on a LG4 Fbody with less power than a Corrado V6?? US Law 55MILES...hahahaha!

3. Lower a-arms without the cmoly/mild steel k-member????
OUCH!



In the pic art mo, fdr spring,willwood drag brake!
the Us customs office informed us the our sea container is
finally on the way to germany!

That means new14"Alcon Brakes and new susp set up!
Pics comming up!

 

What is keeping that coil-over from pushing through the top of the strut mount? Do you have a pic of the top of the top strut mount to show how it is mounted?

Any info appreciated!

Thanks,
Wil

 

what did you just say..........?

what do you mean i "tried"?

sure art morison makes a great product, only reason i was even talking about pa is because they use a thicker guage chromoly. over time the standard for chromoly tends to get brittle and will cause problems.

i guess i'm just out of the loop, i have no idea what you said based on how you worded everything.

 

Kandied91z, we liked the comments you made!
You tryed to explain to david that there are more things to check than pics!


swerve-driver glad you asked that!!!!

the shock is held by a modded strut tower mount!
the spring is sittin in a round pocket it´s a bracket that is part of the art mo kit!

in old kits the round collar had to be welded to the stock strut tower !
Newer kits had the bracket supplied!
This bracket gives more support and you dont have to weld!
Its not the best design, but this is america ....GO MAKE YOU OWN STUFF!We took the data of the stock plate and will mod that sooner or later!

Some people thought the spring is held by the thin wheelhouse not so!

As we postet in other threads before, our view of race or chassie tuning is to go all steps!
The car in the pic
no powerstrg
alu heads ...waterpump..bla..bla..blaa!
no useless stuff: air con.....so on! Car weight is 1150KG without
driver!
So with all market available suspension stuff and our own mods, we have not seen any problems with the coil overs!!!!!!!!!

Its time coil over and k-member owners step up and clear those
mystery stories........!!!!!!!!!

We do see a problem with some caddy like cruisers like the heavy GTA!
Or people that put 3tonns of electronics on there cars........!

But why would i take a car with 1800 KG and thing i can turn it into a solo top racer???????????????????????????????



As we wonder that all those topics are still open and unspoken we´ll ad the pics to our 14" brake story!

In the pic the old style Art Mo spring collar!

Shatty pic put we´ll post better stuff!scanner gave up!digi did the best it could!

 

i see....

could you give your personal ideas as to what is good or bad for the common street vehilce that sees ocasional strip/track use.

alot of people seem to believe that these types of setups hinder performance and that only 1/4 mile racers should even consider such ideas.

i'd like to hear your opinions on the matter.

 

Sorry I didn't get back to you on how the coil is held in. I really can't remember, but I think there is an additional bracket (spring pocket) in there. I can't remember, and my camera is broke, and that is my brother's car. I'll try to get down to his house this week, but it's supposed to snow again on Thurs and I don't know if I can get down there before then.
As for what German said, I agree that a/c, p/s etc is useless extra weight on a race car, but most of us drive our cars in the summer on the street and like a little comfort with our fun. I don't see anything wrong with keeping all of the creature comforts and still tring to make a car fun to drive. Also, ther is this thing called the Power Tour over here, and if you have ever riden cross-country (on state maintained highways) in August in a "race car" you know how uncomfortable that can be. Most of us consider our cars "daily drivers & weekend warriors". All I know is that when I drive into Vegas for the 4th of July, and it's 120 degrees outside, I'll be chillin in my air conditoned GTA with my tunes crankin'.

 

German what the heck are you talking about? I am asking about parts most people don't replace, so I was just asking for opinions from people who use these parts. You are way off base, and for your information I spoke with Karl Hunter, who I'm sure has way more knowledge than you about what parts I should go with for my setup. He said that coil overs should NOT be used on our cars for road racing purposes, and I should stick with the factory type setup. And what do you expect me to do go out and buy all the different parts and try them all out to see what the best ones for my application are? All I have at this point to go by is pictures. Hence thats the reason I asked some questions.

Thanks to everybody else for your replys

 

GTA-SPD.....you are right with the point of daily driving!
Pro Tour is well known all over the world!

The mistake we think people are making is to see those things and adapt those parts to a daily driver!
Not only will those people complain for road noise , also the effect they dreamed of want show up!
Ad 275/40!17 to ya daily fbody and with only 245 tires and 1100gk + fully pervert modded suspension I´ll drive circles aound you!


There were several reports way back in CHP were they took a vette and added a light hood removed some undercarpeting and called it skinner!
The car handled much better and that is the way for most of the people on this board!

After posting we sat down last nite and talked with some buddies about the topic and even in our club we do have differend streams!
Being able to choose cars:SUV,City Bi..tch Golf 4, 88 Notch and the "racer" its sometimes hard to accept that some people use
there fbody as a : shopping car,racer,wedding limo and so on!

So to be honest this is no battle or fight what to get , it´s just what purpose you are looking for when you mod the car!


There is no touring car in pro bizz without coil overs!
The statement that this is for drag racing is WRONG!

 

Karl Hunter is known!
But you are a bit far away to know us!
On our 3 yearly trips we meet lots of suspension pros and yes some are longer in the Fbody bizz........!
Read your own posts and then asked yourself:
Why would i post and answer my own Q´s!


Way of base ???
Well the coilover is in its eights year of use! Holla when you have added one part of the many you talked about!

 

Well let me explain this to you then since you must know. I made this post before I talked to Karl, so I didn't know what would be the best setup for road racing. You may have experience but you sure don't seem to understand the purpose of a message board, which is to get opinions and facts from other people.

Also who cares how long the coil over setup has been around. Please show me one example of a thirdgen car that races in competition using the coil over design. Karl happens to feel like I stated above that I don't think the upper strut tower was designed to take the stress that the coil over puts on it. Nobody said that they can't be used in other situations but you clearly just miss the point. Art morrions kit was designed for drag racing, and so is the PA racing k-member hence the reason they made another one with extra bracing for use with road racing. He also mentioned tires sizes and how you can fit a much larger tire under a car with the factory suspension setup which is what you need for road racing. I don't doubt you know your stuff but you sure don't seem to understand what these message boards are for.