I dont know how many of you get the Summit news letter but everyone should check this out! The Govermeny wants to scrap all 1987 and old cars! Just check it out! Summit News

 

I do have an idea on what can be done to partially save your invenstment, IF this legislation goes through.

GET YOUR CARS APPRAISED, pay the money and go with it. If you go this route and this legislation happens to go through, the government is more likely to pay you off for a greater value than if you just have a car. You will have at least some sort of information backing up your claims of how much your car is worth. I had mine appraised for 13K BEFORE my baer brakes and Leather interior. I want to have an appraisal of at least 20K now...

What is interesting is the effect this will have on our economy, think about it, all these people here and on other boards and all around the country with cars that need parts etc. This could damage our economy so bad that it might be irrepariable.

Just remember the Senate is mostly Democrats, I hardly ever hear about the Republicans talking about this type of crap. @#$%^ tree hugging dems...

This is kind of a long shot, but it might be better than nothing.

John

 

you said it john.. it would be terrible for any car hobbiest..just think how expensive car partrs for 3rd gens would be in afew years
Shaun

 

This really bothers me. The fact that I simply cannot afford a vehicle less than 7 years old, now they want to crush all cars older than 15 years? and more I'm 19 years old, how does the government expect me to be able to afford a $20k car? I can't, and there's pretty much no way that a bank would loan me that much money. *shrugs his shoulders. I plan on writing a letter to both of the senators from my state (they're both republicans), so we'll just have to see.

I don't think this would do much good for the economy, you know? If this is the government's idea to end pollution, then they should be kicked squarely in the nuts, and punched in the jaw.

Hey, Mr. Government, don't take our dreams away from us. Yeah, us little guys over here

 

robertg,
to answer your question, the Govt would really like to have government funded programs for mass transportation. we would all use some little card connected to a computer somewhere. This way they could tell where we go and how we get there. they would have compete control...

THAT is how theyt expect you to get around. All these people with personal cars impedes on what they want to know. They have a hard time tracing old cars. The new ones are coming with things like that On-Star. Do NOT believe for a second they could not use that system against you if they wanted to. Remember they make the rules...

John

 

that isn't a government of the people, by the people, and for the people then, is it?


if they want to do the onstar program, then retro-fit the equipment into the old cars! it isn't that hard to do.

EDIT-- A Government mass-transit program sounds good, in theory. But I highly doubt that the American people would go for something like that. We like our old cars.

 

Big brother is watching...

we gotta be careful of some of the moderators before they tell us this is not tech enough... I believe it effects us all, and if we do not get the word out here then some of us would have never found out about it. This is the ONLY board I frequent for cars, so please Moderatos let this live!!!

John

 

I agree.


Guys, please keep this post unlocked, as we need to pass this information out so people can at least try to resist this legislation.

 

D@mn that Fre@kin Government, always up to no good
first emmssions, now this crap!!!

 

I might move to CANADA!

John

 

I'll become a hermit, take my thirdgen with me, and live in solitude.

"F U C K you I won't do what you tell me!" -Rage Aganst The Machine

EDIT-As is stated below, the bill appears to only look for cars that are running. I flew off the handle when I first saw this, plus I was having a crummy day at work. My job market isn't looking too stable (there's no money in dial-up internet access), and we're losing customers to roadrunner so fast that it isn't funny.

Read the bill first, and keep your cars running in tip top form.

 

STOP UR B!TCHIN AND DO SOMETHING. WRITE UR SENATORS AnD ANY GOVT REP! USE THE LETTER OFF OF SUMMIT. I DID IT AND I AM INFORMING ALL THE CAR CLUBS I BELONg TO AACA & ACDMA!
COME ON GUYES
SHAUN

ps remeber that they are elected officalls and no their jobs are on the line if we dont like the bill

 

thank *** im canadian. EH!!!!!

 

So what exactly is this bill stating? Any car older than 1987 is goin to be scrapped? Like just junk cars or all cars? I dont mean to sound dumb, but exactly does this pertain to? Are the government just goin to go door to door and take any car out of your driveway thats older than 1987 that doesnt run or is junk, or just anything older than 1987?

 

92RS87Z_Driver

go here www.senate.gov
search for
S 1766
click on section 803
Shaun

 

call me crazy, but there is absolutely no way in h*ll this could ever happen, at least not within at least the next 100 years. In order for us to use mass transportation all cities and towns must HAVE mass transportation. Furthur, we can argue that a majority of the cars affected by this bill would be found in rural areas, therefore, transportation would have to be become available EVERYWHERE, no matter how small, or isolated the area is. This alone would be grounds for dismissal because of the overwhelming cost.

Now lets say that have somewhow found a loophole around this. All 1987 and earlier cars are now to be scrapped and the owners are to be paid full value for each car. Now lets just say that are 2,000,000 of these cars (gross understatement i know). Lets say that the average value, including high end muscle and vintage cars, along with parts cars and beater cars, is 6,000 (probably off but lets just go with it). That means that a gross payout by the government of 12 billlion dollars. adn that to the initail cost of transportation methods, and our gov't is just about flat broke.

Now lets get even crazier and say the gov't has somehow worked out all these problems into a workable plan. All cars from 1987 and beyond have now been destroyed. What happens to the parts stores, speed shops, repair shops and machine shops that had previously prospered on the business of these older cars? Either they find a new clientel of guinee pigs and hamsters that have broken exercise wheels, or they go out of business. Unemployment thus rises, and the economy slides into ressession. Now that spending is down, the amount of taxable revenue per capita also goes down. This means the gov't now has even less money to fund it's mass transport program and soon that dries up too. Now the people have now mass trans, and being that they can't afford to go out and buy a relatively new car, they can't go to work, and unemployment soars even higher. By this time, Afganistan has landed in New Jersey and we're all wearing towels around our heads. Sorry folks, it just doesn't make sense.

If i were old enough to be a constituent, i would be sending a message to my congressman, but unfortunately i don't get that privledge for another 3 months

BTW this is all just theory so if any of it isn't right, sorry....

Eric

 

no not the towels

 

The day that happens is the day I rip all the smog sh*t and hollow out the cat on my 00 T/A that they can't touch and become the next bomber with my restored 83 L69 filled with explosives. That is the only way they would get it. It can't and never will happen. Asshol*s need to stop ripping emmisions stuff and hollowing out cats to gain 2 hp. If they stop doing that (which is my old cars are thought of as high polluting) then they might back off. It will never happen so I will continue my restoration

 

Hi guys

Now i live in canada, but my car is american so I understand yur concernes.

What i want to know, is bill aimed at junk vehicals and winter beaters?? Or ( I hope not) include restored and modified cars too??????????

 

It's aimed at cars older than 15 years that don't meet a fuel efficiency requirement. It doesn't really have anything to do with emissions. I just glanced over it, but it seems that the car has to run and be a registered vehicle in order to be turned in, so it's not referring to "junk" cars. And it's not mandatory, just provides an incentive (a payment and/or credit) to turn in a vehicle and replace it with a newer vehicle. I'm not sure what "scrapped" actually meant since that was one word they didn't explicitly define (or I missed in my quick glance).

I'm not too worried about the bill.

 

Ok here's what I understand from this:

Joe Shmoe is married with 3 kids. He works at the Acme factory, making enough to take care of his family, but not enough to buy a newer car. So he's driving a gas guzzling 86 Caprice station wagon. The government wants to provide money to Joe's state so they can offer him money to turn in the Caprice and buy let's say a 94 Cavalier. But yeah, the Caprice will be destroyed. It's not like the gov't is going to knock on his door and say, "Sorry Joe, we gotta take your car. Enjoy the bus."

The cars have to be registered and running to be turned in. So boneyard and parts cars aren't eligable.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like if we want to keep our cars, we can.

 

Still sounds fishy...

Hey, JZA, do you have the link to the actual bill? All I seem to be able to find is the Summit thingie, (without doing a search)

John

 

As long as I can keep my baby I am happy. You better belived I am sending a few of those letters in.

 

How many of you actually read the bill? As I posted on the Tech/Engine board this will not take away your car and smash it. Instead ,what they plan on doing (I think it's a good idea) is to give you the option to give them your car (in working condition) and smash it and they give you money for it. ONLY IF YOU WANT. All this will do is get people to give their POS's to the Gov't to get smashed while they get a down payment on a new car in return.

-Matt

 

the problem isnt in the fact that they are giving u money for ur bomb but in the fact that we cant get parts from these cars. it would destroy the aftermarket part industry for all cars over 15 years old. the demand for parts would drop considerably and there by raise price for used part to crazy amounts.
image going to a junk yard and trying to get used seat belts for ur f-body and have to pay $200. i got mine for $5 last spring. that is the problem
Shaun

 

Now if the government were smart, to keep the money they give for the turn-in cars in the American economy, they wouldn't actually give you a check or cash. They should give a certificate for credit towards the purchase of an American car so that in effect the government's money goes to Joe Blow from Detroit and not to Hoochie Wawamama in Tokyo. If these idiots are gonna put all this money out, at least keep it in the country.

 

Um....thats no true. Just buying domestic insted of domestic/import will not help our economy. It is a myth, there are many reasons, most of wich I cannot remember. But heres one.

The government issues these credit vouchers so everyone must buy american.

American car makers see this and raise their prices . Why ? Because they have no competition.

Prices of imports would aslo go up because hey would not be selling as many.

I wish I could remember some of the better reasons , I took econ last semester and we covered this alot , mabye someone elce knows some.

And on this whole cars for cash thing Im sure it was some great idea thought up by our genious leader

Srry if i misspelled alot im in the library between classed and this keyboard sucks


N8

 

this is a threat, i heard of this a long time ago, didnt say much..


i heard more





EXAMPLE if your car sits in the driveway for a certain amount of time, you will recieve a letter from uncle sam. this is BS...


democrats suck.... LETS WRITE BUSH!! BUSH is a STUD! He'll help us!


this shiet blows... wait mass transit? wait. No option of vehicle? next job processing? COMMUNIST!

just a thought...

 

even bush not dum enuf for this .. this will never happen...

$$ makes the world go round... and there is a shiz load of $$$ that goes thru this country for cars more than 15 years old... and all cars for that matter...


it aint gonna happen....

 

I don't believe that this will be a major issue. I read over the bil which is at http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...kekiz:e198302: , and it seemed to me only that a bonus will be given if you turn in your old car to buy a new one. No owner will be forced to turn in anything. This will benefit us, it seems, if we want to get a replacement vehicle. I dont see how this can be bad.

 

Im hoping that your a female... right?

OK back to the topic. After reading the bill and the posts, I realized that they are not going to take our cars. How ever, if this bill got passed, whats to stop another bill from being passed totally banning 15-older cars?

Ya know, I cant stand this ****. Its fuking sickening what America is turning in to. Out govt. needs to stop worrying about petty bull**** like cars, and worry about more serious problems: cleaning up the ghettos, drugs, starving people, sick, poor, lowering taxes, etc etc etc. The list goes on and on. Every time I think about how this country is being run, I get so *** damn mother ****ing mad. What ever happened to land of the ****ing free? Free? What is free? Its sure not here anymore.

**** I gotta go have a few beers to calm down now.

 

Nope. Ain't gonna happen.

The government can't take things away like thatm there's no way to inforce it.

 

check my avatar, dood, you can say stud, bush is a stud. stud can be the same as in reference to pimp,


lol,

you know he was benching 185 on tv the other day, doods just showing bind laden he wants to kcik his ***.....

 

I would love to see Bush and Bin Laden have it out one on one. But I'd be afraid of Bin Laden biting his ear off or something...

 

Hey if you were a dude, it coulda been your girlfriend!

Oh, and Bin Laden is a pretty big dood... i think hes like 6'3 or 6'4. Ya know what they say though, the bigger they are the harder they fall!

 

double post

 

lol, didnt specify, That IS My GF!


And DAM, IF That is Me, I WANT ME BAD!!!


LoL!

 

:sillylol: :sillylol: :sillylol:

 

Bill in simple terms:

1st....It does not require anyone to turn in anything....It is just stating "IF" you turn it in

2nd: All cars/trucks turned in must be scrapped
3rd: It must be registered to be able to be turned in (in other words, u can't go grab some beater out of a field and turn it in for credit)
4th: Must be operational when turned in....again...can't go grab totalled 20yo beater out of field
5th: Recycler gets credit for scrapping it, owner gets paid fair value for it, and owner gets more credit if they are buying a new fuel efficient car (gets greater than the CAFE standard)

Therefore....If you have a 1973 Pinto that is registered and runs and is drivable....you can turn it in, it will be scrapped, the scrapper will get paid, you will get paid, and you'll get $$ off a nice new Cavalier.

Nuff said?

 

you see 88Roc350TPI, u forgot to think about the consquences of this bill. no u wont get ur car taking away. but the problem is that no one can part these turned on cars. therefore the used parts supply will wash up and thererby increase the price for used parts. another problem is after so many of these cars get turned in the demand for aftermarket parts will dwindle and companys wil stop make parts.
this isnt a prob for the guyes with 68 gto but a prob for US the 3rdgen hotrodders.
Shaun

 

Bin landen would whoop bush in a fight.

Now if al gore were pres, bin laden would get whooped.


Lets not forget that Bush was a cheerleader .


N8

 

they said we were NOT going to become a communist entity,
BUT its looks like thats where we are heading

 

i drive a 92, so i'm not worrying for myself, but most all my friends drive pre 87 cars. They wanna distroy older cars because all the senators drive imports, but they should be bowing down to the american way.:hail: if that law passes, i'm going to steal a monster truck and not let off the gas until all their ***** cars are nothing but scrap metal!!!!!

 

spinder130....

How will it wash up the used parts market? It says the car must be scrapped....Not a word in there anywhere saying that it can't be stripped before it's crushed. It's just saying that it must be in running condition when it's turned in. You can't scrap a car with certain pieces in it anyway, the EPA would have a cow. Basically the car is goin to the auto recycler just like it always has, except now you get premium $$ for it.

 

Another person that did not read the bill. Listen to what 88Roc350TPI and I just said. Aghhhhh...

Those of us that live in the US live in the best country in the world. If you can come up with hard facts to disprove that I'd like to hear them. We're pulling through a tragedy that would run most country's economys into the sewers. Don't critisize a bill that will only end up doing good.

How is the aftermarket product market going down? People don't buy aftermarket parts for thirdgens or any other car if they just plan to send it to the smasher. The people that would do that just bought "a car" not a Camaro or Firebird. There will still be plenty of cars in the junkyards (note that the car must be running to get money) and again the people that bought a Camaro or Firebird for performance are still going to be searching for aftermarket parts to get their ride where they want it like now.

-Matt

 

Here is the actual Bill from Congress
SEC. 803. ASSISTANCE FOR STATE PROGRAMS TO RETIRE FUEL-INEFFICIENT MOTOR VEHICLES.

(a) ESTABLISHMENT- The Secretary shall establish a program, to be known as the `National Motor Vehicle Efficiency Improvement Program,' under which the Secretary shall provide grants to States to operate programs to offer owners of passenger automobiles and light-duty trucks manufactured in model years more than 15 years prior to the fiscal year in which appropriations are made under subsection (d) to provide financial incentives to scrap such automobiles and to replace them with automobiles with higher fuel efficiency.

(b) STATE PLAN- Not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of an appropriations act containing funds authorized under subsection (d), to be eligible to receive funds under the program, the Governor of a State shall submit to the Secretary a plan to carry out a program under this subtitle in that State.

(c) ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA- The Secretary shall approve a State plan and provide the funds under subsection (d), if the State plan--

(1) requires that all passenger automobiles and light-duty trucks turned in be scrapped;

(2) requires that all passenger automobiles and light-duty trucks turned in be currently registered in the State in order to be eligible;

(3) requires that all passenger automobiles and light-duty trucks turned in be operational at the time that they are turned in;

(4) restricts automobile owners (except not-for-profit organizations) from turning in more than one passenger automobile and one light-duty truck in a 12-month period;

(5) provides an appropriate payment to the person recycling the scrapped passenger
automobile or light-duty truck for each turned-in passenger automobile or light-duty truck;


(6) provides a minimum payment to the automobile owner for each passenger automobile and light-duty truck turned in; and

(7) provides, in addition to the payment under paragraph (6), an additional credit that may be redeemed by the owner of the turned-in passenger automobile or light-duty truck at the time of purchase of new fuel-efficient automobile.

(d) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS- There are hereby authorized to be appropriated to the Secretary to carry out this section such sums as may be necessary, to remain available until expended.

(e) ALLOCATION FORMULA- The amounts appropriated pursuant to subsection (d) shall be allocated among the States on the basis of the population of the States as contained in the most recent reliable census data available from the Bureau of the Census, Department of Commerce, for all States at the time that the Secretary needs to compute shares under this subsection.

(f) DEFINITIONS- In this section:

(1) AUTOMOBILE- The term `automobile' has the meaning given such term in section 32901(3) of title 49, United States Code.

(2) Fuel-efficient automobile-

(A) The term `fuel-efficient automobile' means a passenger automobile or a light-duty truck that has an average fuel economy greater than the average fuel economy standard prescribed pursuant to section 32902 of title 49, United States Code, or other law, applicable to such passenger automobile or light-duty truck.

(B) The term `average fuel economy' has the meaning given such term in section 32901(5) of title 49, United States Code.

(C) The term `average fuel economy standard' has the meaning given such term in section 32901(6) of title 49, United States Code.

(D) The term `fuel economy' has the meaning given such term in section 32901(10) of title 49, United States Code.

(3) LIGHT-DUTY TRUCK- The term `light-duty truck' means an automobile that is not a passenger automobile. Such term shall include a pickup truck, a van, or a four-wheel-drive general utility vehicle, as those terms are defined in section 600.002-85 of title 40, Code of Federal Regulations.

(4) PASSENGER AUTOMOBILE- The term `passenger automobile' has the meaning given such term by section 32901(16) of title 49, United States Code.

(5) SECRETARY- The term `Secretary' means the Secretary of Energy.

(6) STATE- The term `State' means any of the several States and the District of Columbia.


Still sounds a little fishy to me...

John

 

Ok, here's my problem w/the bill. I mean, sure it sounds all good and stuff getting the old crap off the road. But this allows the government to get it's butt in the door and on the way to taking our cars. We all know that once the gov. starts getting bigger in one direction, it's awful hard if not impossible to get them to stop. Who knows where this bill would lead to!? Sure, it's optional NOW, but in another 5-10 years? I'm getting so sick and freaking tired of the liberals and the stupid environmentalists trying to turn our wonderful freedom into dang communism. Anyway, that's my opinion that everyone's entitled too

--Craig