L98 Z28

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys,

I'm having a fitment problem with my 1LE brake parts. The rotor and pads are from AutoZone. The pads are Performance Friction Carbon Metallic 412Z's. I bought new calipers from Vette Brakes. They are 88-94 non-heavy duty calipers. The problem is when I put the pads in the calipers, there's not enough space between the pads to fit over the rotors.

The rotor is about 1 1/16" thick. The caliper pistons stick out about 5/16" from the back of the caliper, but that's as far in as they will go. There's 2 3/8" from the back of the caliper of the front of the caliper. The metal backing on the pads are 3/16" thick and there's 3/8" of pad material. All this adds up to having 15/16" between the pads, 1/8" too little.

An 1/8" doesn't sound like a lot, but it's enough to stop things from fitting together. Has anyone else use the PF pads? Has anyone had fitment problems like this with any pads? Should I take a belt sander to the pads and knock them down some? Is there some other problem, like a wrong part, going on here?

Thanks.
Joe
92 Z28

ANDYZ28

I can help you. But first let me ask a few questions.

1) Do your calipers look like this? The one on the right is a 1LE caliper. The one on the left is a stock caliper.

2) what is the outside diameter of your 1LE rotors?

3) Did you have to get a new (larger) outer wheel bearing for the rotors to fit?

4) Where did you get the special caliper carrier from?

L98 Z28

iTrader: (1)

Hey Andy,

The answers are:

1. Yes, they are 1LE calipers that look like yours.
2. The rotor is 12" in diameter and about 1 1/16" thick.
3. I have all new wheel bearings from Autozone. I haven't removed any of the old parts yet, so I don't know if they are larger.
4. I need to get the job done, so I paid full price from SSBC for the left side.

Joe

ANDYZ28

I have a set of new rotors here. They measure 1.038" thick.

I have a new loaded caliper here. The dimensions are : Pad steel backing .250" (1/4") friction materiel .340" (11/32) Which adds up to .590" total pad thickness new. The gap that remains for the rotor to fit into ins 1 3/16".

So the opening in my caliper for the pads is 2.400"
less total pad thickness .625"X2= 1.250" sutracted
= remaining 1.115 for the rotor
minus 1.038 rotor thickness

Here are the calculations of the dimensions you posted: 2.375" caliper opening .5625" X2 pads = 1.125" 2.375"
minus 1.125"
equals 1.250"
minus 1.0625 rotor thickness equals .1875" (3/16") clearance.

So the rotor to pad should be 3/16" clearance not 1/8" interference. Something doesn't add up.

L98 Z28

iTrader: (1)

The brake pistons don't press completely into the back of the caliper. The picture you posted looks like there's space between the metal backing of the in-board pad and caliper housing where the pistons stick out. In my calcuations, I indicate they out about 5/16" from the back of the caliper. Take that away from the 3/16" clearance and you get 1/8" interferance. My 2 3/8" measurement is across the caliper housing, and the pistons sticking out make the opening smaller, 2 1/16". Then I put the pads in and end up with 15/16" left for the rotors.

Do you have 2.4" from the pistons to the front of the caliper housing? Do your pistons press in flush with the back of the caliper?

Joe

L98 Z28

iTrader: (1)

Baer's Serious Street setup uses PBR calipers with 0.81" thick rotors. How are these calipers different from the calipers for 1.1" thick rotors? Where were 0.81" thick rotors orignally used? Did Vette's ever have the 0.81" rotors? I thought the C4 Vette Heavy Duty calipers were for 13" rotors and the non-HD calipers were for 12" rotors. Did the Vette's 12" rotor thickness change at some point? If there are two different calipers for the two 12" rotors, how can they be identified?

Joe

ANDYZ28

My measurements of the caliper opening are including the pistons. Also it seems rather odd to me that the pad have 3/16" metal backing and not 1/4" as the stock 1LE pads have?

You say that the rotors measure 1.0625"
my stock 1LE rotor measures 1.0380"
a difference of .0245" which is negligible.

The only explanation is that the calipers are incorrect for the (your) application. I suspect this is the problem because if you were to install my stock 1LE pads (.590") into your calipers the interferance would become nearly 1/4". I say this because your pads are .5625" mine are .590" .

I believe that the rotor is correct, and the caliper is wrong.

L98 Z28

iTrader: (1)

That's what I'm thinking too, Andy. I'll call Vette Brakes tomorrow to see what they say. I had seen on this message board that the non-HD Vette brakes are the ones we want. Seems that may not be the case. I'll post tomorrow with what they tell me.

Thanks for all the info.

Joe

ANDYZ28

I have studied this subject extensivly. To the point that I have become something of an authority on it.

If you go into almost any auto parts store and ask for the 1990 Camaro IROCZ w/special performance option front calipers. You will get the correct ones.

I am very interested in what they say.

L98 Z28

iTrader: (1)

Vette Brakes says the non-HD C4 rotors are 0.97" (31/32") thick. If my measurements are off by 1/32 - quite possible, then the spacing between the pads could be 31/32" instead of 15/16". I called the local Chevy dealer, and all they could tell me was the caliper part numbers are different for the Vette and 1LE, and the 1LE are 3 times the price of the Vette's. The miniumem thickness stamped on the back of my 12" rotor is 25.4mm (1"). I'll try to find a Vette rotor to see what it's minimum thickness is also.

So the lesson here is: DO NOT GET NON-HD VETTE CALIPERS!! They are smaller than 1LE calipers, and they are not interchangeable.

Does this mean that we are stuck with rebuilt units? Does anyone sell new 1LE units at a reasonable price?

Joe

L98 Z28

iTrader: (1)

I've been told the minimum thickness spec for the Vette rotor is 0.965", which does confirm that they are thinner than the 1LE rotors.

The only place I have found new calipers, other than GM, is SSBC. They go for $195 each. All the local parts stores sell remanufactored units with lifetime warranties. Here's their prices for each caliper:

Pep Boys $84 + $50 core
Discount Auto $79 + $50 core
Central Auto $67 + $50 core
NAPA $70 + $44 core
AutoZone $34 + $20 or $35 core (left and right core prices differ)

I'll stop at AutoZone tonight and place an order.

ANDYZ28

Let me take a moment and ask, where the hell the auto supply stores got all of these "remanufactured" calipers?

They can not possibly be from the original 1LE cars. And these calipers only fit 3rdgen 1LE cars. Every single "remanufatured" caliper that I have seen. Has actually been new. Including the 4 that I have.

Thanx,ANDYZ28

TVP

now this is interesting ... I was told by vette brakes , the vette calp was the same ..and by several other people ..not to mention my setup came from another racer ..his calipers had VETTE cnc cut right into them ... and he now runs them on his 4th gen ???
not sure how that works .. 98 and up stuff doesn't use a cradle at all .....sounds like the piston sticks out of the bore a little more on a vette caliper ????

TVP

L98 Z28

iTrader: (1)

I believe Andy had 2.4" from the pistons to the front of the caliper. This would mean from the distance from back face of the caliper to the front would have been around 2.65". I measured 2.375" from the back face to the front, and only 2.0625" from the pistons to the front of the caliper. The pin that came with it was 2 3/4" long, I'd bet Andy's 1LE pin is longer and in decimal format.

I packed the calipers up tonight and noticed the GM part #12520230 on the box. This does seem to correspond to a C4 Vette caliper, so it's probably correct for the Vette.

I wasn't too impressed with Vette Brakes. The guy on the phone didn't seem to know a lot about the brakes. He said they just order, and they don't do anything else. He had to yell to his buddy to get the width of the Vette rotor. That's why I double checked his thickness number against the minimum thickness spec.

I'll try to attach a close up of the caliper with a ruler. You can see the piston sticks out just about 5/16" and the opening is a total of 2 3/8". I'm sure I could grind the pads down some to make things fit, but I'll just get the proper calipers and be done with it. If you try the Vette caliper, then I hope you have better luck than I did. As far as I'm concern, they don't fit and should be avoided.

Joe

L98 Z28

iTrader: (1)

Oops, forgot to address the 98 and up f-bodies. I haven't had the brakes off my 2002 SS, but they sure look like they have a carrier. They have a bar under the calipers, like the 1LE setup. This would imply to me that there's a carrier.

Joe

ANDYZ28

L98 Z28, So let me see if I can get this all worked out "officially". The Baer/Vette front brake set up is NOT interchangeable with stock 1LE parts? I did not know that.

If you are 100% certain about that then I will add it to the "1le guestions?" post.

Thanx,ANDYZ28

L98 Z28

iTrader: (1)

I haven't spoken with Baer. I can tell you that their web page says their Serious Street brake setup is 12" diameter x 0.81" thick with PBR calipers. This is thinner then Vette rotors, and I don't know what PBR calipers they use. My question was about what calipers these were and where they came from. The existance of the PBR calipers for 0.81" rotors indicated that not all PBR calipers were the same. Their web page info is here:

http://www.baer.com/products/sstreet.shtm

Baer's Sport setup says they are 12" x 1.1", and the calipers are PBR-like. The Sports are probably interchangable with the 1LEs.

http://www.baer.com/products/sport.shtm

As far as the Vette calipers, take a look at the picture and tell me if they measure up differently than your 1LE calipers. From what you have posted, I'd say the Vette calipers are smaller than 1LEs. With the pads installed, they certainly wouldn't fit over my 1.1" rotors, though TVP said his friends are using them.

My 1LE's will be here Wednesday, I can give you a comparison then.

Joe

TVP

very interesting ...glad you got here before I did : \ ... back to my original question ... maybe the casting is the same ??? and they have a deeper/wider piston in the vette caliper ??? maybe the
guy rebuilt the vette caliper with a 1LE kit ???? that has smaller/shorter pistons ???

the 4th gen caliper has an aluminum bracket that it floats on , using the mounting pins .... it doesn't slide on it's edges like the 1LE / old style vette caliper does .... and the mounting holes are only .2" off the 1LE holes ...

TVP

L98 Z28

iTrader: (1)

OK, here's the deal. The 1LE's are (drum roll...) 2 11/16" wide from the back face to the front and the pistons take up 5/16" of that. This leaves 2 3/8" for the pads and rotors. They are indeed wider than the Vette calipers by 5/16".

Another difference is the location of where the brake lines connect to it. The Vette's connected to the back, behind the pistons. The 1LE's connect to the end, opposite of the bleeder. I'm attaching a picture showing the width of the 1LE's.

I got 1 new caliper (left side) and 1 very greasy used caliper (shouldn't they clean them as part of the refurb?). The used one has a bleeder valve that doesn't fit well and doesn't have a dust cap. There are larger rubber boots around the pistons instead of the smaller silicon-like stock boots. It a little dinged up also. Hopefully it works better than it looks. The picture is of the new caliper, of course. Also, these calipers didn't include a retainer pin either, the new ones from Vette Brakes did.

So the short answer is that Vette and 1LE calipers are different, and not interchangable. Hope this helps some one else out.

Joe

Apeiron

It sounds like someone at the parts store got mixed up and stuck a core back on the shelf.