ANDYZ28

Here are the answers to the MOST asked questions on the 1LE brake package.

But first,read this old post; https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=58276

With the increasing popularity of the 1LE front brake upgrade, it has become obvious that good information and pictures is essential for this conversion to be performed SAFELY. I have developed the "ANDYZ28 1LE Plus CD" to help many people with this conversion. It is also a valuable tool to help decide if this conversion is right for you. http://www.3rdgensolutions.com/1leupdate.html


This alone should have answered most questions.It may prevent the same questions from being asked, and answered all over again.

1)Can I use the front calipers,or caliper carriers from a 1994-2001 Mustang Cobra? NO!
Only the brake pads themselves can be used.
1a)Can I use Vette calipers? NO! The opening in the Vette calipers is not wide enough to fit over the 1LE rotor. The Vette uses a much narrower rotor. Check out this old post for more info:
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=78112

2)Do I need to get a different proportioning valve? YES. The 1982-1989 (1st design) cars will need GM part# 14089496. The 1989 (late 1989 2nd design)to 1992 cars will need GM part# 10136840 (which is now 10164112). The 89-92 cars with 4WD brakes should already have the correct proportioning valve. After you have done your 1LE front brake upgrade, a quick test drive will verify this.

3)Do I need to get a different master cylinder? NO! The stock disc/drum (J50) master cylinder is used.

4)Can I still get the caliper carriers from GM? NO! They are all long gone.
But they are available from Spohn Performance; http://www.spohn.net/index.cfm?fusea...t&productid=99

5)Can I modify my spindles? Or do I need to get NEW ones? You can modify your own spindles if you want to. All of the information required to modify your own spindles is contained on my CD.

6)Are the brake line fittings/threads the same for all 3rd gen cars? Or do I need to get different (special) brake lines.In 1984 GM made a change to the brake line fittings. Exactly when this change took place is unclear. But it appears to have been in 1984 mid year. So get the special brake lines from "Earls". I wish I had!

7)I want to put "Belltech" drop spindles on my car. Can I still install the 1LE front brake upgrade? NO! Not with GM or GM "type" parts. You must use a special bracket to rotate the caliper 20 degrees or so to the rear and away from the strut. This is the only way to obtain the clearance required. Here is a link to photo of the Baer Brakes Beltech set up;http://home.san.rr.com/iroc/Baer/f-inside2.JPG

8) I want to put the 1LE type brakes on all four wheels. What is the easiest way to do this? Get a disc rear from a 1989-1992 3rd gen car. You cannot install GM 1LE type rear disc brakes on a GM drum brake rear. The axles are different. Or go aftermarket, Baer,etc. Or if you wish to convers your current drum brake rear to the big '90-'92 brakes I have information (on my CD)and parts to perform this common conversion

9)Can I use 15" wheels with the 1LE front brake package? YES! But you will need a 16" spare tire from a 4th gen car.
Here is the link to pictures of my "wheel fit testing":https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/003033.html
9a) I have installed the 1LE front brake package on my car, I had a flat tire and foung out that my spare tire wil not fit ofer the calipers? What can I do about this?
You need a special N64 option spare tire.

10)Do I really need 1LE brakes on my daily driver? YES you do! The stock brakes suck.

I will post new questions as they come up.


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82Z 305 w/comp 270 magnum cam,Edelbrock Performer RPM,Holly 1850-4,serpentine belt drive.TH700R4 w/B&M holeshot 2000 converter,& megashifter.1LE front brakes, 9bolt 3.27 w/1LE rear brakes.Aluminum driveshaft,boxed rear susp.poly everything,IROC swaybar+wonderbar. 70mph@2200rpm ASE Master Tech plus L2
also recently obtained a
'69 chevelle SS396 w/Turbo 400,3.31 posi,11.0 to 1, headers,etc. Latest project car,'86 IROC stock 305TPI hit on left side,but not too bad

[This message has been edited by ANDYZ28 (edited December 10, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by ANDYZ28 (edited December 12, 2001).]

Jza

hehe. I like that last one.

gravitar

Great message.. I learned some things despite my attempts to keep on the 1LE threads that have been popping up here.

I think this would be a great thing to link to as a "banner" like the one on the PROM burning forum. Maybe a moderator could do that here?

Omega

iTrader: (1)

Can you go into more detail as to why the drop spindles will not work with the 1LE brakes? Is it that the spindles don't have the material that the stock ones have and therefore are weak? Whats the deal?

LimaBravoNiner

Andy,

Here's a question that was kinda asked in your MAQ link and nobody really had an answer that I could find.

Q: If you have factory 89-92 4WD, do you need to change the master cylinder & prop valve or are the correct parts already there?

All of the 1LE front conversions that I've found documented on the board have been on pre-89 cars.

Thanks.

------------------
1989 Formula
G92 w/Hardtop
White/Grey

blak92!

YOU CAN USE (modified) BELLTECH DROP SPINDLES WITH 1LE FRONT BRAKES!! The modification to the stock spindles (cutting the ears and tapping the splash shield holes) ALSO applies to the Belltech drop spindles. check out Baer Brakes, they sell the drop spindles modified. I did the mod to my spindles (sent them to baer).

------------------
Hybrid Black 5.7L 5 Speed
'95 Competition Yellow Corvette Coupe ZF6

ANDYZ28

blak92!

I will have to see pictures of this to believe it. The reason is that with a Belltech 2inch drop spindle, the larger 1LE caliper would now occupy the same area as the strut. Belltech themselves told me the same. So photos please.

Eightyninef

are you saying the OE spare tire won't fit on a front 1LE brake setup?

ANDYZ28

That's right! The steel 15" space saver spare,donut or inflateable. Will not fit the 1LE brake package. You will need a 16" spare. Or the aluminum or steel N64 option type spare.

blak92!

Check out pg.36 http://www.baer.com/catalog/racer_20_web.pdf

baer will also do the mod. Check the board archives too.

check this thread:
https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/001349.html

check out this picture from Omar, baer front brakes with (modified) bell tech drop spindles:
http://home.san.rr.com/iroc/Baer/f-inside2.JPG

Sorry I wasnt clear earlier, this is important:
Brackets to mount the calipers cradles are $75 a piece from Baer or you can have them do the mod and mount the anchor brackets and sell you the caliper cradles instead.

When I redo my brakes I will see what the fitment issue is exactly with my old guldstrand anchor cradle moutning brackets (never tried fitment on the drop spindles, still bolted to the old spindles) and take pictures too.

------------------
Hybrid Black 5.7L 5 Speed
'95 Competition Yellow Corvette Coupe ZF6

ANDYZ28

I stand by what I said in question #7. The Bell tech 2" drop spindles will NOT accept the 1LE brake package and Baer themselves told me so. The picture that you refer to dpes not contain any GM 1LE parts. It is a custom setup from Baer. The adaper bracket is very much different than the 1LE bracket. I have attemted to attach the 1LE front brake package to a Belltech 2" drop srindle. I could not get it to work at all with stock 1LE parts.

I am sure that Baer can "make-it-fit", after all that is their business. But the stock parts will not fit. Not to mention the fact that I can still use my 15" wheels on my 1LE setup.

Thanx,ANDYZ28

b91z28

I was wondering the same thing. I have a '91 Z28 that already has the 1LE spec rear brakes. I too have looked and failed to find the answer. Anyone?

------------------
'91 Camaro Z28 5.7L

ANDYZ28

I tried to answer this question by editing question #2. I added the 89-92 info. But I will state it again here.

If you have an 89-92 with disc/drum, or 4 wheel disc brakes. Then you should already have the correct master cyl and proporioning valve.

LimaBravoNiner

Thank you sir!

------------------
1989 Formula
305 TPI/5-speed
White/Grey

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

I beg to differ on this one. There is a tech article on this site on how to put disc brakes on a drum brake rear. And my dad has done it on two different rear ends now. I never thought it was possible, but it is.

ANDYZ28

Kevin91Z
Moderator


I do feel it is easier to swap to a '89-'92 disc rear than to convert a drum rear. I am under the impression that the axles in the drum brake rears are different. Or at least they look that way to me.

Omega

iTrader: (1)

Andy,

Only the backing plate is different. It is nothing a hacksaw and a drill bit won't fix. I have a drum rear with the disc backing plates mounted on it sitting in my basement. It also is missing a few ebrake cable clip holes, but again not a big deal. I admit it is easier to swap the whole rear, but if you have just installed new gears, posi, bearings and such, then it becomes more appealing.

ANDYZ28

I am under the impression that the rotors do not fit properly onto the drum axles. As a result the rotor is not centered in the caliper. Some shims that are discontinued by GM are required.

But you are right about the investment angle. I am going to swap a '92 disc rear into my '86 IROCZ bacause it is the easiest way FOR ME to get the big rear brakes and posi to.

Thanx for your input. It's guys like you that make this board so informative and interesting.

ANDYZ28

Omega

iTrader: (1)

Andy,

I am always stating what i know, and am up for new ideas or issues without attacking the poster. If there is a problem i want to know what it is and i figure out if there is a way around it.

You are correct in that the backing plate does need to be centered and the shims are not available anymore. The centering problem i will sove by making a spacer ring, drilling the holes and then removing it. The shims can be made from brass sheets available at a local hobby shop.

The axles are different also, that can be fixed by going to a local machine shop or anyone with a lathe and have them turn it down a little... or a little time with a dremel

I appreciate all the info on the drop spindle/1LE isssues. I would have found out the hard way that they don't fit... yet

ANDYZ28

U go dude! This info helps a ton of people avoid the pifalls we all dread.

espirocz

iTrader: (2)

Looking for pics of 1LE setup to use for planning my brake project? Anyone?
Thanks!

ANDYZ28

Check out this old post (locked at 103):

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=58276

If I recall their are plenty of pictures in there.

Thanx,ANDYZ28

breathment

then where CAN i get them???

ANDYZ28

We (Steve and I) are working on solving that problem. Some info on this should be available in May 2002. Keep your eyes on this board for any further info on this.

PLEASE, PLEASE don't deluge Steve with emails or phone calls about this. When they are available you will know as soon as we do.

Thanx,ANDYZ28

breathment

cool! you guys are awsome.

ChevyLuva3

Tru, stock normal brakes suck @ss, I have to brake so much earlier to where I need to stop. And its even worse wit my loose seat, I kinda shift forward under hard braking. What make 1le brakes so much better tho??

Omega

iTrader: (1)

The 1LE brakes are better because of the rotor size and calipers. The front calipers have 2 pistons instead of 1 giving it more braking force with the same line pressure. The bigger rotors offer better leverage at the calipers. The rears have a MUCH improved ebrake setup, as well as the larger rotors.

ANDYZ28

Omega is 100% correct. 4 12" rotors make a dramatic difference.

Omega

iTrader: (1)

I heard that there was an issue with the axles being different between the drum and disc rears. Well, according to my 89 and 84 drum axles, they are a direct replacement.

ploegi

Hey Guys. I see lots of information for the 89 and newer, but, what about us guys with 88's and older? Couple questions...

Is it possible to put the 4th gen rear brakes on a 88 disc rear axle? Is this the same process as for the 89 and newer? (yes, I have seen the tech article, have spare rear end, and need to change mine anyway, it howls pretty loud on the freeway)

What years of fourth gens have the desired brake set up? (largest rotor size)

Will this require either the M/C or the PV to be changed? (assuming already has 4WD)


Sorry if this has been answered before, but, the amount of information that comes up on various searches is just astounding. Most relates to the 89 and newer though.......

Thank You very Much, my brakes (and my wife) greatly appreciate it.

ANDYZ28

If I can ask for a little of your patience. I will be answering this question in great detail shortly. The reason that I don't want to give an answer now. Is because I do not want to give only half an answer. I must have it 100% right the first time.

I believe that the patience of yourself and other members will be rewarded in the end.

Whoever it was that recently emailed me about this. I cannot get your mailbox to work. But thanx for refering to me as "Mr. 1LE". But I do not feel I am anywhere near deserving it.

Thanx,ANDYZ28

fb305svs

YES THERE IS DEFINATELY A DIFFERENCE... i went through this looking for axels for a 92 28 spline disc brake rearend. I found a set of drum brake axels, and they were different.

The main difference is that the center hub area on the axel for the drum brakes is not machined. It is for the disc brakes to ensure the rotor is true (not off center, since the holes for the studs ARE bigger than the studs, the rotors need something to line up with)

Also, i heard that the face on the axels is machined for flateness to side to side trueness...

But for 126 bucks a piece, i got some nice aftermarket axels, that are about 25% stronger... ccouldn't go wrong, since gm wanted liek 380 a piece for them!

Steve

Omega

iTrader: (1)

fb305svs:

Both sets of my 26 spline drum alxes are machined. I will double check with the 28 spline axles that are on the car, but i am almost positive that they are machined as well.


Come on Andy we are getting restless... Andy! Andy!... Andy!

ANDYZ28

i'M STILL WORKI'N ON IT.

fb305svs

Well i dunno then... every parts store in the world lists them as being different, and even when i asked the guy at precision gear, he told me it had something to do with the machining of the flange... maybe it was the diameter of the flange that was differen? so it could fit into the disks? i duno... he did tell me there was a diff too, but i forget what it was... i just know it had something to do with the flange, at least ont he 28splin axels.

Steve

87_TA

I have been searching around and can't seem to find the info i
need and am very sorry if this question has been answered.
about a year ago i installed a narrowed 4th gen rear in my car
to get rid of the 9bolt ,well the 4th gen alum. callipers are barely working ?
do i need to use a different or adjustable proportioning valve on my 87 due to the larger fluid capacity of the new callipers .
any help greatly appreciated.


__________________
87 T/A,355 10.5:1,CANFIELD HEADS,ZZ9 CAM,MINI-RAM,SLP 1 3/4, 10 BOLT
3.73'S,FLOMASTER
82 CAMARO,355 9.0:1,DART HEADS POCKET PORTED,PROCHARGED P600
BLOW THROUGH CARB 10LBS,EAGLE RODS,MSD DIST,BOX,SUPER COMPS
1 3/4,CUSTOM Y,FLOMASTER,MOSER 9" W/4.10's, 10.60 @ 128 ON 94 OCT.

ANDYZ28

I suggest replacing the M/C and propotioning valve. I believew that you will want the GM part# 14089496 propotioning valve. That's what I did, and it works fine

87_TA

thanks for the info,not what i was wanting to hear
i guess ill try the pro valve first.
thanks again.

89Iroc-ZL98

OK, I' need some clarification:

Can 1LE brake calip & rotors be installed on a stock (89 Iroc w/ 16" wheels) spindle? You mentioned modifications to the stock spindle, can you add some detail to that?

Thanks.

onebad82z

iTrader: (7)

YES you can reuse your stock '89 spindles with the 1LE setup with minor modifications.You need to cut off the ears for the stock caliper guide and drill and tap out two holes to mount up the 1LE adapter bracket,go to http://www.geocities.com/rgades/1LE.html?985236018930 .This is ANDYZ28 site for the 1LE swap and helped me tremendously when I did my swap,actually just finished up my swap to completion tonight around 9:45 PM,with help from ANDY himself,nice guy.Swap is easy and painless,I highly recommend it if you can get all the parts.

breathment

Ok, is there any way i can use any type of lowering spindle with 1LE brakes? i mean there has to be something that can be done... I really want both!!!:hail:

Omega

iTrader: (1)

breathment:

The verdict is still out on that question at the moment. You can use the drop spindles but they require the same modifications that the stock spindles require in or to fit. Follow ANDYZ28's website. The tentative issue is that the caliper needs to be rotated around a few degrees (about 20) so that they clear the shock. If that is the case you will have to figure out exactly how muuch it needs to be rotated and make a custom adaptor bracket.

Within a few weeks ANDY will have all the questions answered.

ANDYZ28

Currently Baer is the only one that can supply this special bracket as a part of their kit.

Thanx,ANDYZ28

Omega

iTrader: (1)

Andy,

I have been calling BAER many times over the last few weeks. It turns out that their standard systems use the same bracket as the systems with the drop spindles. If you can at some point give me a detailed drawing if the 1LE adaptor bracket i can check it with the BAER bracket i have. Once i know how much the caliper needs to be rotated i can have some brackets made so that people can have their cake and eat it too.

I know how busy Andy is, so if anyone else could do as stated i could get on it asap.

RaGe

Just curious as to the difference with the rear disc vs. rear drum brakes... In other words am I wasting my time upgrading my front brakes to 1LE brakes if I don't upgrade my rear drums at the same time?

Yes cheapness and laziness are both factors!

ANDYZ28

I am working on the rear disc question. Please give me some time and I will have it all sorted out.

omega, opinions please (save me a lot of typing).

breathment

well, i have to save up anyways. so it will be a while before i can afford everything.. take ur time guys:hail: and thanks for the hard work yall are doing

Omega

iTrader: (1)

(AndyZ28 tags Omega so he can enter the ring )

I would not say that you are wasting your time by not upgrading the rear..around 70% of your braking force is burdoned by the front brakes. You will definately benefit from swaping both front and back. There could be the chance of the front brakes doing more work and too much of the braking and the tail end losing traction and locking up. If the front and rear of the car isn't balanced properly it can cause some serious problems.. you just have to know the car and anticipate what could happen. Upgrading to a good set of shoes will help the problem, but eventually i recomend the complete swap.

ws6transam

Some hacker killed the isthq server where my website used to reside. So, I bought a domain name and let Earthlink servers do the work.

My 1LE brake upgrade page is back online! You are the first to know.

HTH,

http://www.ws6transam.org/1LEbrake.html

ANDYZ28

Thanx, Dan. You're a gem.