five7kid

iTrader: (14)

My son is putting together an LS1/TH400 swap for a '75 Vega using parts we had left over from previous projects. We didn't have PCM/harness/injectors, so he started looking into various options and came across this:

https://fitechefi.com/product-catego.../ls-induction/

I haven't heard them mentioned here. Apparently they've been doing self-tuning engine control and throttle body systems for awhile, and now are doing LS stuff. He said he hasn't heard anything negative said about them in his searches. He would go for the 500 HP/no trans control version.

We have HP Tuners, but aren't very proficient with it yet. He's using an MS3 cam and was going to have them send him a tune (he's done that in the past with his previous S10/LS1 clone project). This would solve a lot of issues if it does what they claim it does.

I'm not all that happy with the tune on my stroked LQ4/L92 heads/4L80E in my '57, and I'm making plans in my head for an upgrade to the LS1/4L60E in the Berlinetta. Just may consider going this route if it works out for him.

If you're starting out with no PCM/harness, or a truck engine, want to do upgrades to it (cam, heads, exhaust, injectors, etc.), and want to avoid the cost of HP Tuners or a dyno tune session, this may be a cost-effective way to go.

If it does what they say it does...

redneckjoe

My brother-in-law just put an FiTech throttle body on his truck. he's very happy with it so far. he decided to go this route and get rid of the carb because he's going twin turbo and thought it would be much easier this way.

indebt

iTrader: (1)

My buddy put it on his 406/procharged setup and likes it. He was carbed.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I'm guessing he used the throttle body setup.

indebt

iTrader: (1)

Yes he did.

Beater79TA

I only know of 2 vehicles running the LS system they introduced late last year. One is there test car 2nd gen TA. The other is a LS swapped S10 drift truck. The owner of the S10 is very happy with the system and how well it tuned itself and is planning on using it on other projects. Having talked with the team from FiTech at some SoCal events, they are a nice group of guys and appear to have solid well test products.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

That's encouraging. Consistent with what my son has found.

Might be saving up my nickels and dimes...

Red_Dragon

iTrader: (1)

Did your son end up buying this kit? I might be interested in going this route for my ls swap. Was looking at the LS standalone ecu with trans control.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

He's not to that point in his project yet.

Checked Summitracing.com today, says "Ships 06/02/17 if ordered today". Their website says, "Coming Soon". Seems to be a moving target.

naf

iTrader: (7)

Yes. They have a solid history of 'moving target' shipping. Their throttle body systems got way back ordered last year. I was in no hurry and not persistent in my follow ups with Summit (or Jeg's?) and eventually received my March order in July.

However if this LS system matches the quality and economy of their throttle body system, you'll be happy.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Jegs says, "No ETA".

I know all too well how planned delivery dates can go. I'm assuming they either have supplier issues, or have some bugs to work out.

I had heard on a Trifive forum that they have had harness issues. However, on that same forum, a member chronicled his issues with a GM LS3 525HP system that turned out to be a harness issue. And, who knows on these internet gripe sessions how much of peoples' problems were self-induced.

Guess we'll keep an eye on them.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Have a friend that just put one on his 400 SBC in his truck. It is modified (cam, hydro roller, etc) and he hadn't been able to tune a carb to make it run right (he lives across the state from me) and I suggested this. He is VERY happy. Says it runs amazing and was easy to install.

GD

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I've heard similar stories, including a TGO member. I haven't seen that their throttle body unit will work with an LS, though, or I might consider that.

redneckjoe

would he consider going with a carb intake for the LS? then you could use the throttle body unit. edelbrock has a kit with the timing control for the coils; https://www.summitracing.com/parts/e...e2-_-edelbrock

just a thought.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

He would. He ran a carb intake with elbow & factory PCM/harness on his previous LS-powered project. However, that would cost more than the FI-Tech LS package (as they are currently advertising, anyway). And would be taller (not a lot of room under a Vega hood).

I was actually thinking of the possibility of carb intake/TB system for my engine. I have plenty of hood clearance. But, again, it would cost more, and even more so since I would want transmission control as well (not an issue for him with a TH400).

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Guess I should update this thread. I actually bit the bullet this spring and got the 750 HP rectangular system for the stroked 6.0 in my '57 Chevy with 4L80E. I had the factory 2003 PCM tuned to E85 with a HiRam, and was getting tired of the E85 hassle (mostly because I was considering running the Rocky Mountain Race Week, and E85 availability wasn't assured - and my windshield wiper motor won't fit with the HiRam...). The FITech Ultimate LS system seemed like a reasonable alternative to $500 each dyno sessions that didn't do anything for cold starts or driveability.

It did take a while to get it to settle in, but it eventually started producing numbers that equaled the E85/HiRam setup. And, cold start was worlds better, and driveability was much improved. In the process I did learn to stay away from E3 spark plugs (the primary reason for it being slow to settle in).

Summary: I think this system is a very reasonable choice, especially like I said in the original post when you're starting with a take-out engine (or parts laying around like my son did). It'll also handle cam and exhaust upgrades with no hiccups or tuning expense. The 750 HP versions have dual wideband O2 (500 HP single wideband - but I believe you can add a 2nd if you like). It is available with or without electronic trans control, and can handle 24x or 58x with a simple menu choice. You don't need a laptop or expensive interface/software to tune or data log (you do need to download the data file to a computer via USB connection to read it). The harness/PCM/hand-held tuner is also available separately if you want to use your own intake/TB/injectors/etc.

Also, I mentioned my son's Vega project. It actually is probably closer to the 3rd gen situation than my shoebox (for instance, it fit under the stock Vega hood). He did also use the FITech retrofit fuel pump system. He got it running in late September, drove it on the street for a day, went to a Wednesday test & tune session where it repeated within 2 hundredths in 3 runs (amazing for a low-prep "take-it-to-the-track" night), then took it to a points race on Friday and won the thing (8 rounds to win). On Sunday he took it out again for a Fall series race, won a Wally in a "Top Performer Invitational" race from the summer series, and runnered-up in the Pro class (tranny brakes allowed, he was footbraking).

So, do I endorse the system? You bet I do! {This has been a non-paid endorsement.}

battmann

iTrader: (9)

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I've called customer support 3 times:

First time was when I was first installing it. The throttle blade set screw and spring were loose in the TB bag. I asked what the initial setting should be, they gave me a general setting to get it started. The instructions detail how to set it once you get it running, so that setting isn't critical until after you get it running.

Second time was when I was ready to start it, and it wouldn't fire. No trouble codes being set. They talked me through the initial settings and what I was seeing, it wasn't seeing the crank speed. I had put in a new crank sensor while installing the system, I was afraid I had gotten a bad one. He suggested first reinstalling the base program (which can be done from the handheld itself). After resetting the initial settings (CID, injector size, cam size, 24x or 58x, etc.), it started seeing the crank speed. After that, it fired right up. I've heard that one other person who had the same issue at initial startup.

Third time involved the TCC lockup - it didn't. He asked if I had the brake sense wire attached (I did), then asked how I set it up. The instructions just say to attach the wire to the brake switch. Turns out it is just like factory, wants to see 12v when the brake isn't applied, 0v when it is. I used a relay to do that with the factory system, but since the instructions weren't specific, took it out and just attached it to the brake light switch so that brake-on = 12v to the PCM - which was backwards. Put a normally-closed relay back in there, works fine now.

So, I wouldn't say their customer support is bad (their hours could be better), I probably spent 5-10 minutes on hold before someone picked up. But they knew what to do each time. The install documentation is what I would say is lacking.

skinny z

I was directed here by General Disorder when the the discussion around GM crate offerings (ZZ350 vs L31-R) and my approach to making this happen with my existing carb setup. I had suggested too that the proposed LS swap that may happen, might also go carb as I have what is needed to make it all work.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ong-block.html
My question to this thread is to what extent is the FiTech system self learning? (I've done zero research on this). Are there options available to download the tune to a laptop and make detailed changes? Curious on this because we've had issues with self-learning systems in that they don't offer enough flexibility when it comes to certain parts of the tune.
Thanks in advance.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

GTA matt

iTrader: (1)

I'm running their ultimate LS (70050) kit on an SBC using EFI Connections 24x kit. I've put a couple hundred miles on it and absolutely love it so far. Zero issues, driveability is great, even with a relatively large cam and manual transmission. I had to change some connector ends and repin the injectors and coils for the firing order. Fired immediately on first start with cam 3 selected. Coldest I've started it has been 30 degrees outside, and it had no issues. The only changes I've made to the tune so far have been adding a few degrees of timing, and increasing the acceleration enrichment. I'm using 2 96-97 LT1 knock sensors.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

skinny z

What kind of cam timing are we talking here in terms of the computers self learning capabilities? Overlap, LSA, ICL, Duration?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Their cam choices are 1 thru 4, with 1 being stock, 4 being wild. My cam is .621"/.621", 294/302 adv, 234/242 @ .050, 114+4 LSA, 110 ICL (403 cid). They told me that was a "2".

My son has an MS3 in a stock LS1. He started with "2" as well.

If that gives you some idea about how much cam they can handle.

Red_Dragon

iTrader: (1)

Hey five7kid, this is the last thing I need to work on yet for my fitech set-up. I already have the normally closed relay but you wouldn't happen to have any pictures of the wire on the brake light switch you tapped into for this would you? I was looking around and trying to see what I could tap into for the brake switch accessory wire from the harness.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Note what I said earlier:
So the brake light switch wire I used for the FiTech system isn't the same as our 3rd gens.

However, you should be able to find a wire that is powered when the brake isn't depressed, and isn't powered when the brake is depressed. It's used for the cruise control, the top switch in your photo. So you don't need the relay.

Beater79TA

Installed one of the LS harness and ECM kits in April. I went into it with relatively low expectations. Mainly because we've had friends running the "self learning" Holley systems for years and they always seemed to need a tuner anyway. This one actually fired up and started learning immediately. It won't tune timing but you can set that manually either on the handheld or a laptop. But it does come with timing tables mapped to the cam settings of 1 - 4. With the dual widebands it corrected the AFR quickly and was driveable almost immediately after getting the IAC set properly. In all, I'm very happy with the system. And it's cost competitive with a factory system plus tuning.

Red_Dragon

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, must've skimmed over what you said earlier about going to the 750 HP rectangular system. I'll have to give that a try and see which wires are coming out of the cruise control on the top of the picture and tap into that then. Good to know I won't need the relay. Thanks for the info!

Red_Dragon

iTrader: (1)

That's a nice GTA you have there! I was looking at that Facebook link you have, what kind of exhaust do you have on the car? I was able to get my car to start right away as well with the FiTech system but haven't taken it for a ride yet and still having some troubles with idle.

Beater79TA

We have Hawks/Stainless works 1 7/8 inch headers to a custom Y pipe to a modular rear section. There is a 3 bolt flange just past the axle to allow for quick changes of the muffler section. For locations where we want loud to draw a crowd to the autocross area we run pieces from a Dynomax kit that had a muffler delete pipe with 2 Black Widow Widowmaker 10 mufflers (1) on each tailpipe. That setup meters 107db at WOT. The other muffler option is a Magnaflow crossflow stock replacement with Dynomax race bullets on each tip. That one meters 95 db at WOT and is used for tracks with sound limits like Laguna Seca and the Corvette Museum track in Bowling Green.

I may eventually have it completely redone with dual 2.5 inch out the back with multiple muffler options to meet sound. But not yet.

The red GTA doesn't run the FiTech system. It has a 0411 PCM from a 2002 Camaro in it. The next engine I build for it will likely use the FiTech system. The FiTech went on the grey Camaro we built to run west coast events while the GTA is on the east coast. Mechanically they are identical with the same motor and transmission specs.