Ok. So I have downloaded TunerPro and I have logged some data with WinALDL. I save the log table, blm table, spark table and the others. So now what???

 

Tune as necessary.



How does it run?.
What at the moments your not happy with it, what did the data logs show.
What were the 0-60 times or however your measuring for performance show?.

Once your happy with the drivibility they you can see how your performance was impacted, and then work on fine tuning the WOT stuff.

When you get the drivibility and WOT pretty well dialed in then you can work on MPG, cold starts, and get picky about tayloring the tune to match your driving.

Then you can rethink everything you've done, based upon new info., things you learned, and start all over, if you want to get things even better. At times it kinda seems like just a continual Work In Progress.

 

Thanks for answering Grumpy. I appreciate your expertise.

But we are really at the basics here. What and how do I open the file in TunerPro? I looked over the TrunerPro help files and it was not much help.

 

What files are you trying to open in Tuner-Pro? If it's your winaldl files you can't do it. Now if you have Tuner-Pro RT you can data log with it as weas program your chip.

Steve

 

Ok. TunerPro is not for reading Winaldl data. Then what is it for?

 

Keep in mind that as far as this stuff goes, I am in Kindergarten learning 1+2=3 and I feel like everyone it talking trig.

And I think I speak for a lot of people.

 

Tuner Pro is used to edit BINs. BINs are files that contain the information that is in your chip. You must first load the appropriate ECM definition file before you load your Bin. In the Prom tuning article on this site there is a table that shows which definitions you should use. For example, an 89 TPI would use the $6E definition file while an 87 TPI would use the $32B definition file.

Today was the first time i've burnt my own chips so if i'm incorrect someone pleae correct me.

 

So what is the definition file for a '92 RS TBI with an 8746 ECU?

And where would I find it?

 

Ok.

I loaded an ecu file and loaded it in TunerPro. What would be my next move.

I have logs that I down loaded from WinALDL. What part will they play in the equation?

 

I guess step one would be to familiarize yourself with the tuning software. Second thing you could try is editing some of the constants. After that maybe edit the VE tables to get the BLMs in line. I wouldnt try alot untill you get a feel for how it works. Also make sure you have the latest ECU file available so that there are few to no errors in the file itself. If there are errors then youll write your changes to the wrong location of the prom or you may even edit the wrong stuff entirely. Its easy to make stupid mistakes when making an ECU file. I know the one I made for my ecm had some errors in it, even my TDF that I paid money for had a few small errors in it.

 

Well I found JPrevost ecu file and loaded it up and was playing with it. I changed the fuel cut off speed to 250mph. (I assume this is the infamous speed limiter that everyone once to get rid of.) I saved it and called it "test1.ecu"

The VE tables, what do they do?

The current condition I have is I have a stumble at idle that may be from running to rich at idle. BLM's at idle are in the 90's. If I under stand correctly that is pretty rich. How would I go about changing that?

 

Just as a double check, have you read the stickies?.
If not then read thur them several times.

When you edit and change a .bin file you want to save them as .bin files.

You have to be able to use a scan tool.
Understand what it's telling you.
Be able to edit a .bin file.
Then be able to burn a chip, with said modified .bin file.

Reading thur the stickies will fill in alot of the blanks.

 

You probally have but did you read Traxion Intro to Prom Burning, If not read it, Copy it to Word Pad, and Print it, and review untill it all makes sense. it is here https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/promintro.shtml

There is also a lot of info to be learned form http://diy-efi.org

Like Bruce's Programming 101 which you will find here http://diy-efi.org/gmecm/papers/

Also Here is a Link to Abbreviations http://diy-efi.org/gmecm/faq/biglist.txt Print This For further Refference

also Check the main page tech articles and read up on the basic mods like Setting TPS, cleaning your IAC and make sure that the car has a good tune, Mechanical Problems just make the Prom Tunning harder.

Just my .02

 

Guys, I have read the sticky's and the other articles. Several times. And I am still struggling with this.

So once I change something in an ecu file I save it as a bin file. Then what do I do with the bin file.

And I still don't see where the datalogging comes into play.

 

Ok, start from the problem you stated (stumble from possible rich condition)
Make a datalog of the car running in the area of the stumble. Make a few logs from idle to 2000-2500 rpm, just drive around and stay out of the throttle.
Look at the logs where you are showing rich or lean conditions and make notes as to where the problem "cells" are and get the avg "correction" or BLM value that is being indicated for that RPM vs MAP reading.
readins <128 = removing fuel, >128 = adding fuel
To find out how "Much" correction is needed, take the value from your log and divide it by 128 (optimum center, no correction)
Write that number down.
Open TunerPro and load your bin file.
Find the Lower VE table and open the edit window.
Find the "cell" that corresponds to the one you noted earlier from your log.
Take the original number from your bin table and multiply it by the answer you just got/wrote down and enter that value into the table in place of the original value.
Recalculate the checksum and save your bin under a new filename.
BURN and install.

Then...
Do the same thing again and again until you get the correction to a minimum.
When there is no correction the numbers will remain at 128.

That is what I am doing now, There are other "automated" ways using software to correct the tables but I want to do it manually to see what is happening and get the feel of it.
I'm just learning to fish also and I hope this helps you to put your worm on the hook.

 

Starting to me some sense.

 

I understand the loading the bin file part. What about the ecu file. Once I load that and select the ecu file, do I ever have to change or load that again as long as I am working with the same car and same computer?

I'm thinking no.

 

It will reload each time you open TunerPro.
Just make sure the settings are correct to recalculate checksum.
I've done some bonehead burns just to get limp mode for a bad checksum

make sure you read this one again,
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=39254

I read it at least every couple of days at first to keep me focused.
the other sticies up there are loaded with stuff.

 

Well when I want to close TunerPro it asks me if I want to recalculate the check sum and I click on yes. I was under the assumption that was all I needed.

 

That's a good thing. (hail to Mark!) :hail:
Anytime you make a change, you will NEED to have it recalculated or it will set an error when installed in the car.
JP

 

Good to see your catching on!!! Your going to find some pretty big gains if your BLM's are in the 90's. Your heading over the first hump in prom burning and it will be pretty smooth sailing from here. I say pretty smooth becuase once you learn one thing you want to learn about something bigger, badder and more complicated and you get confused all over again. I'm addicted to that little ruitine.

So far you figured out that WINALDL is a scanner that tells you what your car is doing while it's running. Here are some tips for useing it.

First off the blm tables have a neat little feature at the bottom that changes what "range" of data that is displayed. If you cycle through it you'll see that there are various wide and narrow ranges. I suggest the WIDE AVG untill you get your blm's close then you might try the NARROW AVG. The narrow avg just throws out any outlying data points while the wide shows them all. Like stated above lower than 128 means your rich, higher means your lean.
You won't have use of the INT and O2 tables till later. The spark knock table is good to keep an eye on but don't worry about a few stray knock counts. Just make sure your not getting a trend of counts in one area.

The othe screen you might want to spend some time on is the engine data screen (i think thats what it's called) it has basically every sensor on it and what it's doing at that particular point in time. Some things to look at are your IAC counts this is the position of the IAC valve. You'll notice that once you get your blmls back in the ball park these counts will drop because your engine will need less air to idle. Also you can double check your gauges here too. You'll find your TEMP gage as well as your tack in your dash are probably going to be off a good bit.

Now your armed with the knowledge of what your car is doing. So lets dive into the .bin editor. Tuner Pro is just that it edits your bin file or whats on your chip. You need 2 things to do this with. First you need a map that tells tuner pro where all the various constants and tables are located on your chip. Thats the ECU file. Then you need a bin file. Preferably the one thats in your car. You can down load it with your burner, or find it in one of the download sections at moates.net. Sounds like you got all that figure out already, just wanted to clarify.

Before you dive in and start yanking fuel out of your VE curves lets decide why your car is stinking rich. What mods have you made? Did you crank up the fuel pressure? Is the car globally rich, just more so at idle? There are different ways to go about getting every thing back in line. If you have blm's in the 90's which is really bad, think of it as being 25% or more off, then you might want to make a big change to your "BPWegroff" constant. Think of this as your injector size and engine size all rolled up into one number. If you changed your fuel pressure then you basically made your injectors bigger and didn't tell the ecm, this is where you tell the ecm. Just go down in numbers to remove fuel and up to increase. This is a global change, meaning that your adding or taking away fuel every where. This is good for getting in the ball park before you tune your VE curves.

Once your ready to tune your VE curves then all you do is add or subtract fuel by adding or subtracting numbers from your VE curve. Now here's another little quirk to be aware of. There are 2 VE curves a 2d and a 3d one. The 3d one goes to 3200 rpm and covers all MAP ranges. The 2d one goes from 0 to 6200 and is added to the first table. Basically the reason for this is that once your over 3200 rpm your probably going to be WOT or at least under a pretty heavy load so the ecm is just going to use the last entry from the 3D table and add in fuel from the second table. If you look at the 2d table you'll notice that it adds in a fixed amount of fuel up to 3200 rpms then goes up slightly then back down. Your VE should max at your peak torque, the peak you see is where your peak torque should be. This is kinda hard to explain but don't worry it'll make sense once you start playing with it.

Once you get your blm's close +or- 3or 4 seems to be a happy place for most people then you can play with other things like pump shot....aka accell enrich tps and accel enrich map. As well as a thousand other parameters. Just start with some small stuff and move up. Your going to get lost don't worry about it. You'll notice that once you start asking specific questions your'll get some specific answers. Sorry this is so long but I figured it was a good place to throw in a summary of chip burning as I see it. Feel free to correct me where I missed or stated something wrong and deffienetly feel free to add anything. I have a feeling alot of the TBI guys who feel that chip tuning is over their heads are watching.

 

Thanks Monte.

Thats alot of good info. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

BTW

I am running very rich seems like only at idle. curently my BPW constant is 135.

What does it do?

 

Thats the base pulse width constant. Its based off of the engines displacement and the injector flow rate, among other things. I havnt looked at teh specifics but basically it makes teh fuel calculations in terms of time so that once all the calcs are done the result is a pulse width that can be outputted to the injector drivers.

As for calculating it, the Tuner CATS definition help gives this

"BPW Constant

Cylinder volume and injector flow rate are combined in this calibration value. A typical value for a 5.7 liter V8 is 135.

Cylinder volume is 5.7/8 or 0.7125L

Injector flow rate is 7.48 grams/sec, (61.22#/hr/injector)

Using the formula BPW = 1461.5 x (cyl vol / inj flow rate )

= 1461.5 x (0.7125/ 7.71 )

= 135

This constant should be changed if injector size or cylinder volume is changed."

If you havnt changed your injectors or your motor, then dont touch it. I think 135 is the stock value.

 

Injector flow rate is 7.48 grams/sec, (61.22#/hr/injector)

I am needing to change my bpw also. How do you convert from #/hr to grams/sec on the injector flow?

 

one can also factor into the calc the fuel pressure. if you run stock FP as i do at 13 lbs (TB) it is a non factor. if you run higher than stock then maybe you need to add in the FP in your calc.

 

Yes, correction for pressure changes are a good idea. Same thing if a VacAFPR is used.

 

I like to think of it as the BIG ****. Good way to make big changes every where. You better off if you set it to what your injectors and displacement actually are but some times that just isn't feasable. The problem you run into is basiacally running out of room in your VE table. You can't have values over 100%, if you get in the 90's just turn down your BPW, and retune your VE.

 

So if it is supposed to be set at 135 for a 5.7, then what shoud it be for a 305?

 

If you use the formula posted above you'll get 117, thats a 305 with 64 pph 350 injectors, if you still have the stock 305 injectors it's whatevers still in the chip. I used to remember all the conversions between metric and english off the top of my head but I've been out of school for 2 months and it all got flushed out for the summer.

 

I have to get the bin off my chip and see what it is set at.

 

I too am learning this stuff for the first time . I learned ALOT out of this post . WTG