O.k. guys, You helped me with my code reading issues, and helped me determin that I no-longer want the 2.8 fleabag engine. so, I have an 83 buick electra estate wagon, with a 307 stroker, 11:1 compression, etc, etc, that I want to swap in. from what I've gathered, I need the following. A bellhousing from a mid to late 80's small block f-body, shorty headers, the 307 obviously, motor mounts from an 80's small block f-body, v-8 radiator, v8 f-body clutch kit, maybe a new throttle cable, fuel pressure regulator, and some miscellanious fittings and fasteners for things like the fuel lines and such. Am I forgetting anything??? what about the computer? Is it gonna bitch at me or cause any problems, or do I just pull the check engine bulb like I did with my 89' starion? -Colt

 

A 307 is not a stroker. It is not 11:1. It is about 8.5:1, much like the Chevy 305 that would have come in the corresponding Caprice wagon. It puts out about 140-150 HP at best, like the LG4 in the Caprice of the same year did. It is junk.

I know, my wife had one (84 LeSabre) for several years.

It has the BOP V8 bolt pattern on the back of the block, not the Chevy V8 one. It will therefore not bolt up to a Chevy V8 bell housing. That means you can't use it with a V8 700-R4. It also won't bolt up to a 6-cyl 700-R4. And since those are the oly 2 kinds of transmissions that came in these cars, that means there's no stock 700-R4 that will work. The ONLY transmission that will work, without replacing the torque arm so that you can use a non-thirdgen case, is the 200-4R out of a Turbo TA. And those aren't easy to find, since there were only 1500 some odd of them made in the first place.

I know of no one making Olds headers for these chassis. So your headers will be probably a $$$strictly custom$$$ deal. I know of no Olds mounts for these cars either, although mounts are usually not too hard to fake. But it is just one more opportuinty for error.

Basically, you will spend more money trying to graunch that "free" turd in there, than if you went out and bought a Chevy V8 outright, and used a bunch of stock stuff that all fits. And at the end of it all, assuming you carry it all the way through to completion, you'll have a slower car than an original LG4 305.

It is way to much maze to run, with way too little cheese at the end. I strongly suggest that you re-think the whole idea, because you will spend vast amounts of money and time, and will surely be disappointed in the end, even if it ever finally does run and drive. More than likely though, you'll end up abandoning it halfway through, and find that you have just poured a whole bunch of time and money down the drain.

If you were an experienced Olds motor person, with lots of Olds experience, and spare parts, and access to parts and info, and all that, that would be one thing. But to do this because you think it will be cheap, is a mistake.

 

There are ways around the torque arm. One of the possibilities is taking a t350 with th BOP pattern and puttign the 700r4 output and tailshaft in and on it(respectively). That can allow the torque arm. I did this with mine to eliminate the V6 700r4. As for the headers, you can get shorties for it and have a custom y pipe made. Personally I cant see the piont in going thru the work for a 307. I had one that ran really well one time, but it wasnt worth the work. However, didnt they make a chevy 307 too? I think my dad had one in a nova. I'm not sure what the bell housing pattern is on those.

 

I forgot to mention that the motor was JUST rebuilt and the tranny went.The headfs were shaved way down. and I dont want all that money to go to waste. Thats why I wanted to do it. and yes, chevy made a 307. and what about cutting an adapter plate to mate the engine to the tranny. the exhaust would be vette style shorty headers, and I would bend the pipes myself for it. I'd rip the old mani and carb off, go edelbrock, and swap for a better cam. so I'm pretty sure that the engine will perform with the 305's. It's not a damn greaseball ya know. but I decided to be smart here, and contact a tranny shop. so I'll let you know. -Colt
p.s., the 307 has torque out the *** and is half nickel, and are WAY WAY structurally stronger than even the BEST built v-8 So I can hammer on her a bit and not worry bout blowin anything

 

Yes, Chevy made a 307; it was discontinued after about 1972. It was the lowest possible performance V8 of its day; never even came with a 4-barrel, they were 2-barrel only, with the smaller 2GC version. But your 83 station wagon motor doesn't have one of those. It's an Olds motor.

"Vette shorty style headers" won't fit it. It's an Olds motor, not a Chevy, and no Olds motors ever came in Vettes. For that matter, I doubt that most Vette headers would fit a thirdgen anyway; that's why they're "Vette headers" in the first place, not "Vette and thirdgen headers".

It has about the same torque as a Chevy 305.... a little over 300 inches worth. I know, I've had them too. You're seriously kidding yourself if you think it's going to be fast. You're about right, it will perform right about comparable to the Chevy 305s.... specifically, the LG4s. The bottom of the line V8. Except it weighs more. It's an Olds motor.

I don't think you've realized just yet how much stuff won't fit, and how much you're going to have to fab and buy and figure out and otherwise sweat over the details. It's not a bolt-up by any means.

Good luck if you decide to do it. Let us know how it turns out. If you're determined that it's the best thing for you to do in your situation, don't let normal reason and experience talk you out of it; go for it. Track times or dyno numbers would be great.

 

thanks, I always have rebelled against good advice. sometimes turning out good,other times bad. I was also wondering, the auto tranny's were the 400-r4 and 200, but what are the 5 speeds in 89'? -Colt

 

The only year for the 200 was in '82 I think. After that was all 700R4.

There were two 5-speeds... the T5, and the World Class T5. The WC T5 is the stronger of the two, but I dunno when they started to be used. '89 sounds about right.

 

The only years for the 200c which is a chevy tranny was 82 and 83. It won't work. You need a 200-4r came in 83 and i believe till 89. Thats what i'm looking for, to replace my th350.

 

Seems like my old 82 olds regency 98 (quite a mouthful) had a 307 with CC carb and a 200 tranny. I know because I changed it twice. I wouldnt give a cup of warm pi** for another one.

 

what about 2 cups of warm ****?!!!! I'll give ya 2 for that tranny! :hail: -Colt

 

No offense, but this is one of the worst engine swap ideas I've ever heard. In fact it borders on retarded. Why don't you sell the 83 Buick along with it's rebuilt engine? Not only is your idea a complete ***** of an engine swap that yields no benefits, but you also end up with a worthless 83 buick with no engine. At least you can sell the buick and get something out of it. Take the proceeds and buy yourself a decent 350 crate engine.

 

c'mon now, lets play nice. Its his car, its his choice. No matter what its a thirdgen and thats what these boards are for. We'll help no matter what.

 

Whats not nice about that? It is just a bad idea, plain and simple

 

i have a LO3 chevy 305 in my car now...... its pretty fast, although i have no speedo to find out. also with the 700-r4 i can powerbrake it and it'll shift into second( leaving a nice long line of rubber a might add ) as for get up and go its alright....... as long as ur trans can shift down. basically a 305 is alright if thats the best you can deal with but think of it this way...... if the 305 was even barely good there would be crate motors of it... the 307 is a glorified 305, 2ci? bah. if ur 2.8 *****-on-training wheels engine runs fine, stick a fart pipe on it and make ppl mad and use it while you save for a cheapo 350 crate shortblock ( 2gs at summit for the cheaper one ).

 

RB83L69 is right. Sell the engine and cut your losses - literally. If you go forward with this idea you'll lose both financially and performance wise. You asked for advice... now be smart and take it.

 

I agree... even a 305 would be a better choice. At least the 305 has some potential. The 307 has no potential at all, especially if its a BOP motor. If it was a Chevy 307, then maybe, but not a BOP.

 

I agree its a bad idea. You could probably sell the car with the motor (the 307) and buy either a nice 350 or the parts for one with the money. Thats probably what I would do.

 

ok,ok,ok,ok,ok,ok, O.K> I get the point, But I'm no rich man. I guess it's time to find a damn 400 small block and some front spirings. (mumbling under my breath) alright, whatever guys, but if the tranny shop contacts me and tells me there's a bellhousing, I'm taking it. -Colt

 

dude think about it this way..... what parts (o fany kind) do you ever see in jegs, summit, or jcw ,or anything for the 307? the 305 barely has parts made specifically for it... and ur not rich but ur getting a 400, laff. good luck in the most sincere terms tho

 

I have a TH350 with a universal BOP bellhousing and torque converter. Kind of a rare beast, as you are learning. I have never used it so I don't know the operating condition. Just kept it around for several years because of it's flexibility to mount to many type of engines. It is in Richland, WA if you want to make the trip. $400 and it's yours. It has been stored in an enclosed shed away from outdoor elements.

 

you'd be better off putting an iron duke in that car,,,a 307 has 145 hp!!!and very little potential. this is the goofiest idea i've ever heard of, you'd have to spend $2,000 to get the same horespressure a 350 chev would have...

 

i think the whole 200 dollars to equal a stock 350 chev is a little bit overkill, the motor will be a pain in that a** and be a relatively poor performer. its that simple.

 

horespressure....... the new rating unit of power... better than horsepower lol

 

you see guys, the thing IS, that over in spokane I know a guy who has a 78' firebird, that has a 400 smalls, with a bunch of edelbrock and headman goodies on it with only 2700 miles since the rebuild. His son was the one who drove the car and was a good freind of mine, till he joined the military 3 years ago, and the car has gone to **** as far as the body and interior are concerned due to vandalism. I sent jerod pictures, and he said for $1000 I could have it. it started about a month ago when I was there, (took me 4 hours of bull****) and runs good.(i can rev it real quick and make the front end tap the ground ) but, the question is, fix up an iron beast? Or pull the motor and swap it into something that's newer and handles better. the engine and cars #'s don't match since it's a crate engine. But, I know where the engines at. And what the hell do I do ith the body afterwards????? let me know what you guys think. and does anyone make coil-overs for the 89' firebird? It would be better than buying factory v8 springs. -Colt

 

Check out PA Performance for coil over suspension. I have their package for my '89 Firebird.

 

oooooh id say pick up the grandpa chicken and put the OE engine back in... and put the 400 in my car... lol j/k in urs... for $1000 thats a good deal i mean the body may need work but it could be a fun retso project over the years.... be kind kill a tree, pollute the air, and save an elderly F-Body from the heap.

 

Hey man, if you really wanna V-8 swap the size of a 307 or so, I got a 305 you can have for free, Its been sitting since I yanked it outta my car end of last summer! All the LG4 power you can handle, Carb to Pan...

 

eww groady my schools shop had and 83 or so berlinetta( my rims are offa it actually) with the LG4... heh its liek the weakest v8 chevy made. check out this site for some fbody history http://www.f-body.org/tech/tech.htm

 

Trust me I know, I drove the car for 6 months before the motor swap, Previous owner did a cam swap but it was still deadly slow, Only savior was a built trans so it would still chirp gears and pretty fun to drive....Then I got my 350 done and swapped in and it was a whole new game!!

Edit: But still a better swap then a 307 olds, Alot easier to do!

 

thats funny as hell! I guess if you guys say the deals good, I'll take it. gonna be alot of chrome though. but oh well. I found out when I called jerod that the 400 was perchased from ebay as an edelbrock built crate engine. (explains all the edelbrock ****, AND all the damn chrome, ****in edelbrock. ) he claims that with 255 mickey slicks the car would bring the front tires quite a bit off the ground. (what kind of fuel economy am I gonna get!!!!!! ) I don't know honestly, which is worth more, the (and I thought that was funny>>) "grandpa chicken", or the 89' with that engine? we all know which is faster due to a like, 1000 lbs weight diff. but what about the classic aspect here? restore the 78' with the engine still in it and get the original engine built back to where it should be (or better ) and THEN do the swap. and buy the way guys, what do you think of my idea here.... I've always wanted to save a car for many many decades by this, imagine a HUGE vaccum bag, place the car inside with antimolding, mildewing, etc agents, and vaccum seal it, and then place it in a safe place for 20 -40 years. it's like, a retirement fund! good idea? bad idea? -Colt

 

Hmmm ok? I got friends running in the 11s and 12s all day long, and have yet to see anyone I know pull the front wheels off the ground, Especially saying that the 2nd gen isnt too light....But hey If you wanna beleive him go ahead

 

id say retore the oldy to original.. you said you knew where the motor was and put the shiny motor in ur newer chickken

 

figures, The old curse of the mechanic. Decide to fix-up one car, end up with another. oh well. I wonder what a 78' would look like with a blower sticking up out of the hood. Oh, oddly, the hood on the 78' has 2 long scoops on it. funtional too. And I thought that the dual exhaust tips exited vertiaclly toward the sides of the *** end was pretty cool. Think you can do that with a 3rd gen? -Colt

 

That exhuast is pretty much standard on those cars, And it can be adapted to work on a thirdgen. I've seen a few too man 2nd Gens with blowers sticking out, most look decent, But I think a big blower would look alot better on another car. And the scoops, Why bother, they make so much better stuff specifically for thirdgens...

 

The price of my tranny just rose to $800. But this offer is only good for the next week and then it's gone. Don't delay. Get it while you can.

 

f**k that, I just found a retailer of bop bellhousings for just about every chevy tranny around. so if I WAS gonna install the engine temperarily it would be $300 for it. OR, I've got a freind in spokane with cnc machine access. probably be about $200 to have one made. Go figure. ****, to tell ya the truth, I just wanna get the car on the rode, I'd put a pinto engine in it if I had to and it was cheap enough. -Colt

 

lol the rode??? and a pinot motor id go over there from FL to but a bullet thru the block of that monster...

 

^^^see what alcohol and drugs do to ya kids? ^^^
l l l l l l

 

I think someone should close this post, Its just turning into a rambling about random stuff...

 

don't really see a big deal with shmoozing about stuff. I mean, sure, if this was some sort of official big deal or something I'd agree, but all a post is, is a chat thats not live. And other people seem to be enjoying it.-Colt

 

w00t i agree... lol is that druigs comment about me or you??

 

You of course bob! Although I'm beginning to wonder about a few other people here. I got bored today, and took all the clips, videos, and movies I have downloaded, and made a short 4 1/2 minute video, but am paranoyed about putting it on the net. someone might get pissed. although, they WERE already on the net, and I did credit those who were involved. maybe we can put it on, could someone talk to a moderator about it please??? -Colt

 

lol why do u say im on drugs....... i type fast and dont really care about spelling. i say keep us informed on the project chicken and definelty post up that vid

 

Just a joke bob, don't take it too serious. but as far *** the firebird (or is that "turd" for now?) goes I have alot of resources working with me on this one and a buddy with a nice cjop shop. (just kidding )So when I get what I need, I'll be back on right away with more questions. -Colt (I wonder what the vette's crossfire would look like in here?.....HELL NO! lol)

 

lol i only smoked a couple of times.... i mean.... uh crossfire.... lol thats like putting a TBI in ,lol. i personally dont like the xfire

 

im soon to be putting my 403 in mah car( well starting the ordeal by seeing if it starts in the other car fisrt) PROJECT "BIG *** SMALLBLOCK" HAS BEGUN AS OF THIS WEEKEND!!!

 

LMAO, "big *** small block", "if it runs", I like you already bob. Hope she runs. when I get off my *** and decide to go and by that 78 bird I'll have a 400 smalls too! hehe, I'ma build me a ticket machine! lol, and not the lotto either. -Colt

 

i think ur 400 is a bb but i might be mistaken.. i hope it runs( its freshly rebuilt a couple of yrs ago, the trans too. never been run but 20 mins)....either way im picking it up..

 

sounds good, tell me, are you going to drop it in the car and fire it, or do a test stand run??? -Colt (I reccomend a test stand run personally, I did it with my opel. -Colt

 

A 400 in a 78 Firebird isn't a small block or a big block. It's a Pontiac motor. There are no "big" or "small" those. They all have the same bore spacing, which is the determining factor of "big" or "small" block. They're all kind of big. Alot of cast iron, not much power. Potential for improvement of course, just like the Chevy 350s or 454s of the day; but very very weak in stock form.

Some of those cars might also have come with the 403 Olds. It was confusing to me even at the time to figure out which ones got which motor, so I'll let someone else pick at which ones came with what motor. I'm not interested in any of those anyway. Olds also doesn't have a "big" or "small" block; although, they do have a "normal" and a "short deck" version, and the 403 is the "short deck" kind. About all that means is that all its accessory brackets are different, so if you have a car with one, it's tough to put a 455 in it.