I have a convertible and i was wondering if the front seats all had the shoulder retracting unit (this ear kinda thing which holds the belt) ????

Mine donīt have them… also the seats show no sign that they were there at some time….. could it be possible that it has something to do with the
RPOs: YR1 SEAT, FNT CUSTOM
YS1 SEAT, RR CUSTOM

Thanks for any help !!!

- Alex


------------------
1988 Camaro IROC-Z Convertible
305 TPI with A4 Tran.
2:73 Posi Gears

Pics Of My Car
http://<a href="https://www.thirdgen...ideid=1094</a>

 

Convertibles don't use the seat belt guides because the retracting units are located on the 1/4 panels rather than the roof.

 

well thats the same thing I figured but I saw many vertīs that had them and also if you look at the picture of the vertī in the ī88 showroom brochure you see that it has those ears on it.... whys that ?

------------------
1988 Camaro IROC-Z Convertible
305 TPI with A4 Tran.
2:73 Posi Gears

 

The reason you'll see them is that its very easy to change seats, and the only cars that don't have the seat belt guides are convertibles. So if the person replaces their original seats with junkyard seats they either have holes in the headrest or use the guides.

Also since the convertibles were converted its possible that earlier years had them. Willie should be able to address when they changed over to not having them. If the changeover year was 88, its very likely that the car pictured in the brochure is carrying earlier hardware, or that its an 87 with only the "new for 88" pieces installed. Case in point, there's a promotional picture of an 88 Iroc convertible that clearly has the flares extending to the tops of the doors and the smaller chmsl, both were changed by 88.

 

That's interresting, because I thought ASC received complete cars, except for the missing t-tops and hatch. I didn't realize that GM did in fact outfit unique products onto the t-top cars. Or did ASC buy new head rests and replace them?

------------------

The IROC Homepage
<A HREF="http://www.rit.edu/~jli4307/camaro" TARGET=_blank>
View the restoration of an 85 IROC</A>
Custom Thirdgen Subwoofer Enclosures
"I didn't know a bored out Ford could go so slow" -Shenandoah

 

Your guess is as good as mine Jim. I'd assume that GM just saved the trouble of drilling the holes in the headrests for convertibles. We know the convertibles were shipped to ASC with panels covering the ttop holes and the rear hatch opening, the seat belt guide issue was probably just a matter of skipping one step.

 

Let me throw in what I know.

1987
I know for fact that 1987 convertibles did not have front seat shoulder belt guides.

Also, it has one-year only side spoiler with door "extensions". It is also the only year for the 9-inch third brake light (with two bulbs). Although the 13-inch, five-bulb lamp assembly found on later year convertibles and coupes was termed the "second design" for 1987, they were never installed because of super low production -- never ran out of the "first" design.

1988
Although the pic of the white 1988 IROC-Z in GM literature does not have the guides, all 1988 convertibles I've seen have them.

What's interesting is the 1987 one-year only side spoiler design with door "extensions" were also used on early production 1988 convertibles.

All 1988 - 1992 convertibles shared the same third brake light, also used on coupes from 1987 thru 1990.


Because early production 1988 convertibles did use the 1987 style side spoiler design with door extnesions, I can't help but wonder if the shoulder belt guides were not used on these earlier production 1988 convertibles. Do you have the spoiler extensions on the doors? Also, what is the last six digits in your VIN?

------------------
Willie

Supercharged 1987 305 IROC-Z, Daily-Driver, Emissions-Legal.
Former Paxton (6-psig) with 50-hp nitrous: 12.043 @ 112.86 mph.
ATI D1SC (10-psig): 12.056 @ 116.62 mph.
All stats are altitude corrected for 3,100 feet using NHRA's Altitude Correction Table.

http://willie.camaro-firebird.org/

1987 "20th Anniversary Commemorative Edition" Z28 Convertible -- Super Chevy Show Class Winner, 1998.

 

Hey Willie,

Well Iīm sorry but Iīm not sure what you mean with spoiler extensions on the doors, I think I might have them but Iīm not sure…. Maybe this pic can help you to tell if I do….. https://www.thirdgen.org/rides/rideimages/ACF7gDiR1.JPG

Here is my VIN 1G1FP31F6JL158488….
As far as I know my car was built in june ī88

Another weird thing is that my car has no ASC decal on it…. I have all the GM factory sticks inside the doors but no ASC decal, how is that possible ???

I donīt know, but maybe my RPOs can provide so info on this….

AC3 : ADJUSTER, FRT ST, POWER, 6 WAY, BKT,
AG9 : ADJUSTER, SEAT, POWER, 6 WAY
AR9 : SEAT, FRT BKT, EUROPEAN STYLE,
AU3 : LOCK CONTROL, SIDE DR, ELEC
A01 : WINDOW, TINTED, ALL SHADED, W/S
A31 : WINDOW, POWER OPERATED, SIDE
B18 : ORNAMENTATION, INTR, DELUX
B34 : COVERING, FRT FLOOR MATS CARPETED
B35 : COVERING, REAR, FLOOR MATS CARPETED
B60 : DECAL PACKAGE, 01
B84 : ORNAMENTATION, EXTR MLDG, B0DY SIDE
B91 : ORNAMENTATION,EXTR MLDG DR EDGE GUARD,
CD4 : WIPER SYSTEM WINDSHIELD, PULSE
C60 : HVAC SYSTEM, AIR CONDITIONER
DG7 : MIRROR 0/S, LH & RH, REM CONT, ELEC, PAINTED
D34 : MIRROR, VISOR VANITY
D6E : GEAR, SPEEDO DRIVEN
D88 : DECAL, STRIPE, SPORT
E5Z : SPEEDOMETER ADAPTER (DELETE)
E9Z : SPEEDOMETER KEY (DELETE)
FE2 : SUSPENSION SYSTEM, RIDE HANDLING
GU2 : AXLE REAR, 2.73 RATIO
G80 : AXLE POSITRACTION, LIMITED SLIP
J50 : BRAKE SYSTEM, POWER
KA1 : HEATER SEAT
K34 : CRUISE CONTROL, AUT0MATIC, ELECTRONIC
K68 : GENERATOR,105 AMP
LB9 : ENGINE, GAS, 8 CYL, 5.0L, TPI, HO
MD8 : TRANSMISSION, AUTO 4 SPD, THM 700 R4
MXO : MERCHANDISED, TRANS, AUTO PROVISIONS, O/D
NA5 : EMISSION SYSTEM, FEDERAL, TIER O
NP5 : STEERING WHEEL, LEATHER WRAPPED
N33 : STEERING COLUMN, TILT TYPE
N65 : WHEEL & TIRE,SPARE, SPACE SAVER, STEEL
N96 : WHEEL, 16 X 8, CAST ALUMINUM
PB4 : LOCK CONTROL, WHEEL
QDZ : TIRE ALL, P245/50VR16/N BL R/PE ST TL
TR9 : LAMP, GROUP
TT4 : HEADLAMPS, HALOGEN, 4
T93 : LAMP, TAIL & STOP, SPECIAL
T96 : LAMP, FOG
UA1 : BATTERY, HEAVY DUTY
UQ1 : RADIO PROVISIONS, FOR STEREO
UX1 : RADIO, AM/FM STEREO CASSETTE EQUALIZER
U25 : LAMP, INTR, RR COMPT, COURTESY
U29 : LAMP, INTR I/P, COURTESY
U75 : ANTENNA, POWER, RADIO
U74 : ANTENNA, RADIO ----DELETE
VAN : ASSEMBLY PLANT, VAN NUYS, CA
VK3 : LICENSE PLATE, FRT MOUNTING PKG
V73 : ANTENNA, FIXED
WW6 : APPEARANCE PACKAGE, AERO #6
W62 : ORNAMENTATION, AERO PACKAGE
YR1 : SEAT,FRT CUSTOM
YS1 : SEAT,RR CUST
YT1 : BUILD UP DR & QTR
Z28 : MERCHANDISED PKG, SPECIAL PERFORMANCE
Z08 : MODEL CONVERSION, CONVERTIBLE
1SC : PACKAGE, OPTION 03
19C : TRIM COMBINATION, CLOTH, BLACK (C) (91)
19I : INTERIOR TRIM, BLACK (I) (91)
199 : SEAT BELT COLOR, BLACK (91)
6ZX : SPRING, COMPUTER SELECTED, FRONT, LEFT HAND
7ZX : SPRING, COMPUTER SELECTED, FRONT, RIGHT HAND
74Q : MOLDING COLOR, FLAME RED MET (91)
74U : PRIMARY COLOR, EXTERIOR, VICTORY RED (91)
8NM : SPRING, COMPUTER SELECTED, REAR, LEFT HAND
88A : STRIPE COLOR, ACCENT, TWO TONE, GOLD/BLACK (91)
9NM : SPRING, COMPUTER SELECTED, REAR, RIGHT HAND


- Alex


------------------
1988 Camaro IROC-Z Convertible
305 TPI with A4 Tran.
2:73 Posi Gears

[This message has been edited by 88IrocConvertible (edited November 28, 2001).]

 

Well Iīm sorry but Iīm not sure what you mean with spoiler extensions on the doors, I think I might have them but Iīm not sure....

Alex,

It's understandable why you're not sure what I mean.... I checked out your pic and you don't have them. Here's my 1987 Z28 Convertible with the extensions:

<IMG SRC ="http://wsphotofews.excite.com/023/dd/bd/4P/Sq32654.jpg">

Look real close just above the door handle and you'll see it.

Here is my VIN 1G1FP31F6JL158488….
As far as I know my car was built in june ī88

So yours is not an early production '88. That's why you don't have the extensions. Because of this, I'm going to take a stand and say that your car originally had shoulder guides. I'm basing this on other '88 ragtops I've personally seen and all have them. Therefore, my conclusion is only an opinion and NOT based on any official reference.

Another weird thing is that my car has no ASC decal on it…. I have all the GM factory sticks inside the doors but no ASC decal, how is that possible ???

Based on the sixth digit of your VIN, your car was converted by ASC and is considered an original convertible. Therefore, it once had an ASC sticker on it. For some unknown reason, it was removed. Speculation: The sticker is placed on an uneven part of the door. This causes the sticker to lift off in the center area and gradually tear off. Maybe this happened at the previous owner just scraped the entire sticker off.

I donīt know, but maybe my RPOs can provide so info on this....

I examined the RPO's and they do not provide any clue.

Willie

[This message has been edited by Willie (edited November 28, 2001).]

 

Willie,

Thanks for all the info you could provide me ! …. As for the shoulder guides, Iīm almost 100% sure that they were never there…. there are no signs of anything being removed from the headrests (like holes where they could have been mounted) ….. maybe the previous owner had changed both of the headrests for some strange reason (which I strongly doubt)….. could it be possible that GM just forgot to mount them or maybe they were specially ordered at the dealership without them ?

------------------
1988 Camaro IROC-Z Convertible
305 TPI with A4 Tran.
2:73 Posi Gears

 

As for the shoulder guides, Iīm almost 100% sure that they were never there.... could it be possible that GM just forgot to mount them?

Yes, it's possible but not probable. In this specific case, all Camaros (coupes and convertibles) had them. Therefore, I have to conclude that even though it's remotely possible, it's highly unlikely.

or maybe they were specially ordered at the dealership without them ?

This is definitely not possible. When specially ordering a Camaro (I've done this back in the 80's), there is no provision for "additional comments/notes/requests". Because guides were not an option, it would have been impossible to specially order a car without them.

Unfortunately, it would be impossible to know whether your headrests have been replaced. Another point to consider is that the upholstery might have been replaced on the headrests. Speculation (again): The previous owner thought the guides looked "cheesy". He removed them and because he didn't like the holes left in the upholstery, he had them redone. Again, there is no way to determine whether this has been done.

Suggestion: Remove the upholstery and examine the wood inside for screw holes that's used to attach the guides. Because all 1988-92 Camaros had guides, there should be holes. I would say that if yours do not have the holes, your car never had the guides... and leave it at that. That's because the only cars that do not have the holes would be 1987 convertibles and there were only 1,007 of those made (very rare). Personally, the lack of holes would be enough evidence for me to say your car never had them as opposed to your headrests coming from a junkyard 1987 convertible. (Did you notice in my pic that I don't have them either?)

Willie

 

Willie, have you ever pulled your upholstery to see if your headrests don't have the holes? If the holes are machined (as opposed to created with self-tapping screws) I would think that even under the upholstery the holes might be there.

------------------

The IROC Homepage
<A HREF="http://www.rit.edu/~jli4307/camaro" TARGET=_blank>
View the restoration of an 85 IROC</A>
Custom Thirdgen Subwoofer Enclosures
"I didn't know a bored out Ford could go so slow" -Shenandoah

 

"That's because the only cars that do not have the holes would be 1987 convertibles and there were only 1,007 of those made (very rare)."

Willie,

Are you saying that the only convertibles that didn't get the seat belt guides were the 87's? Cause thats what I'm gathering, but this is incorrect. My 91RS convertible obviously has never had them either. It doesn't make much sense for the convertibles to use them due to the design of the seatbelt assembly.

[This message has been edited by Drew (edited November 29, 2001).]

 

Drew,

I agree with you that the design of the convertible seatbelt assembly really doesnīt require the guides but why are they on some of the verts and others donīt have them....

As for my seats, I called up the previous owner who is a friend of mine...he is the one that bought it new in ī88 and he said that the car never had the guides and that the headrests were the originals...

... so, were all the verts that came without the guides just forgotten by GM ?... I mean, is there a possibility that they forgot to mount them on Drews and mine ?


------------------
1988 Camaro IROC-Z Convertible
305 TPI with A4 Tran.
2:73 Posi Gears

 

Willie, have you ever pulled your upholstery to see if your headrests don't have the holes?

Yes, I have. I had mine recovered because they were faded. Mine do not have holes.

If the holes are machined (as opposed to created with self-tapping screws) I would think that even under the upholstery the holes might be there.

The holes aren't machined. They are made by self-threading screws.

Willie

 

Willie,

Are you saying that the only convertibles that didn't get the seat belt guides were the 87's?

My information seems to indicate this, but as I stated above, it is only an observation. No reference I have states one way or another.

Cause thats what I'm gathering, but this is incorrect. My 91RS convertible obviously has never had them either.

The debate rages on!! I'd love to see posts from other convertible owners. Let's take an informal survey of this. I have personally seen four 1988 convertibles (Sport Coupes and IROC-Zs) and all had the guides. I've owned three 1987 Z28 convertibles and none had them.

Willie

 

Mine does not have them (an 89), and my interior is original. My aunt in GA had a 92 and hers did not have them either, and I have a picture of her car new from the dealer.

 

My personal computer isn't on the internet right now, and I don't have any pictures of my convertible here that show the seats... I looked yesterday and the only pics of my convertible that are online are with the top and windows up. Kinda funny considering I seldom have the top up unless its in the garage. I'd like to see what other people say about their cars, would be nice to know.

 

No ears on my 92. Considering the condition of the factory leather i'd have to say that the original owner did not recover any part of it. I am only the second owner of mine.

 

While I don't own a convert, the seats I just installed in my '88 IROC were out of an '88 IROC convert, and they don't have the ears or the holes for them either.

 

My '89 IROC-Z vert doesnt have guides and when the seats were recovered, there were no holes underneath the headrests.

------------------
1989 IROC-Z Convertible
305 TBI / 5-speed
Few mods
No times yet

My Thirdgen homepage:
members.v3space.com/thirdgen/index.htm

 

They were never mounted on my 90 'vert. I've always been curious if there were any parts differences between the convertibles converted by ASC in Livonia, MI vs. ASC in City of Industry, CA. Has anyone ever compared same moel year cars for diffences between failities?

------------------
90 RS Convertible
Owner: Top-Down Solutions
(626)369-0040

http://www.sc3gfb.org/members/lonsal.html
http://www.taskerinc.com/gs3/profiles/Lon_profile.htm

[This message has been edited by lonsal (edited December 01, 2001).]

 

No ears on my seats. (89)

------------------
1989 rs ragtop LO3 KB subframes & edelbrock towerbrace to hold it together. edelbrock 3" cat back system.

 

NOPE! my firebird vert doesn't have them either belt retracts into the 1/4 panel




------------------
1991 ASC firebird convertible
-305 V8 tbi
-700-r4 W/ slp shift kit
-k&n open element
-Cherrybomb exhaust
-HP motorsports STB
-McEwen white face guages
-Alpine sound
-Ground zero springs
-KYB shocks/struts
-16" diamond spoke wheels
-245-50-16 Gforce tires

 

Neither does mine.

 

Neither my 92Z28 nor my 89 RS have the ears. The ear would make it more difficult to get the seat belt on and block access to the rear seat more than it already is.

------------------
Rob P
89RSconvtZZ4TPI Edelbrock Intake
SLP Dual Cold Air Intake 1 5/8" Headers Semi-Siamesed Runners, IROC
suspension, alum shaft. Numerous mods.
92Z28convt5spd (stock)
71Impala convt 402BB
BETTER DRIVING THRU SUPERIOR HORSEPOWER!

 

I've done a little research on this subject and everything I've found supports my original reply that no convertibles used the seat belt guides. My best guess is that the only convertibles that had the guides would be cars that were converted by ASC after leaving the dealerships. I was able to find multiple pictures of Camaro convertibles, enough that I was able to see at least 2 of every year from 87-92. All of these are GM promotional pictures that were reprinted in various reference books. I didn't see a single Camaro with seat belt guides on the front seats. Its fairly easy to piece together a simple reason for this. GM used build sheets for the interior, usually these are the sheets found on the bottom of the front seats between the foam and the springs. These sheets have the VIN numbers on them as well as the various interior information. Its not a stretch to imagine that there was some kind of system using these sheets to tell which seats were going into convertibles so that the step of installing seat belt guides could be prevented. Just one possibility. I would imagine that with cars that were sent to be converted by owners that they'd use the guides since ASC would be left with unsightly holes without the guides on a car that originally had them.


------------------
Drew
predatorman@hotmail.com
83 Camaro 5.0L *1995-98*
87 Iroc 5.7L
91 Formula 5.7L 14.3@98mph
91 RS Convertible 5.0L
91 Firebird 3.1L 17.00@82mph *Gtech*
92 S10 2.8L
98 Grand Am GT 3100
Parts for sale