I can't really explain it very well, so I'll do my best. I just picked my car back up after I had a shop swap an engine for me. The car had problems before, and I knew the problems would have to be fixed after the swap. Problem is, I can't figure out where to start. Here's whats going on.

When the car hits rough roads, or bumps ALL lights both exterior and interior dim. Figure its a loose connection.

Left turn signal sometimes doesn't work, or when it does both left and right interior blinkers come on, even though only the left blinkers are working (as they should be). HOWEVER, when I open the door the blinkers work as they should. I mean they work PERFECTLY. I'm stumped here.

Interior lights for gauge cluster do NOT work when the doors are closed, however when open they work as per the norm.

Electronic mirrors are not working, no way to make them work either.

Powerseats will not work.

Oil Pressure guage does NOT work. From the time you start the car to when you shut it off it pegs above 60psi. The mechanics who did the swap say the engine is working mechanically perfect and its an electrical problem...

Speedo does NOT work at all.

Coolant temp gauge does not work, constantly says between 100F or 115F, I know the engine is running hotter than this, and I'm worried that its running WAY too hot. Running hot is what caused the block to crack the last time around.

There are some more funky things, but I can't remember them now. I know the electrical was a mess when I got it, and I'm hoping that it can be fixed relatively cheaply by myself, or if anyone near the the Chicago suburbs(I.E. Elk Grove) wants to come out and help me with this I'd be grateful. I'm lost and I don't know where to even start.

When I got the list I found out they replaced nearly every fricken sensor in the car! Apparently they all went bad over the 6 month duration while the car sat waiting for a new engine, and before I bought the car.

I suspect that the electrical problems are pre-existing to the engine swap as the speedo didn't work before the swap. And there are a few clues that make me think that way.

 

Hmmm, have you checked the back of the fuse block? Or the wiring harness? Who knows... could even be a combo of shorts and bad grounds.

 

Thats my assumption too, I'm not too knowledgable about electrical though. I don't think this is one short, I think its a bunch of them that are affecting each other.

Either that, or my gauges are just plain dead. All I know is I need some major help with this. Its really weird. I guess the only way is for someone more knowledgable to look at the car in person and make some guesses from there.

So if anyone near Elk Grove Vll. IL wants to come down and help me sort this mess out I'd much appreciate it. If I can't get this sorted out by June then I'm not sure if I'll be willing to drive it all the way down to Maryland for TG Nats. Wouldn't want to risk screwing the car up.

 

I really need your help with this guys. I come here because i like reading about 3rd gens, and I want to learn more about how to fix certain things.

From what I've seen, I know the problem is electrical, probably a loose connection somewhere. More than likely its a combination of several shorts, but these shorts are damn dangerous. My turn signals don't work. Sometimes the head lamps dim, or turn off completely when I hit rough roads. So its damn dangerous to drive it at night.

I really need help, and can't quite afford to pay someone to find the short.

 

Im going through the same crap Im rewireing it tottally ripping out everywire and replaceing them Its alot of work but it can be done Im carbarated so electrics arnt that vital to me

 

Check all easy things first then go from there.

Engine to firewall ground strap. That thing gave me headaches for a while.
All battery and starter connections, alternator as well. Most autopart stores will test batt. and alt. for free, (this is a load test not a connected right test).
All bulbs and fuses.

After checking all that, next would be looking at the wiring behind the healight switch. Somebody might have hacked into it for whatever reason. Maybe try a new headlight switch, they can be had for $10 at Junkyards.

With the interior blinker lights, usually that means there is a bad bulb somewhere, check ALL of the exterior bulbs. Front, Rear and so on.

Electric mirriors - Check fuse first, then pull the switch in the drivers door and clean all contacts with alcohol, then press the plugs back into the switch firmly.

Power seats - Check fuse first (I know, but so many people skip the easy things and end up making things worse), then look under the drivers seat, should be an orange and black connector there (power and ground) make sure they are plugged up, if not test to see if theres power there. If you have power, then the switches on the seat need to be looked at, or the seat motor itself is bad.

Oil pressure gauge - You know first. The gauge itself could be bad or not. Look in the engine bay at the firewall to the right of the dist., there should be a cylinder looking thing abouth the size of an egg screwed in to an oil line, with an orange wire and plug plugged into it. Take the plug off, start the car, there should be no oil pressure reading on the gauge, this confirms the gauge and sender are doing something. BTW, the gauges in our cars are not that accurate, just a good idea of how things are going pretty much (ie. sudden increases or drops). I really wouldnt worry about it, but you could hook up an aftermarket gauge if you really want to.

Speedo - Is it electric or cable driven? If cable, it should be hooked up near the tailshaft on the tranny. Inspect the cable going from there to the firewall. If electric, I couldnt tell ya.

Temp gauge - Look at drivers side cylinder head, inbetween #1 and 3# spark plugs is where the temp sender is located. There should be a single green wire hooked to it. If not, I bet its dangling around there somewhere, find it hook it up see if it works. If not, take that same green wire and put it to a ground, if the temp gauge peggs out, then the actual gauge is good and the sender is bad, if it dosent move at all, then the actual gauge is bad or the wire is cut somewhere.


These are just some things to get you started, if you need anything else, let us know. It might take some time, but you will get it. Oh, I know I didnt explain everything great, but just trying to help.

Good Luck

 

I dont think i have the sending units at all could someone up load a picture of the temp and oil

My Problem is that my Gas,volt,oil,and temp dont work my speedo works but its very incorrect and some of the lights on my gauges work.

 

K, I haven't figured out whats wrong with the electrical system, but I do know a bit more about its problems.

The drivers side mirror only works when the parking lights are on. This makes several things ONLY operate when those lights are one, which does help me narrow it down a bit. And no, I didn't forget to move the toggle switch from driver to passenger for the mirror.

The Coolant temp sensor is installed correctly and it was a brand new unit when they did the engine swap. They say the gauge cluster is bad.

My speedo is electric. Its a 1989 GTA, and as far as I know they generally used the VSS. So unless someone changed the speedo over it should still be electric. Right?

All exterior bulbs work correctly when signalling, so they aren't out. I KNOW its an electrical short! In fact, the previous owners probably didn't put it back together correctly, and I'm up the creek without a paddle.

 

Update, sorry for the large amount of pics, but I have a few loose wires in there, some broken connectors, and what looks like a loose ground wire. No clue on where its supposed to connect though.

The first two images are of the same connector. As you can see in the first pic, its broken in half. I have NO clue what this connector is even for. But I traced the lines from the steering column. Is this for the steering wheel radio controls? I need to get ahold of a GM service manual.



This wire looks like its a ground, and I suspect its supposed to be connected to the metal bar right above it. Connecting it seems to have NO affect on the cars electrical systems that I can see.


I've also noticed that EVERYTHING power operated is moving extremily slowly. 9d1burd noticed this when we went for a ride in my car. The power windows worked fine when I got the car, along with the pop-up head lights. But ever so slowly they are moving slower day by day. I suppose I'll need to get a volt meter and check how much power the alternator is putting out. The car starts quickly and runs very strong. It doesn't seem as if the car is not getting enough power for spark. But every power item on the car runs slowly if at all.

If anyone knows where I can get a full service manual for my car, please let me know. If I had full wiring diagrams it'd be MUCH easier to trouble shoot this car. As it is, I'll probably check behind the dash tomorow. I don't want to install my radio till I get this whole electrical mess sorted out.

 

By a chance, do you're hazards flash in the rear? By looking at the second pic. and my manual, it shows that connector having to do with the brake switch, and the hazards. I have never worked on a firebird, but just trying to help out.

I needed to say check ALL BULBS AND FLASHERS, not just bulbs.

Anyways, Good Luck.

 

Yeah, the hazzards work. Wanna know something weird? If you hit the trunk release button the idiot "brake" lights up! Funky.

When you say flashers, do you mean the little silver bell on the drivers side, near the radio pod? Its got a weird angle plug connector.

 

Purchased a new flasher for the turn signals, problem seemed to be fixed for about 3 minutes, then it was the same ol', same old thing.

BTW, is the engine to firewall ground strap located on the driver side cylinder head? I've got a bolt there with what looks like a ground strap on it, but i can't see any wires leading away from it. The engine was too hot to get my hands in there, I'll check in the morning before I go to school.

Cataloged a few more idiosynchrosis.

When the trunk lid popper button is pressed the "emergancy brake" light turns on.

When the parking lights are on the following things happen:

Funky crap huh.

Also, the voltmeter is ALWAYS in the 7 to 8 range. It almost never gets out of the yellow. Could this mean that my alternator is either insufficient, or on its way out?

(by the way, when I filled up this morning i dropped 19 gallons into the tank. WTF, I though these cars had either 15.5 gallon, or 18 gallon tanks. Where'd I get a full extra gallon?)

 

If you have a simple volt meter you can test the alt. to see if it is working properly. Just put the two probes on the batt. With the car running you should see somewhere between 13.0V to 14.0V, with it off it should somewhere close to 12.5V. If you have no meter, go to an autoparts store and they will usually test it for free.

My firewall ground strap is on the passengers side, most that I have seen are there also.

Dont know what to say about the Gas Tank, maybe the pump was overcharging you. J/K

 

I recorded a small quicktime video of my voltmeter, when the car is off, when its idling and when I rev it. Its weird, it won't budge a milimeter. Sorry about the size of it, I don't have anyway to convert or compress it any futher. Stupid quicktime. I wish it recorded in AVI format so I could convert it to Divx.

Voltmeter movie, 5 megs

Turn signals barely work, if at all when the voltmeter on the dash shows 8v to 10v. Something is not right.

Can't anyone post some pics of WHERE I should be testing with the voltmeter. Kind of a map if you will? Voltage is good here, so go test the next point here.

 

Found my engine to firewall ground strap. But where is it supposed to connect to, and where can I get a new one?

 

Hey what was your original motor that you changed out and what did you put in?

 

It was an apples, for apples swap. Seems the HITHEREHITHEREHITHEREHITHEREHITHERE HITHEREHITHEREHITHEREHITHEREHITHERE joke has cut the link to the movie

here it is in text form
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/wjrneo2/hosted/voltmeter.MOV

 

Yeah HITHERE remember last years HITHEREHITHEREHITHEREHITHEREHITHERE HITHEREHITHEREHITHEREHITHEREHITHERE joke, if you logged on to TGO, you were sent to HITHERE tree huggers site. HITHERE was like HITHEREHITHEREHITHERE, then HITHERE quickly remembered. Pretty damn funny considering that site got more hits that day than it ever had.

Anyways, youre ground strap looks hosed. HITHERE'm not for sure if its the root of all of you're problems, but its worth replacing. Just go get HITHERE 12in. long piece of 4ga. wire and some ring terminals, then just bolt it up. You could probably go to the local stereo shop and get some good stuff for less than $5.

Also couldnt see the movie, and what was up with the Volt meter again?

 

Stgklr, my ISP is having a fit. :*(

The movie shows that no matter what I do, the voltage never gets above 10v. Idle or when reving. Its always the same. But I have 12.5 v at the battery when the car is off, and about 14v when the car is running. So obviously the alternator is working correctly.

The Blower motor also shows 14v @ idle.

All interior accesories + headlights, turnsignals, and brake lights are affected by this voltage drop.

 

Woot! I found the missing ground! The ground for the negative battery cable wasn't connected! It was tied up with electrical tape so I didn't even see the wire! I only found it because a few times ALL electrical power was cut to the car. It would just die. The only thing that would work would be the starter. I grounded the line and immeadiately I had full power EVERYWHERE. I still have to connect the engine to firewall grounds, and figure out what those sets of relays are forw. One of them needs to be stripped, cleaned and re-pinned to a new connector.

I still have my guage problems, and my battery line for the radio pod is still dead, but the accessory line in the radio pod now reads 14v when the car is idleing. WooHOO!! If it hadn't have been for the electrical dieing I'd never have found that negative ground lead. Its not where it was grounded before, but it'll do till I can go pick up some stuff.

 

I told you so. J/K

See there is no reason to get frustrated, it usually turns out to be something so minor, that you just look over it. Oh well, glad to see you found the problem.

 

I have a 87 GTA and when I hit the trunk release I get the brake light to come on on the dash. Now when I hit it with the e brake pulled it pops the trunk, try that and see if it stops.

 

Here' is a list of what I've done to the car so far. Just to give you an idea of how much is original.

Bought car for $1,000
New engine
New rims/tires
New radio/speakers
New shocks/struts

Used tranny coming soon, old one is dying and I don't have the cash.
MOOG front-end rebuild kit is a possibility
New wheel soon
....

Get the idea? There is very little on this car left from the factory. I guess that one day I'll end up replaceing teh driveshaft, rear suspension components.

Essentially, when this project is done it will be a new car from the ground up!

 

Alright then, your welcome. Pretty much less than I've done to my car, but oh well. Just trying to throw some Humor in to the mix, but thats cool.

 

Ahh, but I didn't do this to upgrade from stock. I have to replace the crap because its dying. :*(

I WISH I was doing this becasue I wanted to upgrade from stock stuff.

 

Just bumping this too the top for you.