ORAY777

Anyone know if anyone sells a ramair kit for the thirdgen camaro's? I have a 1991 Z28 1LE 5.7 auto. Has anyone made a homemade one before? How much horsepower do you think it's worth?

91RedBigFinZ

I made mine for $20, but thats only because I had to buy 20 feet of air conditioning duct. I think its is well worth it as compared to $150 and up. Also, from what I hear the fog lamp ducts are more of a high pressure area than the hood anyway. Doug

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Make your own.

Garett92Z

hey doug, i have a similar setup to your car... minus a couple of things (just need the headers and runners)
I thought the mods you listed would've dyno'd a little bit more. what do you think? was the dyno after all the mods????

I'm not really down with sinking $600 into my ride to see 10 more dyno horsepower.

91RedBigFinZ

The dyno was after all of the mods. Remember this is RWHP. Basically its between 266-283 Hp at the engine. I've gained about 21-38 hp at the engine depending on what you take out for the drivetrain loss. Also, there are bottlenecks in my system. (intake base, heads) I figure that once I get a new base - matched to the runners and plenum; and get new heads, everything will open up. Also- that is without the 'ram air effect'. If a mod says it will give you 10hp - it usually won't if that is the only thing you put on. Maybe you know all of this already. Im just giving my thought on the matter. Doug

92BLKL98

I made my own out of about $5 worth of sheet plastic and a couple of hours to form it and install the square ducts under the filter boxes i cut the bottoms out and the boxes pick up air from the grille openings above the fog lights. Works pretty good as indicated on MAT on the scanner. Had ~15* drop in MAT over the stock set up at cruise speeds.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Low RPM TQ felt the same right?? Where is the noticable gain from Ram Air??

92BLKL98

Well the car tends to have better roll-on power and maybe throttle response but, I've also relocated the MAT sensor to the air duct ahead of the throttle body, which gives the ECM a lower MAT input. I've heard this allows the ECM to go to a richer mixture and changes the ignition advance a little. Never the less this car runs real strong with no more mods than I've done. There again it has always had no problem running away from a lot of other comparably tuned TPI 350's. My 1/8th mile times are consistently 9.0 - 9.1. With my suspension mods and being able to plant the tires better I hope to see a tick better at the track. I hope - hope - hope.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

horsepower varies on application, i have the same car w/ air conditioning and i'm pulling 8.6-8.8 in the 1/8 with stock engine. i have a full exhaust system an my custom cold air; it works great....an unlike trying to use the foglight vents it uses the most air down from underneath the car where there is more airflow.....

92BLKL98

I don't really think your 1/8 times are as much a product of ram air as it is maybe the track. The track I was at is really kind of Sh-tty and I was having some serious traction problems spinning through the 60 ft timer. I can get a better launch on a dry highway than that track, I don't believe that if you run street tires you should run through the water box. for one you carry too much water in the front tires to the track plus if you do enough of a burn to get the tires hot they are probably going to get greasy and create traction problems. Does anyone who has a lot of experience with street tires have any comments on that subject? Ram air is not worth but about 10 hp hardly enough for .2 - .4 sec in the 1/8 mi. Plus I'm not interested in moving the battery to the rear of the car. I'm thinking about fabing a kit to work with the 2" cowl induction hood on the car to see how that works.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

see that's interesting; but does that explain why your running 9's.......the fact that your running your intake from your foglights as well as using march pulleys is enough to make a difference between us. true the track i went to was a good track; but it's not enough to argue your point. i went around the box an didn't warm up the tires, most places won't let you go through the box with street tires. also, i did 2 comparative runs with an without the intake; both with exact same 60' an close r/a time. the intake proved to be well worth it.

i do believe the intake is useless up until 30-40 mph, but after that it's all on design. main reason why i didn't go through the foglights.

if you don't want to relocate your battery then don't; what ever works for you. i wasn't tell you to copy me or anyone else, just trying to give ideas to others. considering the very little mods that were done for those runs i am particularly happy with it. especially since it was low 40 degrees out an i had no experience whatsoever running the car. can't wait to see what it will do this summer.

92BLKL98

No, I'm not arguing the efficiency of your system It appears to definitely be better than the SLP variation. It just doesn't seem that in most of the tech info on ram air regardless of who designed it is worth that kind of hpto give you .2 - .4 sec. A poorly operated track such as the one I used where the entrance to the staging lanes is so narrow that it forces you through the water box can definitely have an effect on optimum times up to and greater than .2 - .4 secs. I plan to check out the facility at the Atlanta Dragway in Commerce, Ga which is used extensively by the big guns of racing to see if I can find better track conditions. I do as I said before plan to try to re-design my air intake to see if I can find a better (more efficient) alternative to the system. I believe one restriction and possibly a problem in my system is the intake duct where it narrows to go over the radiator. When you rev the engine at an idle you can feel the duct collapse slightly indicating to me a vacuum effect or a slight restriction there, we'll see.

91RedBigFinZ

Kandied, is your system 'cold air' or 'ram air'? Cold air wont have any increased benifits at higher speeds. If it is ram air, its possible that kandieds ram air is more efficient than the ones run through the fog lights - since there is alot of air flow down there, and no fog lights to restrict flow. The 'ram air' also serves as cold air induction up to the point where it starts to force air into the plenum. When I installed my ram air (and TB bypass), my plenum would feel as cold as the aimbient air temperature. Before it just felt hot. Colder air is more dense. This is worth some horsepower on its own. Kandied, do you ever have any problems with junk getting into your ram-air? I would like to see a pic of the system from under the car. Doug

1991Z28

Yeah. I'd love to see more detailed pics of both of your systems, Kandied and 92blkL98. Kandied, I'd like to see where yours is getting the air from and how you ducted it. 92blk, I'd like to see how you used plastic sheet...seems like it'd work better and create less turbulence than using a/c ducting.

Tom84L69

any ideas for a carbed ram air setup? My car is an 84 and doesn't have your foglights, would the grille openings work? what would you do to seal off the air filter around the carb? i've seen the ram air box for sale in the back of super chevy but it's 150 or so dollars. i want to make my own.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

well you could consider it both......."ram air" is considered a mild type of forced induction. "cold air" is more or less a system that relocates the area of air intake so that it recieves a denser charge.

mine you could say is a combination of both, it relocates the air intake away from it's normal "warm" area by directing over to the passenger side where there is less heat as well as routing down through the battery tray where air is forced up by the "air dam" that you see under our cars. i used a rather large shop fan, much like they use for dynos, to understand and figure out the best area for air flow....although this was on my car and i can't vouch for others.

by enlarging the intake to match the size of the throttle body and the rest of the plenum the intake can breath much better. a good example is to hold a piece of cardboard over your stock setup and then over your new setup. with the stock setup it couldn't hold a piece of cardboard to the intake at idle let alone while throwing revs.

if i remove my air filter and place a piece of cardboard over the end, at idle it will hold it in place with no problem....at higher rpms it will actually leave marks in the cardboard. showing if anything that it has a less restricted acess to its air.

the only problem and one that makes my setup somewhat impracticle is wet weather driving.....if you were to drive through a deep puddle by any chance, it will act as a big straw. i've ran it before through heavy down poor and had no problem, but one time i was cought off gaurd and hit a larger puddle. i shut the car off as soon as i hit it, but you could here it try to suck water in.

the coolest part about the setup, besides the efficiency is the fact that whether at idle or at a higher rpm it sounds like a blower because of the air sucking up through the tube. in fact most people ask if it is in fact a blower.... sometimes i wonder what people are thinking, but i can't blame them if they don't know enough.

here's an older pic that's a little more close up.

sIcK pUpPy

Kandied,

where did you have that beautiful pipe fabbed at? I'd love to get my hands on one o' those.

JD

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

my local exhaust shop; it was the owners design; i told him whatever would work best......an voila!

i love it; he's also done a few other f-bodys with 3" intakes, i like the 4" myself though.

92BLKL98

The biggest thing that I can see right now is the fact if I too were running nitrous I would probably be running mid 8's. So the ram air you are running is probably not that much more than what I'm running other than the fact that it takes up much precious room that these cars by design have very little of. The amount of debris I clean off the filters every two weeks is evidence of my systems efficiency. I learned of this fact by reading the posts on CZ28.com, so when you brag tell the whole story. 8.6 1/8 times are LS1 territory not easily achieved with a N/A stock L98. I kind of wondered how you were getting such good 8th times and 12's in the 1/4. I've NEVER had another N/A stock L98 run away from me. We would come within a couple of hundreths together, and more often than not I was a 10th or 2 ahead. The March pulleys did not help anything but created problems with drained batteries, so I removed the crank pulley for now till I decide to replace the alternator with a better unit that can handle a lower rpm operation. I'm not arguing you or even really care just clearing up facts. Power is where you find it, whether nitrous, supercharged, turbocharged, or just by getting it the old fashioned way on motor. Have a nice day.

91RedBigFinZ

This fact alone does not necessarily prove that there is increased airflow. If you used the 'dual' stock intake to run the test, the airflow would naturally be smaller because there are two intakes, and half of the suction for the same airflow. Also, If the stock intakes have a larger opening than your system, that lessens the suction effect even more. (like sucking through a small straw then a larger straw, for example)

I'm not saying anything about the efficiency of anything, just stating some facts.

Doug

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

doug, my point of that post was to briefly explain what the setup does in comparison to another setup. your right it doesn't indirectly prove their is any more airflow than the next setup; to technically prove it in two or three paragraphs would be a bit differnt. but, have you ever seen the K&N filter examples at stores where they have two comparative setups an the k&N flows better.......?

it's all on design. now i'm not trying to sell anything or tell people what to do, i am telling you that over the stock setup w/ K&N filters it flows better; as well as better than the setup 92BLKL98 has on his car......i know because we've tested them when i was considering the same setup. now if you don't want to relocate your battery or move your other parts on the oposite side you will have to go the route 92BLKL98 has gone.....does it work, yes. is it better than stock, yes. wether or not it's better than my setup, i would have to say it isn't; but that's my decision. i wouldn't have bothered to run a setup that would cause me more work and modifications if it didn't work.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

92BLKL98:
i'm not sure were your getting at with the this. i do however take it personal when you are trying to say that i'm not telling the full story. i feel as if you have a need to justify why your car runs slower which is uncalled for...there is always someone who will be faster.

however it may seem; i am not braging about my setup.....it really doesn't matter what my setup does as i am sure there is a better setup, but it works so i try to share with those that might be interested.

if some of you would look in the tpi forum you would know about my N2O adventures; i'm sure that most do since you can see it in the pics.

i don't hide the fact i have N2O.......hell look in the picture above 92BLKL98; it's right there plain view. my point is to let people know what this intake setup has done for me and let them decide for themselves. if you are somehow upset that it works better than yours then that is something that you'll just have to deal with.

i am not trying to put your setup down or say your car is slow in anyway, it is slower than mine.......but that's a different story.

9's are a good time, my car had a few 9 flat passes when working with it. i stated some of my times just to signify what difference my mods have done, if i were running my N2O on those runs the times would be better as i hope yours would too (minded we have some sort of solution to traction like drag radials or such).

now you must have read elsewhere or seen in the pics that i have N2O. what your getting at is beyond me. these times i told you were not on N2O, that would comletely throw out any significant data or point of what a difference the setup has made for me. that would be like saying i added a K&N an a 50 shot of nitrous and made 50 horsepower at the dyno.......what would that prove? :nono:

if you don't like the design of it, or how it takes up so much of your precious room then that's fine......personally i like it which is why i have it and care to share to others which by the way tend to like it as well.

the debris your picking off your filter means nothing other than the filter is working by keeping such elements out.....i'm happy that you like your design as it is your car. my setup has relatively no maintence as the debris your talking about is typically redirected. does this mean i'm getting less air? no, what does it mean........it means the filter is in a location that isn't subjected to as much. so basically it has no effect on this subject. if it works for you then i'm glad. mine works for me.

if your talking about learning i have N2O reading threads on cz28.com, just look at my picture it's right there; i'm obviously not trying to hide it. i have never once ever said that i could achieve 12's with out any power adder....hense i never said N/A stock L98......i have however said stock L98 which it is..no internal modifications whatsoever. most people understand this. :nono:

my 1/8 times had nothing to do with the N2O, in fact it was wose with it.....closer to your times. less traction can be bad obviously. now my 1/4 times are a different story and i have never tried to say i've gotten a low time without N2O. what stock L98 has ever reached 12's or even low 13's ever? very few if any. but i can get the same times as similar modded lt1's without using the N2O which is mid 13's to high 13's.

as far as my pulley comment i was stating that if your times you claim were with the pulley an intake setup you have, then that may have been dfferent enough to make a the difference between us. nothing more.
simple point i thought, as you can see when your describing how you are trying to rework it that it isn't the most efficent setup; hense why so many are against them.

you say you aren't arguing with me. i do feel that you are trying to argue with me in saying i'm using N2O with my setup an it's the reason i have lower times than you.......well obvioulsy my setup does work or i wouldn't post it; wether you CARE to believe it or not is your own preference. although you must care or you wouldn't try to acuse me of lying about my car an trying to say that in fact i use N2O on my runs to get my times. do you need a reason to to explain why your car is slower on the same type of mods? you better look harder....... :nono:

why you want to do that to me i have no idea, i do take it personal though as your trying to make me out a liar which is uncalled for........everything i have ever said about my car is on many forums as well as my pages that describe what is going on. i haven't tried to make the illusion that because of this intake i'm running i can pull off 12 sec passes, that is obviously with the N2O. i can pull 13 though. when i have times with N2O i tell them, these particular times weren't on N2O.

so to all those reading yes i have nitrous and yes it helped me reach 12's.......the 1/8 times very alot on the N2O due to street tires an the fact it was the first time at the track. these times are to show you what the car runs on just my intake setup, headers, and 3" exhaust...which is mid-high 13's.

i'm sorry 92BLKL98 thatyou've NEVER had a N/A stock L98 run away from you; that something you need to experience. even i have had that happen to me; you really should get out more so you realize your car isn't the fastest L98 ever....... :hail:

come up here some time as i would be happy to show you my tail lights............i'll even leave the N2O off for you.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

sorry to all for the relatively long post.......it just bothers me when someone tries to make someone out to be a liar. i don't like liers or people who try to make others out to be one.......

i have no problem that 92BLKL98 was trying to understand the differences; but to say that i wasn't telling the full story when clearly i was is aggrivating. get your facts completely right before you try to deface someone...........!

91RedBigFinZ

Kandied - agreed. Your design may very well be more efficient than mine or any other out there. I was just making sure everyone was aware of the principles.

Is your filter at the bottom of your tube like the (SLP, K&N) setups? Just wondering.

It would be interesting (yet difficult) to conduct a test on the efficiency of both of the systems (yours and the fog light type) at higher speeds - to see which has more of a ramming effect on the incoming air.

Doug

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

yes it is at the bottom of the tube. while i am in no way saying that mine is the most efficient setup, i am saying that it works and i felt that i would at least share it with others. i'm not the only one using this idea of setup so that should be evidence enough that it's functional.

as far as testing, like i said, i'm in no way trying to sell this idea or make it out to be the best design out there. i'm basically stating that between the stock idea, the "foglight" idea and mine; mine flows alot more an makes more than enough difference for me to use it.

1991Z28

92BLKL98: What did you use to fasten the plastic sheet together? Where'd you get the plastic sheet? How thick is it? I really don't want to mess with relocating anything yet (or buying new K&Ns ).
Kandied91Z: What all do you have done to your car? What does it run in the 1/4 N/A (I don't know much about the 1/8th)? Just curious and getting ideas for my car ...I definitely don't mean to provoke anything (except for my car to be faster), so if you would rather, you're welcome to e-mail it to me at kph46e@mizzou.edu
Thanks to both of you.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

mid to high 13's......i need some dr's before i can get a solid time.

92BLKL98

1991Z28 The Kit I designed was molded to shape using a heat gun to warm the sheet then the seams welded together using a tolulene glue much like modeling glue. My plan was to check out the design using the plastic as a temporary design but it worked so well and after seven years they have shown no signs of damage except they gather plenty of road grime which is easily cleaned at the local spray wash. Be prepared to clean your filters about every couple of weeks the cold air/ram air kits seem to collect plenty of debris.

Kandied91z hey man I'm not really trying to come down on you. As I said, I think there's merit to both of our designs, and power is where you find it. I will probably get into NOS too but I am none too interested in putting it on a 195,000 engine even though the venerable 350 doesn't want to die. I plan to build an engine for the car and I'm going to build it with a worry free bottom end in mind, meaning if I want to use a power adder then let it happen. All I can say is good luck and get faster if you and I ever do meet you may need it ( a challenge , huh). I'm adding to this car dailey, In the past 3 weeks I've added $2,300.00 in suspension goodies. Damn does it handle good.
Mike

eddiez28

Yep made mine for 18 bucks. Two plastic gutter Downspouts with the square open end and flexible tube and two dryer vent caps both 4 inch from lowes, mount ur cap on bottom ur filters will lay in like factory, mount square end behind foglights took bout 30 mins.