This came directly from Dynomax's website. They have been in the business longer than most so I tend to believe what they say. If so, a single 3in pipe will flow enough for cars pushing just over 500hp with a crossflow muffler. I will call them tomorrow to get some clarification on this.

 

ttt

 

Hey.... How about posting a link to that instead of a picture.

And that formula looks like one that David Vizard made. I know he does a lot of work with Walker which is the parent company for Dynomax. AAMOF, he and Walker tried to get all muffler companies to rate their mufflers based of cfm like they do with carbs/TBs, but almost every one of them said "No".

I wonder why?

AJ

 

I just got off the phone with dynomax, and they said it is correct...so I wonder why everyone...including myself is running such large tube on higher HP engines?

 

here is the link
http://www.dynomax.com/mufflers.stm

 

OK...... I don't doubt that the 3" pipe will flow enough. After all, that's what I've also been trying to tell people with no luck. They're all fixated on "bigger is better".

Anyway...... It's a whole different ball game when talking about mufflers.

Where did you get the flow numbers for the crossflow? IIRC, Dynomax does not make a 3" inlet crossflow, right? The only one I know of, or have found on their website is #17739, which is 2 1/2" in and dual 2 1/2" out, and is also the one I have on my car now. Did I miss something? And obviously I missed the flow numbers.

I found the specs such as overall length and stuff like that, but no flow numbers. Perhaps you can show me where to find that stuff?

And Dynomax said that the crossflow will flow enough to support 500HP? That's BS. According to the formula THEY provide that muffler would need to flow 1100 CFM. That ain't gonna happen. I doubt they make an Ultra Flow that flows that much by itself. EDIT: I did find two or three that will flow that much.

And believe you me, I have 100% faith in Dynomax. I’ve used their stuff for years and have always been 100% happy especially since they’re priced good to. I just think that maybe you misunderstood them, or maybe they misunderstood your question. That’s all.

AJ

 

OK...... I think I figured it out

According to the PowerTech chart and the numbers on the specs of the crossflow muffler, it's only able to support 175 "Loss free HP" And it only flows 385 cfm. So if someone used TWO of them (and how in the heck would you do that?) then they could support 350HP.

That's a far cry from 500 HP.

AJ

 

Holy smoke...... I found one.

I never knew they made this. It's not 500 HP, but is says 427!!! That's "loss free" as they say. I'll bet you loose maybe 10 HP at the MOST by putting it behind a 500HP engine.

Thanks dude. I guess I should have looked a little further first huh?

AJ

 

check out the 17536 ultra flow welded. It does not have flow specs on thier site, but I called them about 6 mos ago on it and they said it flowed over 1100CFM. Sounds good to me...I am going to post a quote from another board that is worth reading.

 

read this

 

Dont waste your time on cross flow mufflers. If you don't care about performance but want the dual outlet then buy the crossflow. If you want the best flow, go with the single in/out design with a hidden tailpipe. You can get diameters up to 4 inches in the ultra flow. You can't beat a straight through design. If you ask me anyway you look at it the crossflow sucks.
I currently have the Dynomax Single In/Out 3" ultra flow Oval Welded Muffler. What a difference over the flowmaster crossflow.

 

OK...... evidently you didn't read ANYTHING that IROCFAST and I have written. The last crossflow I posted a pic of can flow 940 cfm!!!!!! That's enough to support 427 HP in a single exhaust setup!!!!! 854 HP in a dual setup (again..... not that you'd run two crossflows on a car. ).

So crossflow isn't any good? Perhaps you're trying to say that Blowmaster isn't any good?

Here's a flow chart that compares a 2.5" mufflers. Granted they're not crossflows, but it gives a fair comparison. Perhaps Dynomax should buy the TM from Flowmaster so the name fits the product. :sillylol:

AJ

 

What!?!?!?!?!

You mean you don't have to have a 150dB muffler to make 600HP????

You mean I don't have to sound like a 4 tooth ******* coming down the street to have HP????

Well that doesn't make any sense. My buddy has a fart can on his Hyundai that I can hear from 2 blocks away!!! He added like 200 HP by doing that, didn't he?



AJ

 

you do realize that you have been dooped by a truncated bar graph right? here is how it is supposed to look:

 

I should explain, it is a method companies use to make their products look better than they really are by cutting off the bottom of bar graphs. Notice how their bar graph doesnt really start at 0 cfm it starts at 200 cfm. How unfair to the OEM exhaust heh, this graph only shows 25 cfm of the OEM exhaust and makes the Dynomax exhaust look like it flows over 5 times as well when in reality it doesnt even flow twice as much.

 

Dude..... I'm fully aware of this method. I was born today...... BUT IT WAS 31 YRS AGO!!!!!! (Today's my B-Day)

Anyway, that's also why they post numbers.

I'm just giving Dynomax their props for designing a muffler that's 1) Quieter than a Flowmaster 2) Costs less than a Flowmaster 3) FLOWS BETTER than a Flowmaster.

Granted it is only 48 cfm more, but lets use a CFM/$ scenario.

The Super Turbo listed there (#17733) costs $31.99 @ Jeg's for 410 cfm. That's 12.82 cfm/$1.00

The Flowmaster 50 series with 2.5" in/out costs $89.99 That's 4.02 cfm/$1.00

Which one's the better buy?

AJ

 

Hey IROCFAST

I know the David Vizard article that you're referring to with the exhaust terminators, I saw it in a Dirt Track magazine, or something like that.

Have you seen it or any more along those lines in print anywhere? I have the David Vizard 'how to build horsepower' vols I and II, but I'd like to see more on his exhaust testing.

I really like his style, he has a lot of useful, practical knowledge.

 

The only book I've seen it addressed in is "How to Build Max Performance Chevy Small Blocks on a Budget".

And I can't say that I like his style.

I LOVE IT!!!!!!

He's a cheap *** just like me.

AJ

 

48 cfm more than a 50 series flowmaster, not many people run 50 series flowmasters on street rod applications, usually for SUVS and trucks. 48 cfm isnt going to do ****, and the fact that they doctor the graphs on their website should be something that pisses you off.

 

Kind of ironic how you totally disregard the rest of my post and don't have a rebuttal to it.

Sounds to me like your the one who's getting pissed off. Buy a Flowmaster lately or something? :sillylol:

Oh yea... FYI, the Super Turbo is ALSO Dynomax's entry level muffler. Totally equivilent to the 50 series. And the Super Turbo that is on my car would be equivilent to an 80 series since the 80 series is Flowmaster's crossflow muffler.

You need to just face the fact that Flowmaster is NOT the best flowing muffler. Seems to me that you're doing everything to avoid that fact.

And 48 isn't **** huh? That's 12%. So you're saying that 12% isn't much? WOW!!!!! I'll buy your car from you for 12% less than what it's worth, OK? Or how about if your boss decides to pay you 12% less than he is now?

You're right. 48 cfm isn't gonna make a HUGE difference except for the fact that it COSTS A LOT LESS TO GET IT!!!!!!! What part of that don't you understand?

AJ

 

I own a dynomax bullet muffler because it is the only decent sounding muffler dynomax makes, i am not at all biased- i own one of the damn companies mufflers. The 50 series flowmaster is not the ****ing entry level flowmaster, flowmaster doesn't make cheap mufflers for people trying to cut corners. Flowmasters are not the best flowing mufflers on the market either. They are quality constructed mufflers with an awesome sound. They have such a bad rap from all the POS motors that people put flowmasters on. All of my friends run flowmasters and it seems that a lot of times you sacrifice sound quality for flow #'s. The hooker max flo mufflers sound absolutely terrible on a built motor, they sound like a jet boat would. Exhaust is more so tuning the sound you want as long as it is not an enormous bottle neck, and 48 cfm is not a major difference. I doubt that is even 5 horsepower.

 

Happy birthday, a day late (sorry, didn't read this thread yesterday). Looks like you celebrated by spending the day on line...

I think I got my first traffic ticket a couple of days after you were born. Reckless driving for spinning my tires around a gravel corner in my grandfather's '68 Impala. Took a few years to live that one down.

Anyway, back on topic - any flow #'s for 40 or 80 series Flows? I'm fairly confident I'm in what Dynomax would call "zero loss". But, would be nice to know.

With regard to other "performance" mufflers, I'm highly suspecious that Warlocks are pretty poor when capped. I lose a couple of tenths when corked vs. uncorked.

 

unknown_host, i am not sure why you are saying that they doctor'd the chart. It reflects the exact same information. As far as flowmaster building a quality product, I agree...but the Welded Ultra flow is just as well built, and cheaper, and flows better than the 40 series even...I have owned a ton of mufflers, all different brands. I am not saying I am all knowing by any means, but everytime I hear a built car with flowmasters, I tend to cringe because I know they paid more and are now making less HP. As far as Max Flow's sounding like **** on a built car...I disagree, my buddy has them on his camaro with a 500+hp 406 and it sounds bad as hell...sound is everyones opinion, but the proof is in the #'s.
Rustydawg , I have not seen a whole lot on any of his books, however try just typing it into a search engine and see what you can come up with, if that turns up nothing, let me know, and I may be able to put you in touch with someone.
AJ_92RSHAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY!!!

 

a lot of flowtechs mufflers dont flow all that well

 

I dunno, my friend had them on his:
406
10.25:1 compression
Comp Extreme Energy 292 cam
Trick Flow 23* Heads with 2.02/1.6 Valves
Long Tube Ceramic Coated headers with 3" back to the two 3" max flows

It seriously sounded like an underwater jetboat.

 

The Flowtech Afterburner 2.5 in/out center/offset flows in the mid 400's as far as CFM. I talked to holley about these mufflers. There are mufflers that flow more, but for a chambered design, these are right in the pack. The afterburner is similar in design to the warlock (without the cutout) and similar to even their terminator (the louvers are much larger inside this mufflers flowtube).
Unknown_Host, everyone likes a different sound, evidently, you dislike tha Max Flow....Anyone ever heard spintechs on a built car or on anything period? That is a bad *** sounding muffler!

 

What does an 'underwater jetboat' sound like? Is it a bad sound?

 

lol its a hard sound to describe. when he would get on it it sounded sorta alright, but like a marine craft sound. and at idle it sounded underwater for some reason. he went to 40 series flowmasters and it sounds pretty rockin now. i still like my dynomax bullet muffler tho, sounds really deep and awesome

 

by underwater I think he means that the "blurble" sound that the mufflers make...I like it, he does not, just another example of opinon on sound. But you do have to admit, when on it, it does sound pretty mean...it almost barks...I would like to get some spintechs on mine...as soon as I get the $$$ they are going on there along with a channeled crossmember like dirtybird's. To add to My wish list that includes a tranny that can handle it and a 9in...maybe even a 125shot of the N20!

 

Uh, yeah. I had noticed that you've quoted a 12 second ET, and this with a 10-bolt and a T-5 yet. Lucky or what?

 

i was looking around at mufflers and i noticed the hooker aerochamber mufflers flow at 441 cfm. are they just plain better or is there a drawback? by the way, i am comparing them to flowmaster 50 series (362 cfm). also comparing them to all cheaper mufflers in general

 

The key to getting the T-5 and 9 bolt to last is not really putting a serious tire under it. If you notice, the MPH is way more than it should be for a 12.0 time. When I get a tranny and rear that will handle it, I am pretty sure I should be mid to low 11's. The best 60ft I have ever cut it 2.0xxx. Even a 1.9 60ft would put me in the 11.60's. So we will see. The T-5 has only been rebuilt once in 18 mos, should have been rebuilt more, and the posi is gone in the 9 bolt, and it is howling once in a while.
As for the hooker aerochamber, it is an excellent muffler, not only does it flow well, it has excellent scavenging properties. Flowmaster was a great muffler 10yrs ago, the made better power and held up to high HP levels. However, now there are several other companies that produce a much better flowing (ie, more HP) and for cheaper. Flowmaster produces a quality built muffler, but others make more power for cheaper.

 

I'm on board with the small tire philosophy. I'm running a 0.060"-over 283 w/Edelbrock heads, 3.42 open rear and T-5 from behind the V6 that the car came with. (4.03 1st, 2.37 2nd)

I kept to a 225/60R15 to encourage the tires to break traction under shock loads instead of the gearbox. I've been shifting as high as 7200 RPM and all I get is a chirp into 2nd thanks to the torqueless engine combo.

So far so good. I'm in a similar boat with higher MPH than expected for the ET, 14.2 @104 (G-Tech #s)

Anyway, not to sidetrack the discussion from exhaust talk...

 

heres the chart from holley on the aerochambers. all the mufflers tested in dynomaxs test tested different, but that is expected on a different bench. anyways i wonder what the aerochamber would flow on dynomaxs bench.

 

also holleys test was done at 28" h20, while dynomax was done at 20.3" h20. can someone convert these numbers so we can get a good comparison?

 

If you convert them to 20.3 like the Dynomax test, the Aero Chamber flows 375.5cfm and the Dynomax flows 306.5cfm. Both Flowmasters flow 304cfm.

There is one difference that you have to take note of. Dynomax specifically states what model # of each company was used and that they were all 2.5" in/out. Does the Hooker chart show that, or anywhere on the website? I can't find it.

I'd like to think that all tests were done with similar size mufflers, but you can't tell there. I'm not questioning Holley's nor Hooker's rep., but why don't they post all the info then?

I noticed that the Aero Chamber put out 7ft/lbs more TQ and 4 more HP than the Dynomax on a 406 SBC. The Aero Chamber is only ~$20 more per muffler (or $40 for 2 since they don't say if one or two mufflers were used ), and that's a good HP/$ ratio IMO.

When the numbers are that close, that's when it comes down to opinion of sound. But then again...... that's $40 more I could spend toward headers, intake, larger TB, etc.

AJ