I have leaky valve seals how much would it cost to get fixed ?? Also will switching to 1.6 rr help with performance ?? And would it be worth doing ?

 

i have the same problem and got a quote of anywhere from 4-600 bucks to do valve seals, in my opinions thats def not worth it and you can find enough information on this site to attempt them yourself. I will be doing so once it gets warm out. good luck to ya

 

Well you don't live to far away from me im in pompton lakes so if you are successfull on your you can do mine lol

 

i got a quote to have valve seals changed a while back, it was like 500 something...that is fckin crazy considering u can do it urself for like 20...or for that money just buy new heads, thatll fix the problem!
as far as 1.6 rockers, it depends what uve got, it will give u a little more lift...many people do it and and say it helps (cuz it does) but sometimes u may have to make mods to have the pushrods fit right, etc and i have heard from some 1.6's are really just for people who want everything they can from their engine...
-my valve seals are fcked too but i figure a little blue smoke isnt gonna hurt me till i fix it or get new heads

 

Yeah i know it can't really hurt anything but it just looks bad

 

from the directions i don't think it looks too hard. i'm sure you're capable of doing it yourself with the use of a garage, air compressor, and some tools. shouldn't be too bad

 

Where are the directions to do it are the in the tech articles ?

 

no tech article even though that might be a good idea. do a search on the boards for valve seal replacement or something that and you'll find a ton of info out there on how to do it

 

Where you able to replace the valve seals yourself? Also did you find a good article on perfoming this job? If so please post it.

Thanks

 

Valve seals aren't that bad to replace! If some people are getting quotes in the 300+ range - THAT IS ROBBERY! I usually take about 2-3 hrs to do the ones on my camaros. Since I already have a better digital camera, anyone that wants to get a mock up of how to do it, you can email me to both of these emails and I will mock this up tomorrow, with all the tools you will be needing.

pablo.ledezma@lmco.com
chevyracing@msn.com

Trust me, if you have the Chilton manual and the tools, you won't believe how easy this is.

If I was getting paid $400 a pop to do this to Camaros, I would've quit my Engineering job long ago and dedicated my life to this.

Let me know,

Pablo.

 

since by the time the seals go, its time to freshen up everything anyway, i usually pull the heads... i just hand the shop my dirty heads, and get a 3 angle valve job with new seals for under $100....

 

I did my seals over a year ago, and they are still jolding fine. Just make sure you use the positive locking ones on all the valves, the umbrella seals SUCK. It shouldn't take much more that a few hours. Mine took me like 4, but I was working on about a case of Mike's Hard Lemonade at the same time. FYI, get a good set of valve cover gaskets too. The driver side is cake to change, but the other one is a megabitch. Since you've got to have it off anyway, change that gasket.

 

Did you use an air compressor or the rope method? Also could you provide a part number? Are there any tips you can provide to me prior to me doing the replacement of the valve seals.

Thanks,
Joey

 

This otta help you out....but I didnt really follow this.....http://www.streetillusionsracing.com/RR/rr.htm

alls you really have to do is pull the valve covers, pull your spark plugs and fill the cylinder up with air then when thats done you can remove the springs...then pull the old seals off and replace with the new ones. ...I didnt go into much detail but it actually pretty easy.

Hey if I did it then Im sure you can do it. ..

Ive got some pictures too from when I did it...

 

The link with the pictures really helps out. Although he did not mention anything about using compressed air to keep the valves up. Since I have a compressor I would like to use that method. What is easier and safer using a air compressor or rope? If I were to use a compressor what are the specific parts needed? Also could you email me your pictures.

Thanks

 

just go to advance or AZ and get the spark plug fitting...they carry them...all you have to do is pull the plugs and fill the cylinder up with air...doesnt matter at what point the piston is at, it will fill up and hold the valves up........I tried the rope thing first and I didnt like that way cause when I was pulling the rope out some of it got stuck in the hole.....luckly I got the pieces of rope out..since you already have the air compressor thats the way to go.

 

Sorry guys. The weekend took me away from my internet connection. I'm sorry, but if I were to give you part #'s, I'd have to kill you. It is a topic that is classified in order to maintain national security. Just kidding, I can't give you the #'s because I can't remember them. Just go to a NAPA type store, not AutoZone, Checker or the like, and thier computer should show the "positive" type seals for the intakes and the umbrellas for the exhaust. There should also be an optional "positive" seal for the exhaust listed as well. Ther was for my car : 87 GTA TPI 350. If you have headers, the front holes (#1 & #2) are a BITCH to get the air hose into. The way I did it was with air and a lever type spring compressor. The best thing to do is find a compressoin tester kit that has the hose that screws into the cylinder and then has a fitting on the other end to hook to your air compressor. The only one I know for sure that works like that is Snap-On, because that is what I have, there may be others though. Basically, the best tip is this: only disassemble 1 cylinder at a time, not the whole head. That way you don't have as many parts to keep in the correct order for reassembly. It is also quite helpful to have a case of Mike's Hard Lemonade handy.

 

heres a picture of the kinds that I put on and I got them at AZ....

 

Hey Wishm.. And GTA-... You guys have been really helpful. Thanks....

How many PSI should the compressor be set to? Also any more tips before I attempt to perform the job this weekend. All replies are welcome.


Did any of you replace your rockers with aftermarket roller tip rockers? If so what would you recommed?

 

Wrote this for somebody a while back...

On my 87 TPI Trans Am:

Besides buying the seals, I picked up an air hold set for about three bucks to let me put compressed air (20 to 25 psi) into the spark plug holes. I put a hose barb on the end of the air hold. Next I cut a 1 foot length of air hose (with a male quick connect on one end to hook to the end of my air compressor hose). This setup made it pretty easy to hook up air to most of the cylinders, despite having to work around headers. Oh yeah, a valve spring compressor too. I used one from Autozone's loan-a-tool.

I did the passenger side first. I had to tie the heater hoses that run over the valve cover up out of the way, unplug the fuel
injectors and move that wire harness out of the way, and remove some sort of metal breather tube attached to the intake manifold near the upper valve cover flange. Then, I unplugged all my spark plug wires and removed the valve cover.

For rocker arm removal, I layed out some paper to lay the arms on after removal. I took them off back to front, counting how many turns it took to take them off. That way, I could just take note of that for each rocker arm, and put them back the same. It kept me from having to worry about resetting valve lash. In my case, every rocker arm nut was 12 turns. I put the arms down on the paper in a row and wrote it down anyways though.

To actually replace the seals, it took me a little while before I got a good system down. I started out hooking up the compressed air and then doing both the intake and the exhaust. Then I realized that this made me compress the spring, remove the keepers, uncompress the spring, remove it, and set it aside
only to have to be recompressed in order to reinstall it. So, the better method seemed to be to compress a spring, remove the keepers, and remove the spring while still at least partially compressed in the valve spring compressor. Then I could
replace the seal and put the spring back on without having to compress it again. I realize that this is not the safest way to do it. Gloves and safety glasses are a good idea.

If you use the type of valve spring compressor that I did (screw type, not rocker arm stud type), you'll likely see this problem. When I compressed the springs, the bottom coil would lift off the head, rather than the retainer moving downward so that I could remove the keepers. You've got to break loose the retainer/valve stem/keeper connection before you compress the spring (if using this type compressor). I used a large socket on
a 3" extension. I put this on the retainer and gave a few solid taps with a hammer. This made sure that when I compressed the spring, things would come loose ok on the top. Once they did, a magnetic tipped screwdriver helped remove the keepers.

Intake seals: Once the spring is removed, it is simply a remove and replace. Mine had old seals and old dry o-rings that I had to take off. The o-rings just crumbled when I messed with them, so I made sure to clean up all the little pieces. The old seals were stuck pretty well in place until I used pliers to rotate them and break them loose. Be careful using pliers in there cause you don't want to scratch the valve stem. Once the seal broke loose
from the guide, you can pull it off by hand, make sure the area is clean, and push the new seal on. Fel-pro supplies little plastic sleeves that, once trimmed, keep the new seal from catching on the grooves in the valve stem seal while you press them on. Make sure you push them on really well so they will stay in place and not slide with the valve.


Exhaust seals: My car only had o-rings to remove. As with the intake side, they crumbled and were easy to remove. The guide area was a great deal dirtier than the intake ones, so I had to rub a little harder with a rag to clean things up before putting the new seal on. The seals just slide down until they stop and then they're done.

Spring reinstallation (intake and exhaust): At this point, we've still got the new o-rings. They don't go on until the very end. With the new seal installed and the spring compressed while in place, the o-rings get put on. They go in the lower groove in the valve stem. It is a little tricky to push them down there (it is 1/4 inch or so below the top of the retainer with the spring compressed), but works fine using a couple small screwdrivers to push them down there. You can tell when they get in the right place, since they kind of pop into the groove. Once the o-ring is in place, you can put the keepers in and decompress the spring.

note: compressing the springs enough that the top of the retainer is about 1/4" inch above the plane of the valve cover gasket seemed to be the right place to make removing the keepers easy and to be able to push the o-rings down into place.

Hmmm. I guess I didn't end up following any great order in this stuff, but that's how my memory worked out for me. The most time consuming part was hooking up the air hold to each cylinder (or rope if you go that route) and replacing spark plugs afterwards. Oh yeah, most importantly, no more smoke!
They seem to be working out great so far. I almost wish I had used the other kind of valve spring compressor though. It would have eliminated having to do the hammer trick.

Ok, just one more thing. Even though the driver's side looked like it would be easier to get to, it was more work to get the valve cover off. After moving the injector wiring harness out of the way, I still had to move the A/C compressor aside to get the valve cover off and remove the wiper motor to get the valve spring compressor to the #7 cyl.

 

Hey MikeS,

That was a excellent write up... Do you happen to have pics of the air hold assembly used to keep the valves compressed? Where did you purchase your valve seals? Also do you have any part numbers for the seals. What is a better spring compressor to use? Please advise.

Thanks,
Joey

 

FYI, if you use the lever type (the one that hooks the rocker stud nut) compressor, there is no need to remove the wiper motor. the A/C compressor yes, the wiper motor no. I still have to say that actually getting the passenger side valve cover out, and back in was way more hassle than reinstalling the A/C compressor for the driver side. Also, even using a lever type compressor, you still may need to do the big socket/hammer tap to break the retainer loose. I had to on roughly half of mine. Also, to hold the valves in place I used about 90 PSI. The same that my air tools run on. I'm just too lazy to change my compressor settings from disassembly.

 

90 psi is definately better. I just got sick of hearing my compressor cycle on trying to maintain that pressure. To each his own

Pic shows an air hold set. I'm pretty sure it just comes with the silver and black parts (for two spark plug plug thread sizes). The brass part with the hose barb I added. I would have put a quick-connect here, but it hit my header tubes. The hose barb was smaller and let me aim the air hose wherever it needed to go for clearance.

I posted some fel-pro numbers before, but brought those to the store with me yesterday to buy some for another smallblock, but they said the exhaust seal part number was no good. Hmmm. Beats me. Anyways, my current fel-pro numbers are SS72527 for the intake set and SS10058 for the exhaust set. Fifteen to twenty bucks per set.

 

Hey Mike,

Once again thanks for your help. What spring compressor did you use? Also not to change the subject did you happen to remove your AIR box? If so could you let how and what you eliminated.

Thanks again.
Joey

 

I used one like this...

Are you asking about the heater box on the passenger side firewall? If so, nope, I didn't do anything with it. The valve spring compressor handle hits it a little bit, but it isn't too hard to work around.

 

both those items is exactly what I used too.

 

Here is the hose and the spring "depressor" that I used. You know now that you mention it, my compressor was kicking on & off that day. Since then I've added a storage tank to the system so it is way more efficient.

 

Do I need to remove the headers to accomplish this fix?

 

You don't even need air or the rope trick to do this. Just get a buddy to help, and do all the cylinders where the piston is up in the bore, then rotate the crank bolt 180, just like lashing the valves shows you in the chiltons manual. The valve will drop down about an inch and sit on top of the piston. Just make sure the piston is up in the bore!

 

I would definetley NOT advise doing it this way. Too much room for "oops" and then the heads have to come off. It's worth spending the time to do it right, rather than accidentially dropping a valve into the chamber.

 

How exactly could I actually verify that the piston is all the way up in the bore? Also shouldn't I rotate the crank 90 degrees each time following the firing order. Has anyone else replaced the valve seals without applying air? If so please provide detail on how it could be done.

Thanks

 

The only problem I see with the no air/no rope way is this; the valve will drop in about 1/2". How in the blue hell do you compress the spring far enough once it has dropped to get the retainer and locks back on? If you don't want to go the air route, go with the rope. It fills the slack space between the top of the piston and the valve so it doesn't drop at all. BTW, you can tell when the piston is all the way up using a TDC guage. Believe me, I've done this job, get the stuff and use air or the rope trick. IT is not nearly as complicated as it sounds. If not for the problems I had getting the hos into #1 and getting the valve covers off, I would have been done in like an hour, if that. Also, you don't need to remove your headers to do it, they only really complicate things on the #1 hole. Good Luck.

 

GTA-SPD,

Thanks for the information where can I get a TDC gauge. Also do you have pictures of the air valve holder unit and spring compressor?

 

I think Summit carries the TDS guage. I posted a pic of the air holder hose and spring compressor about 6 posts back, just scroll up.

 

I did the "rope trick"

Worked great, and cost me all of 2 dollars for the nylon rope.

Now, I did mine on a stand, but it should be pretty easy regardless.