Ok, I am rebuilding a non cc qjet I found at the junkyard. The kit I got is a Niehoff, which comes with new gaskets, and a few other things. Like 2 rivots and a couple of small rubber rings. Now, I have no idea what the rivots are for, but worse than that, I have no idea wtf these rubber rings are for. There's also a metal washer, a small plastic tube, and a really small metal tube about a 1/4" long with a slit down the side. Now I think one of these rubber rings is a spacer for the pump. I think it's supposed to sit on the piston, on top of the retainer that holds the spring in place on the top of the pump. As for the rest of the stuff, I'm lost.. any ideas? The damn instructions only have cleaning procedures and an exploded diagram.

 

As you start taking it apart, you should be able to match up any parts in the kit you're not sure about with the parts that you take off. The rivets are probably for the choke housing, and the small tube sounds like a replacement roll-pin for the accelerator pump lever.

 

Ah, yes, I think you're right. Thanks. Hopefully I wont need them for the choke housing though. I will have to go take a closer look after it's done soaking. As for the other stuff, I'm not sure. So far I havent seen anything that quite matches up yet, but it's probably just because I'm not looking hard enough. It's really the plastic thing that really has me confused. I'm sure I will figure it out..

Oh, and the metering rods for the secondaries that it came with have CH on them, and then hanger has a K.

Hmm. Will these be decent for my engine, do you think?

edit: nevermind. I can see after a bit more searching that the ch rods are crap, even for my 305. So.. What should I look for then? Oh, and as far as the K hanger is concerned, should I be looking for something like a E or an F?

 

oh, just so you know, those Niehoff kits cover a q-jet made over 30 years, so they throw every part you could ever need in it. Ie. you get something like 6 gaskets and need 3... (pay attention to the "tabs" on the inside of your primary venturi's of the old gasket, that's the one you want...)
In other words, don't plan on using all of the parts you find.

Keep in mind a few though:
clearish white nylon washer : fuel inlet
tiny metal washer, roughly 3/16" ID (fits nicely over your accelerator pump eh?) and green washer (cross section is "C"), both go over your accelerator pump.... Watch the order of the ones that came off your carb to know on the new one.

Also if you leave that carb for a while before putting it back togethe (ie a week or so, like I did), little things are no longer fresh in your mind... Either take a mess of pictures for us to help, or write EVERYTHING down. One example was the connection on the pivot side of the float, or the power piston to gasket (remember gasket is BELOW power piston....), and the metal ring gasket below the needle/seat..... These are a few of the things that i've screwed up (along with putting a cc-qjet float in a non style, doesn't work....), so they are things to keep in mind....

As for rods/jets.... Boy, thats a tough one to guess, I used the stock ones from the cutlass it came off of, I put in DR rods later, and can't tell the difference really.... Usually the stock 305 ones will be fine, getting more fuel with no mods on an LG4 will just give you crappy mileage... (sorry, a t-stat isn't a performance mod. ..)

But hey, I sent you those articles a long time ago right? There is one that shows how to tune your primaries, then your secondaries, ie. blocking your secondaries, then acceleration tests using only primaries, to isolate them, then once they are good, mess with the secondaries... You can try that....
*Tip in case you didn't know*: All primary rods have the same power tip size (with a few exceptions of course), so when they pull out of the jet, they have the same blocking size, so primary rod sizing has NO effect after the jets pull out (lower vacuum, high throttle...)
Correct me if i'm wrong here, anyone else....


Anyway, best way to learn is to try and figure it out. Also, if you decide on a certain hanger that you need, I probably have it, or can make it, I can use the mill at work to drill a hole within .001" of the reference line.....

 

Wow. Well I have everything laid out in the order it came off. Dont remember the order of the gaskets on the pump though. I'll have to check on one at the JY when I scrounge for rods. I at least want a slightly better hanger and secondary rods. I am sure the primaries are fine. But remember that thing you said about how because the one I got was rebuilt it might have been messed with? Well I think so. From my research those rods just look too crappy to have been stock, but hey, I could be wrong. I guess I can try it like this and go from there.

I also read all of the articles. Helpful, yes, but it would be nice if there were illustrations. It's just a little confusing to me what everything is. And because I have never done this before, I sometimes have a hard time visualizing what the articles are saying.

And I know the engine is pretty much stock. But it's not quite, and I know the stock tuning can usually leave some room for improvement. I'm not going to go stick something in there that's meant for a 350 or anything, just something a little better.

Oh and for the love of *** I need to figure out the float. Thank *** for those exploded views. I think I will pick up a book on this though..

 

Doug Roe's book leaves a little to be desired... No diagrams really, it's more for someone who already knows how the q-jet works basically, and now needs more info on how to mod it, and how some of the parts function....

A good way to set your float: put the needle on it, and the pivot pin, then turn the carb upside down, while holding the pivot point only. Then using the 4 hands you have ( ) measure distance from far edge of float to top of float bowl... Then adjust and recheck.... They say to push down lightly, but that's so hard to quantify....

You say you looked up the rods and they sound crappy, care to post primary rods and jets? Your secondaries are CH and K? I think that's 305 stock, that's what I had on my carb from the JY...
My primaries are 72 jets I think, and 43 rods.... (.030 difference is the norm generally...), and yea, stock is crappy, get used to it....
*did you recurve your dist yet? That's a good one ya know...*

 

Havent done the dist yet. I meant to a while ago, but forgot. I'll probably do that as soon as I replaced my radiator. The thing sorta, uh, well whenever I put fluid in it now I get three constant streams of water coming from the core. Even when cold.

Dont know about the primaries.. I actually couldnt tell exactly what was what in there. There were four things that I am thinking could be metering rods or something, that were attached to the air horn and went down into the float part of the carb, just in front of the secondaries. And then there were the other 2 needle-like rods near the front. I think those are the primary metering rods, but couldnt see any numbers on them. Are these the things that get sucked down or pushed up, to mess with the mixture at cruise and WOT?

 

The primary rods are the two long skinny needles haning down in front the bowl area.

When you recurve the distributor, don't forget to shim the end play out.

 

I'll remember. Thanks for the heads up.

Ok, the primaries are 43K. For the metering rods.. now to see if I can figure the jets out..

Bit of a problem with the accelerator pump. When I first took the air horn off it came out, so I dont know the order that the gaskets and stuff go back on. I'll look at the diagram..

edit: Ok now that it's all clean in there, and I have proper light, and can see what the hell I'm doing, the primary jets are 73.

Now, again, I need to figure out what I should use for best all around.

edit again: Ok. It's all back together, and looks good. I will hopefully be able to get it on the car tomorrow, then I will see how it runs and secide if I want to change any jets or metering rods or hangers. I'm not sure of the way I checked the float, but we will see how it runs...

One thing I dont understand though. Never did. Exactly what causes the secondaries to open? I mean the covers on the air horn.. I see that vacuum diaphram closes them up, but what opens them? Also, where the vacuum diaphram connects to the linkage that leads to the secondaries, there is an adjustment screw that seems to have no purpose at all. What the heck is THAT for?

 

haha, what a shocker on the rods/jets same as mine (virtually...)


ok, secondaries:
hold the complete carb up in the air, turn the linkage (throttle), look at the underside, watch the primaries open, turn linkage all the way, only primaries...
now on the side of the choke, towards the bottom/back you'll see a rod pointing towards the choke (can give a pic if needed), that's your secondary lockout, hold that out of the way, and turn the throttle linkage again, watching the underside, now you see the secondary "butterflies" opening as well....
After you car is warm, ie. off choke, that lockout rod won't be in the way, and you can open the secondaries, once you reach 3/4 throttle say...

Now, the covers on the air horn, are the secondary Air valve (aka A/V), those are opened by vacuum, once your car actually needs to flow more air then the choke valve can offer, the secondary air valve opens. You'll notice a rod on the passenger side of the carb (choke side), going forward to that vacuum can. That rod will prevent the secondary air valve from opening when there is high vacuum. ie. when you tromp the gas and vacuum drops (under load, don't think it'll work if you do it while leaning over it, so just trust me...), the arm connection on that vacuum can starts to slide outwards, towards the back of the carb (vacuum holds it "in"), and as that slides out, then the air flow can "pull" the secondary air valve open, which is connected via a linkage to your secondary rods, pulling them out of the secondary jets, allowing more fuel through the secondaries..... *breath!!!!*


And that's the story of the q-jet.


oh, finally, that screw on your vacuum break/vacuum can/whatever you want to call it: That ONLY (someone can verify this...) controls how far the choke air valve opens after first starting, and effects cold idle ONLY. If you "tighten" the screw, (I think), when you first start the car, the vacuum can see vacuum, and pulls in the linkage that holds the rod, the screw pushes on another linkage, which pulls open the choke air valve.... best way to adjust this is.... NOT TO MESS WITH IT!!! however, if you're like me, you've turned the screw out, and forgot how it was.... when you reassemble the carb, the choke air valve should be closed, push the linkage in (you'll feel you're pushing air through it, it'll have resistance..), and push it in all the way, and you'll notice it'll pull the choke air valve open a TAD.... (1/8"-3/16" drill bit should fit in, barely...) There is a "spec" on your rebuild kit, it's an angle measurement, but the drillbit spec is easier and will get you in the ballpark.... Fine tuning is done by:
start car in cold morning with hood up, aircleaner off, quickly run to carb, make sure choke valve cracks open, if car stalls, adjust in or out, try again.....



Holy cow, I think I have carpal tunnel, you better appreciate this

 

I do, thank you. I figured out on my own what the secondary lockout was.. And I could only guess at how the air valves opened... Well it seems like I am on the right track. So tomorrow or Tuesday I will try to get it on the car and see how it works. Then I will start fine tuning from there. And I've got the jets and metering rods from my current carb, too. So I could possibly switch some of those and see what happens. Otherwise I may just go yoink a bunch from the JY and see what combo works best for me. Hopefully I wont have to re-rebuild it more than once or twice. I'm getting tired of taking the air horn off already.

 

Oh, also, what should I do upon installation? Does it need to be primed somehow, or just turn the key and crank it for a minute?

 

Just turn the key. It will crank longer than normal.

 

Ok. Just to clarify what I was talking about before...




Most pointless screw ever?

 

no, I explained that...

 

yeah, like I said, just making sure.

 

oh, if that's the way your carb looks normally... do you have any cold starting issues?
just looking at your thermostat being turned that far cw...

 

Dont know yet. Havent installed the carb. How SHOULD it be turned? I just put it on so the hole at the end of the coil went over the thing on the inside..

 

yea, put the loop in the thermostat (the black piece that came off) over the prong that sticks out of the housing, then turn it to the spec. I totally forget, but I know five7kid had a good way to do it, rather than the one in the sheet you have...
I think it was like hold the fast idle cam down, rotate the t-stat back and forth making sure it'll move the choke flap, then rotate it until the flap just barely closes. Then tighten your 3 screws down.... That'll get you in the baseline, that is basically such that as you start the car, the wound metal strip heats up from the current in the wire (and naturally from the engine heat, but that's slower...), and releases tension, allowing the flap to "flop" open... So if you put too much tension in it, the car will need to be much hotter before you get off "choke", if too loose, much cooler... Another thing that is probably best put "in the ballpark" then adjusted over a few days of cold starting....
-J

*last tip, if you have the t-stat housing straight up, ie the wire connection is parallel with the ground, then turn the housing ~20*CW, that should be somewhere close. you have yours looking around 80*....*

 

Ok, thanks. I will take care of that. DOnt have a garage, so I have to wait to try it until the rain stops..

 

Ok. The carb is on. The engine runs. The choke is fuxx0red, but hopefully I can get that sorted out pretty fast. Now I have to figure out what happened to all my low end torque....

 

yea, mess with the t-stat, turn it, and the little screw on your choke pulloff, and the high idle screw until it starts up cold ok. Then hopefully your warm starting is still good (mine leaves something to be desired...)
Then you can get into the low end grunt loss.

 

It starts up terribly now. I got some help from five7kid on adjusting it, but it was still messed up. There might be something else wrong in there, around the secondary lockout linkage. Warm, it starts fine though.

My big problem is shifting. It powers right through to redline, but then when it shifts it bogs for a second, then picks up. It's really annoying to be pushed back in the seat, and then lose all forward acceleration and have your face slammed into the steering wheel...

 

As per that PM, here is how the need should attach to the float.....