Hello.

Just wanted to show some of what I did. I (as many people here have done already) converted a victor jr to efi.

I tried to use as much as possible from the stock tpi, including rails etc.

Maybe it will be fun for some to look at.

I haven't been able to drive it yet (4" snow) but it runs alright (in the garage).

/Björn

 

added another pic.

 

Neat!

 

looks nice

what made ya choose that way for FI?

 

bad ***, mad props, yo

 

Looks very good. What was involved in doing the conversion. Where did you get the box etc etc. I have a 305tpi, but just got a 400sb and was planning on going carb but your setup is interesting. Pleas share.....

 

If you havent installed it yet it would be real cool to see some pics of the runner ports, and how the injector sits inside.

 

That is sweet!!! Its almost like a HSR(comparing flow #s and runner length..in pic) but you dont ahve to buy fuel lines, or a TB right away!! Not to mention you can pick up a Vic Jr. for $100 most of the time!!

 

Didnt look at the 1st pic of it in the car??

 

Doh, was focused on the second

 

im betting the plenum is custom made, but doesnt look real hard to do. probably use a carb spacer on the bottom. you can get injector bungs from summit, then just align everything, mark it, and drill some holes, and weld em in.

 

Love it. Very interesting. Cant wait for some times ,numbers, or soem kills!

 

that's very innovative and impressive!

 

Ok, when I decided to do this, it was for two reasons..

-Cost

-The challange.

This has cost me about $250 total, including $160 for the intake. The rest is basically screws, fittings, flat bar, clamps etc..

Also, since I am in Sweden (scandinavia), availability of custom rails and so on is not like in US and prices are therefor higher.

Plus, I didn't see the need for new rails other than that it would look more trick.

So here's what I did.

-Made the "box" from 100x10mm flat bar with 5mm aluminum base and lid. (I wanted to use aluminum all around but it was not available). Cut a hole in the bottom to fit intake.
Drilled and tapped the whole thing...... (over 50 holes.... REALLY regretted not finding aluminium flat bar.....)
I guess I could have gotten away with just 8 holes in the lid but I thought it looked cool with a row of bolts all around.

-Made injector bungs out of an old Renthal motocross handlebar (bent from a crash) I had laying around. Inside diameter fit perfectly with injectors. Has a healthy 2-3 mm wall thickness.

-Drilled the intake for the injectors VERY carefully to line it up and pressed (well hammered to be honest) the "bungs" in there. Injectors sit very tight from that, then I sealed it with epoxy...
Hopefully it will not crack.... if it does I'll have to get it welded..

-To use the original rails and had to flip them right-to-left to make room for the hard lines and to make the connectors to have room.

-I also had a talk with the piping department at work as to if it was safe to use rubber hose for the fueling (was worried about that) and they said ok...don't worry about it.

(I still have my fire extinguisher (sp??) ready when I run it.)

What else...... well I made some mistakes also, one was that I placed the TB way to far forward and had a h£ll of a time making it clear the thermostat housing. I had to cut apart the housing and re-shape it and I still only have 1mm clearance tb-water neck.

-Next problem was water connectors... we use R-treads for water here in eurpoe instead of npt.. wich makes npt costly... app.$10-$20 for a 1/2 to 3/8 adapter.... luckily R1/2 fits 1/2NPT with some convincing of the wrench..

Anyway, I got the thing to run and I have some initial pump shot problems, I'm doing some proms increasing pump shot and it's getting better. Havent run it on the street yet but I will say that despite the stumble/backfire it really feels good, snappy almost as a motorcycle.

Oh yes, I had to relocate the temp sender to the airbox lid and put the egr in the trash....


I drove the car last summer with tpi (siamesed) and it honestly wasn't very strong. I scanned max 220 g/sec maf at 4800 where it dropped of (wich would be normal tpi behaviour).

Hopefully now it will be stronger but I still need to do some work on the transition maf to tb. It is not good now (well it's duct taped actually...). I will most likely do some aluminium sheet metal thingy..

That I think sums it up, I'm pretty happy with how it turned out and I hope it doesn't go up in a ball of flames. I'll see in april if I get it to perform anything.

Oh, I'll see if I have some more pics of stuff.

/Björn.

 

You plan on addressing the heads and cam if the intake works out I hope?

 

Wow, that's a strange animal you've made - I hope it runs properly and there's not too much confusion in your ECM. Very innovative and appears to be well crafted

 

well the heads are pocket ported double humps and the cam is enough fof me (comp NX 224/236 113 lsa). Heads could be better but it has to do for now.

Ecm will be ok, had to back timing down plus let it idle at around 1000 rpm (wouldn't idle lower with tpi last summer). It will be fine I think with some tweaking.

Something else...(maybe be of help to someone) I had a huge oil consumption problem last summer (engine just rebuilt), and I finally tracked it down to my shiny pretty aftermarket valve covers.... it was sucking up oil like crazy through the pcv. Turned out that the baffling in the stock gm covers was truly needed in my app.

I was really scared for a while thinking I messed up the engine assembly but I figured it out by making a test oil separator from some hose, pipes and an old spice jar... (dont laugh).

I swapped back to stock valve covers and problem solved.

 

Looks like u did a great job if thats your first time out fabbing stuff together .....................

Been debating doing something similiar or the lt1 intake route but im kinda stuck on the fact that i have vortec cyl heads .................so maybe once the sc project is underway/completed that will be my next fun little project to make the formula run even harder .......... do the same to a edelbrock carb maniold for vortecs, sure i could find one used

Looking good
LAter
Jeremy

 

So will that make more power than say a ported stock TPI intake setup? Even if it doesn't... that is sweet looking!

 

that is VERY VERY cool.


you're the first person ive seen to reuse the TPI rails in their custom EFI project.... glad to hear it worked out for ya..... im attempting the same thing, only im also welding together the entire intake.... right now i only have the mounting flanges and valley cover part done.. nothing welded... i wanted to start the runners this weekend, but looks like i'll be pulling a motor instead..

excelent job on the motorcross handlebar thing.. lol.. you got me thinking, hey... i have a tweeked one somewhere in the attic... (along with a late 90s YZ125 pro circuit pipe, for sale.. PM me.. lol.)




any more pics??? like close up?
did you reuse the stock fuel pressure regulator?

 

Thats sweet.

So is that like a plain old empty box inside, or is there anything special you did inside?

 

a lil late now that the intake is on the car, but you could take the intake to a machine shop and have them mill some off the thermostat housing area... perhaps a lil off the bottom of the cover too... would clear a lil easier then...

or if theres still room, you could use a carb spacer under the box (assuming it fits like a carb) and that would raise it high enough to clear better...


or instead of a spacer, a plate nitrous system............... :lala:

 

Haha, that is EXACTLY what i was thinking about.....*looks at NX bottle*

 

-True, I guess could have a machine shop mill the water neck down some. I'll probably raise the box some instead, as suggested. 1/2" should be enough.

Actually I don't think I have more than 1" or thereabout until the box hits the hood.

Oh, the box by the way is just that, an empty box. I read some of vader and some other people's views on plenum volume and decided that this would be better for flow than an elbow pipe. Something about air speed slowing down and mass and...... well it made sense when I read it :-)

FPR is stock also, but sits on drivers side hanging over the valve cover (which will be more difficult to remove now though).

This setup will most likely (fingers crossed) make more power than my old tpi, especially in the upper powerband

 

pic

 

Hurry up and get rid of that snow!! I know im anxious to hear how it runs.....

 

btw, is it just me, or are thoes fuel rails on backwards?

 

did you not read all his posts. He had to flip em so they worked. fight to left.

 

ahhh..when he said left to right i was thinking he swapped sides, not having them face the other way....

in anycase it looks cool.... functional too..

 

It looks good, and really has me thinking.... I have three TPI's that I was going to hack up and use on my Procharged 85 Vette. I was going to do the siamese route and alster anything I could to increase flow. But its funny that the engine I am putting into the Vette currently HAS a Victor Jr on it !!! And the thought of a conversion NEVER crossed my mind.
BTW- doesnt someone make that throttle body to carb plate adapter commercially? I think I have seen them made from cast aluminum. I do understand that cost overseas is a factor though.

 

As long as the rubber hose is rated for fuel injection it will be O.K. If it's standard rubber fuel hose, it will burst. Don't trust it unless you know the burst pressures of the hose you're using. It's to easy to replace it now and know that you won't have any problems.

Neat idea to convert it though!

 

Oh yes, the hose is for FI alright, I'm more worrying about having alot of clamps and pipe-hose-pipe connections all over.

Anyway, did some more prom testing today and backfire/stumble
is gone for now.

Still in garage though....

My clothes still stink of exhaust.... and I hate winter.

 

Yeah, hose clamps and F.I. don't mix very well over time. It will work for quite a while before that happens though. You could always do hard lines and AN flare fittings in the future.

Dang snow!

 

I am new here but that is sweet and what are your hp ratings how much did you gain?

 

Update:

Snow here is finally dissapearing and yesterday I took the car out for a test drive for the first time.

To sum it up.. I love it...

Sure, it's still running rough and the tune is far from good but still, it's just so much fun.

Anyway, to take a step back, when I first started it up after the intake swap it ran bad. Backfiring through intake and popping and so on.

I increased pumpshot a bit and it ran better, not good but better.

Took it for a short drive down the street just to find that it was buckling and dropping a cyl and I barely got back home....

What to do... I figured to find out if its just lean or if I had some other thing going on (vac leak, injector clogged, positioned wrong etc) I lowered my injector constant from 22.8 to 19.3 (or so) just to see, and wow, that was better.

I still have issues but I love the powerband now, sure tourqe is down at low rpm but alot less than I expected, and even though I just pulled to 4500 rpm it was plenty strong..

Of course my laptop crashed yesterday so I couldnt do any scan...

Plugs are black thou... probably a bit rich..

Anyway, just wanted to share my experience..

/B

 

Hello Bjorn, very nice project you got, looks A LOT like what I´m currently working on. Except that I'm using the MegaSquirt EFI computer to run my car (not fully installed yet). My plenumbox looks a little bit different and I haven't made the fuelrails yet.

Í'm also located in Sweden (Stockholm). I got my intake for $120 (used), I then got ahold of two Volvo 850 turbo TB's. Made the injector bungs from 30 mm solid aluminum bar in the lathe.

Pictures can be found here:
http://aldengard.lixom.nu/gallery/intake-conversion

Or the whole project:
http://www.itv.se/~a1003/turbo/

/Anders

 

Hey Bjorn, just wanted to say thanks for the inspiration.

I bought a victor jr along with my other parts and started to modify it today. I'm doing pretty much what you did, but I'm gonna try and use solid line between the fuel rails opposed to the rubber. I drive about 90 miles a day, and it would suck if one of the rubber lines came loose on me. I also plan on making a plenum with a volume of about 175-200 cubic inches, and was curious why you went with a smaller volume one.

If anyone else is doing this, the injector bung tubing needs to have an ID of approx .535" It doesn't have to be exact because you can make up the difference with the o-rings.

Any other fabrication tips?

Once again Bjorn, :hail: :hail: :hail:

 

How would something like this work using a TBI throttle body mounted directly over the plenum, and eliminating the box?
It would be like a high performance version of the Edelbrock MPFI conversion.

 

that would be:

using a single plane intake with a carb to TBI adapter and the TBI on top....



TBI guys call it changing intake manifolds... do it all the time.

 

Only rather than using the 2 TBI injectors, use the 8 batch fire injectors as in Bjorn's modified victor jr intake.
Then just use the TBI throttle body to replace the TPI throttle body/ box.
The MAF would need to have a custom elbow made for it then, but maybe that would be a good setup too.

 

As far as I know, with the MPFI the plenum area is a required for a number of reasons. The recommended plenum volume is usually 50% of the engine displacement.

 

Maybe this is late but here are some thoughts.

On plenum volume: I actually tried to make my box as big as I dared. My first tought was to locate my fuel rails different from how they ended up. That is why it looks to narrow. I also did a rough calculation on the volume. If I include the volume inside the Vic jr that also attributes to the total plenum colume (which I believe to be correct) I end up at around 160 cui. ( I am now at work so I'm guesstimating some). That goes with the info abouve of 50% of displacement. Most likely I used that number also.

Now after driving around some this spring I have some reflections.

The car runs nice. Powerband is mostly limited to my cowardness wit the gas pedal. Still havent pulled much more than 6100.

I now see maf topping out at 252-254 gr/sec at 5700 so I guess that is where my heads ends it.

Drivability is still good, only thing I cannot get rid of is a lean miss at very light cruise 1900-2000 rpm. After reading many posts and tried quite a few things I have come to accept it. I believe that it is a combination of cam+intake+gearing that is causing this.

It is wierd, because if I just speed up a little little bit from my miss-area it goes away compleately.

Oh, I also added a carb spacer, as some of you suggested. Very good Idea and something I should have seen. Good call. Intake line up perfectly and I still have a good 1/2 inch hood clearance.

Fabrication tips... uhh.. take your time.. keep stuff clean... make measurments twice... and then once more time.

Make sure the water temp sensor is located in the waterflow and not on a hose end as I had to begin with. Temp readings will be off by 20-30 degrees Celsius othervice.

I also had a CAI once, going out by the battery tray. That worked worse than the stock air lid w. KN and baffles removed.

Other than that it should be pretty straight forward. If someone els is doing this and plan on bolting it together, please make it all aluminum. Steel is a pain to drill and tap. Really.

Injector bungs seem to hold up though they are epoxied, also the fuel hoses are still intact.

Still ride w. fire exsinguisher though.

Anyway, this is a fun and cheap thing to do. The only real difficulty is to drill the injector holes unless you have access to good machinery (which I didn't).


Bjorn

 

Call it the Herman Munster.Just kidding I hope it works for ya. Im looking at modifing a super victor to EFI for my LT4. I dont like the RPM restriction of the bread box GM intake. Ran 12.90 last summer on motor.Filled the NO2 bottle but broke that 4L60E piece of **** for a tranmission again before I got back to the track.