bryan623

Hey all I have been in the process of pulling the L98 350 from my 89 GTA. The motor has a ton of (almost 220k) miles on it and I honestly would rather just replace it all together instead of going down the long and possibly very costly road rebuilding it (not trying to keep the car stock anyway). So I have been shopping around for a motor and I been looking at a 454 big block. Is it possible to put this engine in a 89 GTA? Will it work with my TH700R4? also will the TPI intake fit? I want to stick with fuel injection over a carb. I seen Classic Industries has one listed (just a reference) http://www.classicindustries.com/pro...arts/hp40.html

What else will I need? Any info would be very much appreciated thanks!

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Yes your 700 will bolt to a Chevy V8.

No TPI will not bolt to a big block, any more than any other small block intake will.

Read the sticky at the top of this forum.

bryan623

You mean the sticky with over ten year old information on it? Most of that post is a jumbled mess of stuff, and I didn't see anything specifically mentioning a 454 swap. I am sorry, but this is the first time I am thinking of attempting this and that sticky is not very helpful at all.

bryan623

I searched around and most of the information here is rather old... Oh well maybe with my experience it may be better to just stick with the 350.

AlkyIROC

Your SBC intake manifold will not fit on a BBC but there are many types of aftermarket fuel injection systems that will.

SBC and BBC share the same bellhousing bolt pattern. The 454 is an externally balanced engine so it uses a special balancer and 168 tooth flexplate. If your 350 currently uses the larger 168 tooth flexplate then the BBC one will work just fine because the trans bellhousing will be large enough.

BBC motor mounts sit in the same location on the block as SBC. Since the transmission position doesn't move, the extra length of the BBC engine moves forward. This makes it a little tight between the water pump and the rad/fans. None of the SBC accessory brackets will fit so you need to buy aftermarket ones for the long block. Alternator mount, power steering mount etc.

Your single most expensive part of the swap will be exhaust. There are very few exhaust manifold options to use and the swap headers are not cheap. After that, the next expensive option will be a hood since it's very hard to keep the engine height low enough to fit under the stock flat hood. It will all depend on the intake system used.

Don't expect the BBC to be a simple drop in swap. It will fit but there are a lot of hidden expenses you'll never plan for. If you're willing to take the plunge then go for it. If not then it's much easier and cheaper to install another SBC. You can drop in a 434 and tell everyone it's a 305. They'll never know the difference.

bryan623

Okay thanks for the heads up! I am interested in a big block set up. I know it wont be cheap, but this is a long term plan of building the engine out of the car then dropping it in later, so I can get pieces here and there and when finished just drop it in.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

A 454 is no different from any other big block. You don't need "454" information. You need BIG BLOCK information.

90% of your issues are going to be, the exhaust. The other 10% are going to be th eaccessories on the front of the motor. (that's assuming of course, you've already written off having A/C) Focus your attention on where it needs to be, not on berating the rest of us who have already done stuff like this about how useless we are. (yes I'm married and have adult children, I'm already real damn tired of the whole "useless" deal)

bryan623

I never said the information was useless... I said it was quite old. I am not intending to berate anyone. But I don't like to dig through ten pages of information (some of which has dead links). It kinda sours my interest in trying something like this.

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

As others have said, the (SBC) TPI intake will not fit a BBC. However, to keep the factory wiring and injection, you can:

• use all of the electronics, wiring, sensors.
• add a BBC specific manifold, such as this one, with port injector bosses.
• Throttle body.
• Fuel rails.
• fuel lines
• larger injectors.
• reprogram the ECM/get a tune/burn a chip

bryan623

Nice! Thanks for the info.

AlkyIROC

A long block means you'll have a street ready rebuilt engine but it doesn't mean it will be anywhere close to doing a swap with it. Find a complete 454 out of an 80's pickup truck. All the extra bracketry required is worth the effort. An engine from the 70's will have more desirable parts such as better casting heads.

Again it all depends on your goals. A long block may seem like a good option but it's also designed as a drop in engine for a truck. Who knows what the head castings or camshaft will even be.

Buy a short block preferably with pistons to match the compression ratio you want to run with 119cc combustion chambers. Pick up some inexpensive aftermarket heads. Even aluminum heads are very affordable compared to 30+ years ago plus they'll bring the total weight of the engine down to the weight of an iron head SBC. Without knowing what pistons are in the engine, you can't get too wild with a camshaft. Select an intake/induction system.

bryan623

http://allentown.craigslist.org/pts/5096140439.html What do you guys think of this as a start?

bryan623

Theres also this. http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/pts/5102327765.html A bare block... Seems like a good starting point.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Kinda depends on what you're looking to do...

A mid-70s truck 454 SUCKS in stock trim. As-is, its compression is around 7.9:1. It's basically a tractor motor: nice grunt off the line, but runs completely out of breath at amazingly low RPMs. (like, all done at around 3000) However, it has some of the best stock heads (781 usually) and therefore makes a good platform for a rebuild. Put some pistons in it to get the compression up above 8.0:1, like maybe up into the low 9s, a right-side-up intake, and a suitable cam, and you can have a real strong runner.

For a first-timer, a bare block isn't a real good idea... price some cranks, rods, heads, etc. and you'll see REAL QUICK what I mean.

AlkyIROC

$650 for a bare block? Walk away. I wouldn't pay more than $250 for a bare block unless it was spotless, was never bored out and had a magnaflux certificate guaranteeing it had no cracks.

The complete engine for $1200 is a better deal but I see no accessory brackets for the alternator and power steering pump. You're not going to want the cast iron intake anyway since you want to go with fuel injection. The exhaust manifolds provided won't fit in an f-body.

As mentioned above, it probably has some great 781 casting oval port heads. Do some port and polish work and put in some 2.19/1.88 valves and it will perform better than expected. Doesn't look like it was ever opened up so it probably needs a complete rebuild plus new cam and timing chain set.

I would only use that as a drop in for a truck that had a blown engine. Wanting to put it into a car, I'd strip it down for a complete rebuild.

bryan623

Okay. I'll message him and see what I can do. Thanks for all the input!

bryan623

What I want to do honestly? I would like a nice sound with a little oomph and a cool looking big block under my hood to spin the tires with on occasion. This isn't gonna be a drag car to bounce off the line. Just my fun driver to cruise on down the road with.

bryan623

Just saw this one on Craigslist. http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/pts/5072232676.html
Newer motor. Would still need a rebuild like you said, but its fuel injected so probably a better start for me.

ex-x-fire

You ever consider a stroker small block? If this is the 1st time you've done anything like pulling & swapping motors, it might be a better choice.

bryan623

Yes actually I have considered both the choice of a small block (a 350 replacement) as well as a big block... I just like the idea of seeing that big monster under my hood.

bryan623

So I would like to know before I commit should I go for the 76 454 or the 96 vortec 454? Also funny thing. The owner of the 76 has a 402/408 he is possibly looking to get rid of. Said he built it for his 69 Camaro and just want to go bigger now. He thinks like me.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The earlier motor is the better one, from the standpoint of ease / expense / potential.

Beyond that, it comes down to completeness and condition - IOW, however much ELSE after you buy it, that you ALSO have to buy, to make it work.

bryan623

okay thanks for the heads up

bryan623

Been looking over some intakes and I got a question. Should I attempt to keep my emissions? I mean I want to keep it street legal, but where I live its visual inspection only. No tailpipe. So what do I need to keep and what can I do away with?

bryan623

Eh after talking with a few friends of mine I have come to the decision of just sticking with the small block 350 motor. Not sure if I want to rebuild the stock motor yet... will still probably swap it due it its very high mileage. Thanks to everyone with all the helpful input.

funkdubie

rebuild what you have if it isn't physically broken....you can do it on the cheap and still do it right. sbc parts are extremely reasonably priced and machine work should be very minimal.

having a 454 in front of a stock 700r.....it might last a week.

bryan623

Yeah... I guess I was getting in a little over my head.

AlkyIROC

Nothing wrong with the idea but no matter how much you plan, it will never be as easy or inexpensive as you originally thought. Once complete, you'll have something that most people won't realize the work involved to complete.

When I blew up the 383 in my race car many, many years ago, I decided to go with a 454. Many engines and rebuilds later, I'm up to a complete aftermarket 588. The only thing close to being OEM on my engine is a GM alternator. Everything else is aftermarket including the block. The OEM stuff is fine for the street but at my power level, none of it was surviving.