40ozthreat

I am trying to understand the differences between the ebl p4 and the ebl classic. I understand the p4 is from a 7749 and the original is based on the 7747 respectively. Since i am currently running a 8625 i still need to do some connector changing so neither one is a direct plug in.
What i would like to know is there any majot advantages to the p4? I am going to boost my motor so the 8625 wont cut it. Right now I am screwing around with a tbi and 2 low impedence supplimentary injectors, but may switch to mpfi or a fast throttle body. First I would like to get my engine management up to snuff. I have also considered code 59 as i own an autoprom, but it seems that injector firing is a little tricky for tbi.
All advice is welcome.

40ozthreat

After looking at the site the only differences i see are p4 is usb and ebl flash is serial. However, the system requirements are different between the ebl flash and the p4. Not sure if this is just to accomodate usb 2.0 or if the datalogging is sufficiently faster on the p4.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The EBL Classic is PROM based and no longer sold.

The main difference between the EBL Flash and the EBL P4 is: it depends upon what you want to do. The EBL P4 won't handle two TBI injectors properly. The firing rate is incorrect. It will handle a single TBI injector on say a 4-cylinder engine.

The EBL P4 has more I/O so it has additional capabilities that the EBL Flash does not. Such as running an AIR system and two electric fans. Plus it has an oil temperature sensor input.

The EBL Flash is for both TBI and MPFI systems. In stock form it runs a 2-bbl TBI set up. Can run a 4-bbl TBI with the 4-Injector Upgrade.

With the Port Mod the EBL Flash will run a MPFI system. Note that with the Port Mod installed it can not run a TBI set up. The Port Mod can be added at any time down the road.

The EBL P4 is USB based, so need a laptop that has a USB port.

The EBL Flash is serial based and can use a USB port with a <good> USB to Serial adapter cable.

RBob.

40ozthreat

Gotcha. It has cleared up a lot that there was in fact a classic, which does not refer to the ebl flash.
After many times on your site i finally found the ebl ecm choice page. It would be nice if this was a little easier to find, and would be nice if there was a table showing all of the differences.
I look forward to using the system that you have developed, but i do have one more question.
Is there any difference in sampling rate between the flash and p4 or any other known hardware performance differences?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Putting the differences into a table format is a good idea (jot that down...).

There are differences in the EBL hardware as there are differences in the ECM architectures.

But it really doesn't matter to the end user. Both send 256 bytes of ECM data along with the 8 ADC channels in each packet. The data rate is 17 packets every second.

RBob.

40ozthreat

Thanks Rbob. That confirms my assumption, similar design different implementation. Like I said before I look forward to using this. The only thing I dont understand is how you can offer so much support and still continue to develope new hardware?

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

That was explained a few days ago Klaatu barada nikto RoboBob

thatsupnow

okay Ive already got a custom chip that is getting pretty close and would like to upgrade to one of these units, would I be able to take the tune that is on the chip now and get it onto the flash system?? If thats able to be done no problem then Im buying one on payday!

graebz28

iTrader: (5)

So both are batch fire or is the P4 sequential. What if someone who has a non P4 want to upgrade to it? Just got my HSR today!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

You can do that. Will need to copy the data over into an EBL calibrations and flash it in.

If this is the engine/car in your mini sig: "1991 camaro Z28", with a TPI setup. Stock is the '7730 ECM for which you will need the EBL P4 Flash system.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The EBL Flash in stock form runs the two TBI injectors alternately on each plug firing. With the Port Mod installed the EBL Flash ECM runs the MPFI injectors in batch fire mode.

The EBL P4 ECM will run a single TBI injector at each plug firing. It will also run 4, 6, or 8 cylinder MPFI mode in batch fire.

> What if someone who has a non P4 want to upgrade to it?

It depends upon the current ECM and how much work you want to do to convert. For the MAF cars the EBL Flash w/Port Mod is the easiest swap. Just a few terminals/wires get moved in the ECM harness connectors along with plumbing in a MAP sensor.

Can also use the EBL P4 Flash ECM. This requires nearly all terminals/wires being moved along with adding a third connector. The up side is that with more I/O over the EBL Flash, it is more capable.

Such as running two electric fans plus an A.I.R. system.

RBob.

thatsupnow

Awesome!! Yea its the TPI setup with an HSR intake and a bunch of other goodies. So I guess Ill be ordering one on friday

Cadride

I was hoping to run the EBL P4 on my TBI [Current PCM 16197427] with a Whipple SC where I wouldn't think that independent injector firing would be necessary; is this correct? I would like to use the P4 for the added benefit of electric fans and knock sensor.

If the P4 will not work is my only option to find a EBL Flash unit.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The EBL P4 Flash won't run a 2-bbl TBI, it only has one injector driver.

The EBL Flash ECM supports a single electric fan along with a knock sensor & module.

RBob.

Xanath

Hi RBob. I've been stalking the EBL Flash for awhile now, and I was just wondering, do you have any plans to update the unit to support 2 electric fans, oil temp sensor, and USB 2.0 (3.0?) support, amongst other potential goodies?

If not, is there any reason why (besides time of course ) that the EBL Flash can not/could not support these extra features that the P4 version can? I sure would love to get those benefits for my CFI in the EBL Flash!! Thanks for all your hard work on this too, by the way!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

These features are dependent upon how much I/O there is in the ECM. In the case of the EBL Flash system, we could double up some features, such as done now with the EGR & N2O support. It is one or the other, not both. They use the same q-driver output.

We have considered putting additional drivers on the EBL Flash board itself. But that creates issues such as heat sinking and getting that output out of the ECM case.

RBob.

lakeffect2

Looks like my Prominator daughter board chip has crapped the diaper, and is gone, never to return. The ECM will run the engine on just the base chip or an "Alvin" chip, but dead to the world when the Prominator chip is in place.

In looking for a replacemnet with similar funtionality, I note the EBL, like the Prominator, will store 8 bins internally. Can it be manually switched with a hardwired rotary switch? Or this from Moates? http://www.moates.net/ex-remote-swit....html?cPath=64

I have 7730 ECM running a speed density system typical batch fire injectors
I also have external gauges like a wide band AFR hooked into the Current ECM.
I'm thinking the P4 with Knock sensor and port mod would be the way to return the vehicle to a running stste.

Please offer your suggestions and comments.

P.S. Is anyone out there that repairs the Prominiator? I'l like to keep it as a back up if possible to return it from the grave.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

To switch calibration banks need to send a command via the comm interface. A rotary switch won't do it.

> I'm thinking the P4 with Knock sensor and port mod would be the way

The Port Mod is not required with the EBL P4 Flash ECM. Can use either an internal plug-able knock filter or an external module type filter. The P4 & SFI-6 Install guide on our web site shows knock filter options.

RBob.

lakeffect2

It also appears my old laptop will be put out to pasture soon as well the prominator.
I noticed the EBL site indicates operating platforms include XP, Vista and Windows 7.

Most new laptops are preloaded with Windows 8. Will there be a problem using 8 instead of the prior operating systems?

Thanks again,

Dave

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

I too have a dead Prominator in my box of dead stuff. I wonder if all it needs is a new flash chip soldered in?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

No problem using WIN8, it also runs on WIN2000. Basically from WIN98 up, however, Tuner Pro needs XP and up.

RBob.

lakeffect2

Got it Rbob. Thanks This info gives me more choices.

I'm very much looking forward to getting the EBL p4 unit The learn function in itself will be of tremendous help.

What GM spend $ millions on with test tracks, dynos and lots of computer wizards, geeks and engineers, we individually are trying to do the same (or better) with laptops and butt-o-meters.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

What ebl flash will work best for a Crossfire 305 and Crossfire 350?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The EBL Flash system needs to be used due to the two TBI units (dual 1-bbl's). You also need to convert the edge card connectors on the harness side to the pin style connectors.

To do this can cut and splice on ends, or can cut and crimp on new terminals. Will also need the two connector shells. Email for a re-pin guide to do this.

RBob.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

I have the DCS ebl flash circuit board. Do you offer any wideband O2 sensor kits?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

OK, if you have a HAM board already can use it. We have our TT-1 WB set up.

RBob.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

Thanks