88_Import_Slaye

Every one with a 700R4 should really read this. This is critical and the main reason ppl really hate 700R4's.

The transmission has a "half-life" factor as you can see from the chart below.

Always run the transmission lines through the radiator FIRST, then to a secondary cooler (if needed). If you are not getting 175 all of the time, then you have some problems that need to be fixed. Get a new heat exchanger in your radiator, or a new radiator period. Make sure your lines are not bent or crimped anywhere.

Temperature -> Life
==============
175* -> 100,000 miles
195* -> 50,000 miles
215* -> 25,000 miles
235* -> 12,500 miles
255* -> 6,250 miles
275* -> 3,000 miles
295* -> 1,500 miles
315* -> 750 miles

Above 300*, clutches and seals burn and transmission metals warp and distort.

Put a temp gauge in your pan. There are plenty of kits for installing a drain plug in your pan if you dont have one already. That will be the "coolest" place in your system. Inside of the converter, the fluid can get up to 400 degree's so your cooling system will need to be abel to bring it back down.

Change your fluid (all of it, not just the pan) every 7,000 miles with dextron III fluid. We tell our customers "Buy cheap and change often". dont waste money on expensive fluid, it wont help.

Your transmission fluid temperature should always be a constant 30*-50* cooler than your engine temp. Remember that your water temp gauge for your motor is located at the hotest point on your motor, right before it goes into the radiator, so it gets cooled way down. The heat exchanger for the transmission fluid is located on the outside of the radiator, so it is covered by the now cooled water going back into your motor.

I hope this information helps you. There is another thread you should look at for more 700R4 info: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=124536

IroczInOz

Cool information. Just one question what if run the trans at a lower temp then 175.

88_Import_Slaye

We like to see 160 in our shop, but do not run it cooler than 50 degree's cooler than your motor temp. If you live in a cold place, remove the external cooler until you need it.

IroczInOz

Have to buy a trans temp gauge and install it to know exactly what is happening.

87TAWS6

this is some good info. I'm getting a new tranny soon when i do my stroker engine. I plan on a external Hayden tranny cooler. I'm getting a deeper pan to keep it cooler too. I was gonna put a tranny fluid temp gauge in too just so when i drag i can keep the temp in check.

88_Import_Slaye

When dragging, your running for about 15 seconds, tranny temp isnt an issue. The issue is driving around town/highway.

Be sure to run the cooling lines through your radiator first, then to your cooler.

The Doc

88_Import_Slaye/Dustin:- Thanks for taking the time to post the information and your tips for tranny longevity.

I was wondering, where did you come across the table of transmission temp versus life expectancy, or how did you come to the information to assemble it?

88_Import_Slaye

I worked for Bowtie Overdrives, at the time, it was the best tranny shop there is for 700r4/2004r. However, that chart is a well known chart and can be found on the internet all over. The customers would see that chart as part of the installation guidelines to remind them not to screw around

The Doc

Thanks!

thirdgenrs

iTrader: (1)

my 700r4 in my 90 camaro rs has 180,000 on it and has just started to slip when i get on it. I dont change my fluid every 7000 i just make sure it has some in it. guess its one of those 1 in a million tranmissions.

bigarmzz

what would be a good gauge to use for the transmission?...i've never seen one for the transmission before....

and where would be a good place to mount it?

any recommendations?

thank you

IroczInOz

I have used Dakota Digital gauges. I followed ******* idea and mounted my gauges instead of the ashtray. Cut it out and installed 3 gauges in there and which light up under tinted plexi glass it looks fantastic cause once power is off you hardly see them


www.dakotadigital.com

OdessyII you will find all kinds of gauges including trans temp. I have this gauge installed and it works perfectly. The sender I tapped into the trans pan.

mnymaekr

got a wild question will a 70 r-4 transmission from a 85 camaro berlinetta v-6 fuel injected engine fit a v-8 350 that has a 350 turbo tanny on it now ?

88_Import_Slaye

no, unless you get an adapter for the bellhousing. Plus, you have to get a new crossmember and you will have to shorten your driveshaft around 3 inches (you will actually have to measure).

RTFC

Autometer, VDO, just about anyone that makes gauges. Get one electrical that comes with the sending unit. it can plug into the drivers side port plug on a 700r4 that sits about dead center on the left middle of the trans.
Here's where I stuck mine in the dash.these are things you generally just want to verify every now and then at a stoplight, or tunning purposes, hence why I stuck them over to the passenger side- gives the navigator something to look at.

RTFC

Here's the actual trans temp chart seen in many publications

Derek The Great

hmm, my car has 104k miles and counting, original trans, the fluid has never been changed, doesnt slip or shift hard yet, and bet the fluid runs hotter than 175... whats more is that ive been educated that to change the fluid now would b the equivelent of nailing the coffin for the tranny, as the older fluid is thicker with clutch material and that new fluid would cause it to slip because this thicker material is no longer there...

Apeiron

That might be true if there wasn't a filter in there to trap the worn clutch material.

IROCZ86

Ok a new question about 700 R4 trans. I have a 86 Iroc. It WAS a 305 TPI with a 700 R4. Took that motor out but a Carb Rebuilt 355. Kept the original Trans. Burnt that sucker up real fast. wasnt a Month and it slipped like crazy. ( Wasnt tv Cable Had it adjusted by a transmission place. ) Rebuilt that tranny put it back in. Didnt have any pull this time. Seamed real slow. Didnt want to shift right at all. Took that one out put another one I had in, still stock. Worked great. Shifted nice and firm and had good pull. Went about a month and I burnt 4th real good.

At this point I got pissed and Put in a 350 Turbo and ran faster at the track then I ever did with the 700. Oh and a side note. The one I rebuilt put in and didnt shift right, I sold that to a guy who put in a 305 Carb car ( not alot of power) and it worked better in his car than it ever did in mine.

Whats the deal here??? Do you have to put money into them to get them to handle any power or Am I just really unlucky with Transmissions????

Apeiron

Pretty much. That's true of just about anything, really.

88_Import_Slaye

Could have been a bunch of things, prob your TV cable, just because someone from a "shop" adjusted it doesnt mean it's correct. Do you have stock TB or aftermarket? that would change the TV cable setup, also, if they didnt put in a new TV spring when they rebuilt it, then that is certianly your problem. Springs dont get longer over time, the get shorter, this would definatley cause low pressures and clutch slippage. 700R4's are real nice, you just have to find someone who REALLY knows about them. Tons of shops will throw then together, but never really do it correctly, or if they do, they dont know how to set them up. You should have gotten a pressure gauge and checked the pressures. If you dont have instant pressure movment on even a slight tv cable tug, then you tranny isnt setup right.

Put it this way, would you trust your motor to someone who adjusts the timing by feel or intuition, or someone with a damn timing light? Same thing applys here, if they dont use a pressure gauge then they are doing it wrong. If YOU dont get a pressure gauge on there, you are asking to empty your wallet for no reason.

A stock series 3 700R4 will handle around 350hp/tq, a reasoably built on will handle up to 450-500 and a well built one can handle up to 650-700. There is a company in norther cali that claims they build theirs to handle 1000hp+, but who knows.

I'm confident my 700R4 will last many years, i know it was built right and I know how to take care of it.

Pressures are what matters, the TV cable controlls the pressures.

IROCZ86

Sorry but I tend to disagree. No I dont have a Throttle Body. I,m Carbed. And yes the Trans was Pressure set at a certified 700 R4 nut who races's them all the time. Like 7, 8 second 1/4 mile times if you know what I mean.

And no I DONT USE a timing light. If you set my engine at 36 degrees at 3000 RPM it misses like a *****. yes I use a light to SEE what degree it is set at but by no means does the light dictate where I set it. You see at one time I thought maybe I should have someone WHO KNOWS WHAT THERE DOING set my timing with a Good light and maybe It would run better times. This was not the case. With me I can Feel if a Car is missing just by putting my hand on the hood. now I,m no genius by any means but I just think that All motors are not alike. Mine just seams to be picky about where the timing is set on certain days. Some days it needs to be set back and some days it needs to be set ahead. basically my car has a mind of its own. That and I beat the Living crap out of it most of the time.


Sorry if it seams like I got a little POed there.

P.S I just pulled the cover off My turbo 350 and I have metal shavings in the bottom. just to give you an Idea how hard I run this Car.

88_Import_Slaye

what carb? if it isnt stock, you need to get a correction kit for it tvmadeez.com has what you need. I run a 1406 edelbrock, I have a kit because i need it. After market carbs where NOT built with 700R4/2004R tranies in mind, so the relationship between the tv plunger and the cable is going to be wrong by far. Even a little bit off will destroy a tranny. It's a sad fact of owning one of these trannies but it's how it goes.

My analogy of the timing light was mean to be seen like so: if you know your car has to be set at 22 degree's to run correctly, you are going to use a timing light (or some other appropriate tool) correct? Well, your tranny needs the pressures to be set at certian points during various gears/rpm's, etc. If you dont use a pressure gauge then how do you know? By feel only isnt right.

Now, if your shop supposidly knows what they are doing then you have OTHER problems, you might be over heating your fluid, your converter might not be locking up in 4th like it should, or you cooling system isnt adiquate, you might need a new heat exchanger. Your tranny fluid temp (in the pan) should be 30-50 degrees COOLER than your engine temp at all times or it is not correct.

IROCZ86

Ok, I dont mean to Argue with you. Or sound like it. I,m learning a that is what this site it for.

Yes I realize that 700's wernt made with Carb motors in Mind. Thats why I had the Correct Bracket for My Carb to mount the Tv Cable. Bought it brand new from Jegs. After I got that the Cable was Pressure set.

I do agree that it most likely is a Cooling broblem. Its not the Heat exchanger b/c its a new Stock Radiator. Its just NOT BIG ENOUGH. Now dont get me wrong I,m not putting out major Horsepower or anything. I just run hard for long periods of time. I also like to shift sorta weird. I,ll let it get up to 2500 RPM if first gear at a slow role and then Mash the Gas, take it to red line and shift to Second( yes I know thats not good on the Tranny But dam its Fun).

I think what I,m going to do to match my Driving style is just buy a TCI street Fighter 350 turbo with the warranty and beat the crap out of that for awhile. I also could use a 2500 stahl convertor too. But hey all that Takes Money. And Money isnt what I have right now.

Hell the Motor isnt even in the car right now. Sitting on a stand in the garage getting new Cam and Lifters, and a fresh repaint. Hopefully she will be back on the road bofore winter comes and Doomes her to the shed.

Nate86

I think your transmissions just keep messing up because you are abusing them.

88_Import_Slaye

well said

IROCZ86

Then whats the fun in having the car in the first place.

greggbruce

iTrader: (1)

I put a 406 in my 87 350 formula, did the trans myself, it ran 12.20 through the mufflers with the stock 3.27 rear gear on street tires. I ran the SNOT out of that car, sold it to a friend and he really ran the snot out of it, and the trans is still working to this day. I have built 700's for 502 motors and nitrous setups, supercharged, ect. the gears are physically bigger than turbo 350's OR turbo 400's. my next project is a 454 in an 85 monte carlo with a 700, and 4.30 rear end gears. I used to be a turbo 350 guy, but since I've built into the hundreds of these trannys, I like the overdrive, you can run better rear end gears, and 700's have steeper 1st gear (better out of the hole).

just my 2 cents....

oh yeah, that chart is pretty accurate----use an external cooler, especially with a stall converter.

the TV cable setting is VERY touchy
and irocz86: yes, you were unlucky with those trannys, sorry it didn't work out. do you miss overdrive??

IROCZ86

The only time I miss overdrive is when guys with 5 spds or one more gear then me pass me after about a mile during a street Race. At the track Its no problem. And thats were I do most of my racing anyway. To get more top speed out of the car I think we will try widening 2nd and 3rd gear a little bit when I have it rebuilt.

Yes I know alot of guys that run 700's and dont have any problems. I just dont have very good luck with hot rods at the moment. My car is in the side yard with the front end sticking up in the air. ( no Motor ) Fudged up the cam about two months ago. (NO MORE CRANE CAMS!!!!!)

Anyway thats another story. Going Lunati next time.

Later guys.

ZZ4 86 Z28

iTrader: (1)

hey, im replacing my trans this weekend and i was wondering if i should do anything about my tv cable or spring. also its getting into the 30s/40s here. should i install the trans cooler or not. i have a 2500 stall going in with it.

ZZ4 86 Z28

iTrader: (1)

also the trans has a pretty much stock rebuild from gm goodwrnech. i am thinking of installing a transgo shift kit. should i do this to help with the new motor (zzz/zz1), or will it still not be enough, or will it help at all, etc. also, the trans is from a 90 car and mine is an 86, can you help me out swapping my speedo gears? thanks a lot.

Lex87

Umm, my car has 200,000 miles on it, and I haven't owned it that long. Since I don't know what type of maintenance was performed on the car, is there something you suggest doing to the transmission before I start driving it daily. Especilly since it would be cheaper to fix a small problem now, then fixing a large problem down the line.........

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Tranny cooler- always a good thing. The higher the stall converter you’re running the more important it is because there will be more slip which = more heat.

Transgo- usually a good thing. I think that most of the people that have problems with them are either not following the directions or putting it in a messed up tranny to start with. Like I mentioned before, I have gotten away with dropping a transgo into a tranny with some worn out frictions and gotten some extra life out of it.

200,000miles… well if it’s an original tranny I wouldn’t be surprised if it goes out any time if you do any racing. The best thing that you can do is regular fluid/filter changes, but if there is an extreme amount of sludge in the bottom of the pan then don’t clean that out and get ready for a tranny rebuild (if there is a lot of gunk and you clean it out before refilling it’s not uncommon not to make it around the block before the tranny fails)

greggbruce

iTrader: (1)

pretty much what he said...

I don't need the transgo kits, I know what to drill and leave out, ect.,
but you CAN tighten the TV cable just a click or 3 and that will delay and firm up the shifts, as long as it doesn't re-self-adjust when you mash the pedal to the metal.
I have found that if you set the cable by turning the throttle shaft with your hand, it pulls the center out farther than if you just mash the gas pedal. SO, if you set the cable just a couple of clicks tighter, it won't pop back if you keep your hand off the throttle linkage....

SO, set the cable all the way tight, work the linkage to WOT by hand, then hold down the adjustment lock with a finger or screwdriver and slide the center of the cable back towards the firewall about 1/8" or so, and go drive and see if you like the way it shifts.

email or call me if you have questions:
gregg642@swbell.net
785-594-4088

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

Slayer what're your feelings on shift kits in the 700's? Everyone I know who installed a shift kit ended up blowing check ***** through the seperator plate and scrapped there trans. I've been strongly debating going away from the 700's because of the conflicting information on what works and what doesn't; I've had 2 of them go out on me and the one in my car now built my Aamco is the WORST SHIFTING ONE SO FAR! It has good clutches, vette servo, and a shift kit and it's seriously junk I'm betting when I get it apart there are check ***** blased through that plate. People who are knowledgable on the 700's should start a thread that contains what they've found to work for them, what the line pressure should be, where to get a gauge etc. etc. I know I'd love to see that.

greggbruce

iTrader: (1)

I've seen WAY more 4L60E checkballs stuck in seperator plates than I have 700's. So far, I haven't had any 700's come back with checkballs stuck or blown through the plate.
Sorry your trans is sucking, I'm not a fan of AAMCO though, kinda' like the McDonalds of trans places, but they're one of the most expensive, like certified transmission. Have you tried adjusting your TV cable?

I do my own version of the B&M shift improver kit, but don't change the pressure regulator spring. I find that splits the input drum where the input shaft presses into it due to the higher pressures. (know that from personal experience on my '87 406 formula) .....there IS such a thing as TOO MUCH pressure, and TOO HARD of a shift.

the way I understood it from GM trans school, ALL v-8 camaro and firebirds from 87 up already have the same size servo as the vette. Recently, I've experimented with NOT changing the servo in other models, and have not experienced a reduction in shift quality. what controls the shift is the accumulator piston and springs, and the accumulator valves. changing the servo only gives a larger area for fluid to press against to hold the band on (2nd and 4th gear) and also acts as the 3rd accumulator.

as many trannys as I have done, I probably haven't used the pressure gague on maybe 1% of them. it's not a thing I use to tune one, mostly because it's a pain in the *** to change the spring, especially in the car, and just changing ONLY the pressure doesn't change much of the operating conditions of the trans.
but here's a rough idea of the pressures I've seen.

60-90 psi of hot line pressure at idle in gear.
part to mid throttle normal driving maybe up to 100-175 psi dependeng on throttle position and TV cable setting,
reverse WOT and manual low runs up to 270 psi
I just use the GM specs for pressures.
I bought my pressure gague from a tool truck, but you might be able to get one from clark tool, harbor freight, or northern tool.com

88_Import_Slaye

With ANY built tranny, those pressures are useless. Unless you pull trannies out of junk yards and put em into your car, you have been extremely lucky thus far.

You guys can do whatever you want, I do what I'm supposed to, and I dont have any problems. Apparently greggbruce has been lucky with his 700's which is rare, not many people get lucky with them. But, just remember

Not all builders are the same, 99% of them know jack **** about these trannies. They clean the valve bodies, add a shift kit and a servo and call it a performance tranny. BS.

Nothing wrong with Transgo parts, but it's best to use them on a fresh tranny, it might make a small difference with an old one. You cant ressurect an abused tranny with shift kits. You need a fresh build.

All shift kits do is increase the pressures. The servo's are similar, but the "vette" servos which really mean "aftermarket" servos have a bit more surface area.

Stay away from aamco. Stay away from any "general" tranny shop. Do research first.

You get what you pay for.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

Yeah I called Aamco about the trans and the first thing they say is "make sure your vaccum modulator's hooked up" I gave up on them that second. The trans acts like it works fine until you get it up to about 4000rpm then it feels like it just loses line pressure and slips into the next gear. I've adjusted the TV cable properly and even tightened it 2 notches and it helps part throttle shifts but doesn't remedy the problem. Something's leaking inside the trans and I don't really care I'm going to get another core built. Slayer what exactly do you do that "works" if you're new to building 700's and you look around everyone has a recipe for the 700r4 and they all seem different. Also 2 of the trannys I've seen with the blown checkballs WERE 4L60E's, the other 2 were regular 700 and the checkballs weren't through the plate in 1 intance, it was just stuck into the plate where it wouldn't move. I'm going to start a thread in the driveline section about what works and what people have seen blow out, it should be interesting. Thanks for the responses everyone.

88_Import_Slaye

what works, is going to people who specialize in these trannies. Read my posts above to see waht I recommend for "works". I admit, I'v never built a tranny, and I've only seen one built once, but working with these trannies for 3 years straight, installing them, working with customers who have installed them and doing custom installs into some crazy setups, I know how to keep em alive. Correct TV and Instant pressure rise are absolute critical, get a pressure gauge and make sure you are getting proper pressures. If your tranny is built, I would take the recommeded GM pressures and compare. You should get above what they say in each gear. How much more depends on what has been done to the tranny. For exmple, at idle for my tranny, it should be between 90-100 psi. My valve body has been modified for higher pressures.

After you get it running, you should check to see if you get all the functions out of the tranny such as

Downshifts
2-1, 3-2,3-1,4-3,4-2,4-1

12SecondTA

i am about to install my tranny temp gage and i have a few questions.

was wondering about my ability to use dual sending units.

I am installing my setup inline from the tranny cooler, to get the most accurate reading as possible.

I want to install a sending unit before the cooler, and after the cooler. Which a switchable relay for the guage, at the flip of a switch i can see one sensors reading, and the others. This way i can keep taps of the effiecency of my cooling system at all times...

sound like a good idea or a waste of time?

already have gauge and sending units, just need to find the relay neccessary...

Apeiron

You don't need a relay, just a switch.

12SecondTA

sound like a decent idea tho?

Apeiron

I don't know... all you really care about is the temperature after the cooler.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

All I really care about is the temprature inside of the trans, I always just mounted the sending units in the trans case or the pan. When I initially installed my TH350 it would run at 200 degrees! I installed 2 small trans coolers (coolers from 4.0 Jeep vehicles) and now it runs up to around 170 after runs and will drop to 150 between passes.

mdricken

So does this chart work the other way? My tranny is slipping at about 10k miles... does that mean it runs about 240?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Really, that chart has been around for years and years and years, and has nothing to do with current transmissions or tranny fluids. _I think_ it was originally about tranny fluid life and not actual transmission life also. Doesn’t matter, it does make the correct general point, that if you get it too hot you’ll shorten it’s life quickly, but the opposite also holds true, too cool will hurt it also.

jimdutro

iTrader: (1)

Is there any reason I should not install a trans temp sender in a line pressure tap (drivers side) on a 700r4? I realize the pan is the easiest install but just wanted to know if it would work well or not. Also, what type of sealer is ok to use on automatics? Ex., bolt threads, gasketsThanks, Jim

nelapse

iTrader: (17)

Define.... too cold? My transmission has never been hotter than 150*

jimdutro

iTrader: (1)

Help ! I am trying to figure out what size the cooling line fittings are where they fasten to the radiator, `88 Camaro, 700r4 and so far can not find info on the size. I would like to find the size so I can order the correct -an fittings for a trans cooler.

Apeiron

5/16" Inverted Flare. Use Aeroquip P/N FCM-2111 to convert to -6 AN.