corey8084

For starters, if there is a thread already covering this, point me to it and I'll gladly close this thread if it answers my question.

I understand that the primary fan doesn't come on till something like 225 and the secondary around 245 but my concern right now is that before, my car's temp gauge would never past the first tiny tick mark past the first larger one even when idling. now, though, it will stay in that position as long as I'm moving but when I'm stuck at a red light, I can watch my temp gauge climb steadily. I don't know how high it will get because I'd rather not test it and wind up on the side of the road with a blown motor so I will cut the engine if I know the red light has a really long delay.

Today was the worst I've seen it though. sitting at a light, I didn't realize how long I had been sitting there and when I started moving again, I looked down and saw that the gauge was on top of the third large tick. I immediately pulled into the first parking lot I saw and killed the engine. I checked my coolant levels and while there was none in my over flow (there never is) I filled it up any way. after filling the over flow, I shut the hood, started the car (still very hot) and started going down the road where the gauge very quickly dropped back down to around the first tick mark where I'm used to it being. obviously, this is cause for a lot of concern for me and I'd rather not blow my engine up if I can help it.

Bonus question (similar topic): the connector from the temp sensor on the header really seams to enjoy cuddling up to the header and is melting the connector. how can I prop that thing up in a way that it doesn't try to rest on that hot bed?

Thanks guys.

SbFormula

Are your fan or fans working? Is it a TPI or TBI? I have never heard of an MFI.

It seems like with speed your engine cools off pretty fast and good. It's only when sitting idling. That points towards your fan that might not be functioning. That would be a start for trouble shooting. Pop the hood and check it out!

Best of luck!

corey8084

It's a TPI. I've confirmed that one of the fans is working, I assume that it's the primary one but waiting for the temp to get high enough for the second one to come on makes me nervouse. when I thought both fans ran simultaneously, I figured the other fan was either bad or something was wrong with the wiring. now, knowing this new information, I'm not sure at all.

SbFormula

The other fan will come on at 240 if I remember correctly. If the outside temp is in the 90s, you could easily reach 225 in traffic. I would do some testing a home a let it come up to see if it stabilizes after a while. The second fan should come on. Leave the hood up and be ready to stop the engine. If temp gets too high and both fans are on, you definitely have a problem. It could be a clogged coolant system or improper AFR that causes the engine too run hot.

Do you still have the original injectors?

corey8084

yes, it has the original injectors. when I bought the car the PO had put 24's in, I decided to bring them back to the 19's.

what is the AFR?

If I had a clogged coolant system, would it cool off so quickly while moving? not trying to say you're wrong in this regard, just want to make sure I understand everything.

corey8084

TBH, now that I'm thinking about it, the temp started acting weird when I switched back to 19's. it stayed at the cooler temp with the 24's.

SbFormula

Just my nature not to assume anything and check the basics
AFR is Air Fuel Ratio

SbFormula

When you switched back, did you reprogram the chip? The 19's you have are they new?

corey8084

I did not reprogram the chip, wasn't aware that they had programmed the chip for the 24's. and yes, I bought the 19's new.

SbFormula

Okkk! You have to reprogram the chip or what ever ECM you have. The 19's are smaller but the ECM thinks they are bigger (24's) so you are running lean. However, the BLM are probably able to compensate otherwise you would get a code... but you never know. You will definitely be lean in Power Enrichment (when you floor it). This is problematic as you could destroy the engine at WOT and high RPM!!!!

A lean condition creates a lot of heat. I bet that is your problem.

corey8084

sorry, I'm not good with acronyms, what's the BLM?

SbFormula

Block Learn Multiplier... Never mind that! The ECM compensate to adjust the AFR if it's lean using the 02 sensor signal. This is true assuming the PO has not tempered too much with the chip. Some folks like to run in open loop and disable the compensation routine.

corey8084

if it was running lean enough to cause it to reach those temps, would I notice a loss in performance? I really just want to keep this thing alive long enough for me to get an actual daily driver and park it till I can replace the engine with something I want.

antares57

iTrader: (8)

Sounds like you're loosing coolant somewhere if you're continuously filling the overflow tank. If the injectors don't solve the issue you may have a water pump or thermostat issue. Unless you have aftermarket gauges don't put to much stock into their readings. Get an infrared thermometer and read the temp at the thermostat for better accuracy.

SbFormula

Not necessarily. You would probably not feel it that much at WOT.

Just read antares57 post. He's right about the overflow!!! Overlooked that one. If the coolant needs to be refilled on regular basis like antares57 said, you're loosing some somewhere.

corey8084

I've considered that I could be loosing coolant, but I don't have to fill it. I can leave the over flow tank empty for ever without running out of coolant, I think the tank itself has a leak maybe.

corey8084

sbFormula, there you go with the acronyms again! lol googled this one though, you talking about wide open throttle?

SbFormula

Sorry

I have read so many posts on TGO (ThirdGen.org) that I don't even realize it. Yep Wide Open Throttle

corey8084

and the one acronym I know, you spell it out. lol!

SbFormula

LOL

To me if the problem started after you switched the injectors that makes sense. As far as faulty gauge it's possible but unlikely. But to be sure, it's worth the check.

You need to find a tuner in your area that could look at your program (Tune or .BIN) and modify it... or you put the 24's back

corey8084

*sigh* paying a tuner sounds expensive right now so I guess I'll just have to wait till I can put the car up and make upgrades/fixes as I can afford it.

SbFormula

Unfortunately! If i'd be closer I'd do it for cheap. It's a matter of minutes when you know what you're doing and you have the proper hardware. The cost of a chip plus labour. If you're lucky the PO has put a writable chip that can be reburnt.

corey8084

the PO was an idiot, so it's probably the stock chip... lol

SbFormula

Stock cannot be reprogrammed!!! LOL
Do you have some pics of your car?
Now I am hacking your post with this ramble on!

corey8084

I say he was an idiot but I'm one as well for not even thinking that if he did change the chip for the 24's, I would need to get the chip retuned for the 19's. and I do. let me see if I can find them, might not have any on my laptop though.

SbFormula

Why would he put 24's??? It's useless on a 305

corey8084

he said he wanted more power. I felt no power loss when I went down to the 19's though.

Found the pictures:

http://s473.photobucket.com/user/cor...?sort=3&page=1

these pictures were taken as soon as I bought the car. I've done a bit of work to the interior, new front and rear seats and a new head board. other than that, I've kind of just been fixing things as they break.

SbFormula

OKkkk! I see what you mean by the adjective you use to describe the PO


Cheers

corey8084

yeah, when no one I talked to mentioned any possible gain I would have by keeping the 24's in there and how running so rich could cause a lot more problems, I decided to bring them back down.

SbFormula

Interesting. It has the steering wheel of an earlier model and a non Formula rear spoiler. The TPI runners are after market and the tail light are non Formula. Looks like Trans Am tail lights.

SbFormula

Maybe the PO never reprogrammed the chip! If your 19's are new but used Multec they could be off. Do you have brand new Bosh?

corey8084

I knew the steering wheel and spoiler were from an older firebird, didn't know about the runners or the tail lights. don't know what they look like stock so without someone telling me, I'd never know. lol

corey8084

I don't remember which brand I bought, I got them from southbay injectors.

SbFormula

That's what they look like. Yours are like an older trans am model

SbFormula

Cool! It's the good stuff

corey8084

oh, I kind of like those more! that explains why the turn signal sockets don't fit very well. the back end of them hit the body.

Wife'sCar

iTrader: (1)

This was a pointless post on my part, my phone didn't load the whole thread so I missed a bunch and answered a question that was answered a whole lot of posts back. Pretend I was never here......

corey8084

well, now that you've posted and I've missed it, I'm curious what you said! XD lol

Are the runners the tubes coming from the plenum to the cylinders?

SbFormula

Are the runners the tubes coming from the plenum to the cylinders?[/QUOTE]

Yep from the plenum to the intake manifold base. It looks like SLP Siamesed runners

SbFormula

We've gone way out of topic here lol

corey8084

we have, but you've provided me with a ton of really useful information and I really appreciate it.

SbFormula

No worries! That's what TGO is for. I have learned a lot from those posts and still learn every day. Some members have been here for more than a decade posting and helping the community. I am just returning what was given to me.


Cheers

SbFormula

Your hood cowl grill is from a trans am. The original Formula was a black blank plate. You have OEM style double exhaust! The mags have been repainted black.

corey8084

you wouldn't happen to have a picture? I can only assume you are talking about the honey comb? if that's not what you're talking about then I don't know what the hood cowl grill is. I'm not mechanically inclined and have been learning as I go

SbFormula

That's it, the honey comb!!! I meant Hood Cowl Induction Grille... lol. In the early days of the third generation models, the Cowl Induction was actually functional an certain model. The Trans Am if I remember correctly. The engine was breathing its air through it.

corey8084

really? I always thought that the cowl was for exhausting hot air. (I can see hot air hit my windshield when it's cold)

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

At speed, the car definitely pulls air in through that bulge. My paint is flaking off and I saw it suck a few pieces through there. Luckily that isn't where my intake is

SbFormula

http://ateupwithmotor.com/terms-tech...s/hood-scoops/


Our TPI sucks through the air intake down the fender. But certain model, carbureted I believe, had an entry on top of the air cleaner like this one.

AmpleUnicorn88

Did you ever discover the problem? I read through the posts on here real quick so I apologize if I ask a question that's already been answered, or is stupid.

One thing I am wondering is if you have checked the coolant level in the radiator. You mentioned that you have an overflow tank but don't ever fill it up. You would definitely start having heating issues if your coolant level got low enough. I don't mean to insult your intelligence, so if that was to be assumed that you check, I apologize. If you filled up your over flow tank and then noticed a significant drop, you were low on coolant most likely, assuming it doesn't dump it all back into the overflow tank after you turn it off. That would indicate a leak somewhere. There is a head gasket leak tester you can buy at most auto parts stores. It's a turkey baster like device that uses a dye that turns green if it's a slight head gasket leak or yellow if it's bad (it might be the other way, I can't fully remember). It's not too expensive, and I have heard that it is pretty reliable. I have replaced basically everything relating to the cooling system on my 88 camaro in the last 2 months mainly because of them causing problems, short of the head gaskets. My water pump was bad for who knows how long, and i noticed a few days before it took a dump on me that there was a tiny bit of fluid on the top of the water pump by the gasket. I thought I would make it to the following weekend to replace it, but 2 days later, it failed and started dumping out of it. Before though, for a few weeks I seemed to be running hot and I couldn't figure it out. Turns out that was the problem. It also affected my gas mileage significantly, because I was getting average 24-25 mpg, and even got about 27 on one tank, and then all of a sudden 2 tanks in a row I got below 20 mpg.