Passmenow

New to this forum, just checking the forums as I am considering and researching a 3rd gen smog legal/stock street car.

Meanwhile I picked up this Camaro vintage race car last summer.
It was road raced in 88 and 89 in the Trans Am series and a few IMSA GTO races as well.
It is being restored for Vintage racing.
With luck this summer I should have in car video of testing and vintage racing.
Fwiw the only production Camaro parts on it are the roof and tail lights.
Cheers Mike


Here it was back in the day, Jerry Kuhn's Camaro #10.

3rd gen fans might like this video.

BIG_MODS

iTrader: (9)

Nice tease but you need to tell us some specs and share more picture

You have any current pictures? Did you buy it complete with engine or just roller?

Engine / trans?

9" or Quickchange? 3 link and watts?

Fuel cell in the passenger seat?

Whats it weigh?

Steel roof but the rest is glass?

16x12 wheels?

Dscott

Super cool. So the car in the pics above is the Exxon car in the other pics?

Heres my build, its not a thirdgen but....https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/thir...ar-nascar.html

Passmenow

BIG MODS here's latest...

The body is off at the moment, I'll share some photos in a week or so.
It's being restored to a point in time 1989 when it raced Trans Am and IMSA GTO.
That will make it eligible for Vintage racing on the west coast.
http://www.historictransamimsa.com/member.html

It was a complete car when I got it.
Started and ran fine but would pop out of reverse.
I wanted to do the typical track prep service before I tested it.
Then we found it had the history needed for vintage racing.
It came with several body parts from the 88/89 season.
See the front end photo with the large O for IMSA GTO class.
So now we are halfway through returning to 1989 Trans Am/IMSA GTO spec.

Engine is a 358 that next week gets a valve job and springs minimum.

The transmission is a Weisman 5 speed. http://www.weismann.net/imsa.html
We rebuilt it and geared for the west coast tracks, 145mph top speed.
So it should be fine for Coronado, Monterey, Sonoma and my local track Chuckwalla.
While we were in the trans found someone had lost one of the mainshaft spacers...
In its place was a piston ring from a lawnmower engine. lol
This trans has the transfer gears on the back, like a quick change.
So changing the final drive ratio is not too difficult.
This trans requires no clutch on the up shifts, just on the down shifts.
Kind of like this...Road America is on my bucket list.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynxCq...zXfIbmssh46Q0w

Same time we installed a new 7 inch flywheel/3 disc clutch and kept the old one for a spare.

It had an aluminum driveshaft but I was advised to replace that with steel.
Too many aluminum driveshaft failure stories, one driver lost his elbow.
Another had all the rear suspension points rip out when his driveshaft failed at speed.
Then he way "just along for the ride".

4 link rear suspension.
Rear end is a Winters aluminum center section (non quick change) with 4.11 and Gleason diff.
Gleason link. http://members.rennlist.com/951_racerx/ps84gleason.html

Alcon brakes all around with front cooling ducts/water sprayers.
Dual brake master cylinders with balance bar.
It came with brake fans too, save those for the car show.

Cockpit adjustable blade type sway bars front and rear.

Fuel Cell is in the back with the dry sump tank.

It's right at 2750lbs without driver, 2700lbs was the min wieght back in the day.

Steel roof as per rules rest of body is Kevlar.
We replaced a dented door, cracked rear bumper and cracked hood.
http://derhaagmotorsports.com/servic...s/default.html
The Kevlar is lighter and will not rip or tear/rip/split at speed if damaged.
The car came with all the molds except the rear bumper, but those are still in storage in the mid west.

BBS wheels just restored with new hardware.
BBS sells the bolts cheap, what a surprise.
Fronts 16x13, rears 16x14.

Bad news is Goodyear has discontinued my size bias bly slicks.
I have a few new sets to get through the year.
Hoosier makes a similar size slick but they are a couple of seconds slower a lap.
Avon in England might make a 6 ply slick to replace the discontinued GY, fingers crossed.
Slicks front are 25x13-16 rears are 27x14-16 inch rim.
Photo of 911 slicks on left, Camaro slicks on right.

Next couple weeks we are replacing all hardeware with aircraft spec bolts with the correct length shoulders and safety wire holes.

Should have some photos in a couple weeks when we start final assembly.
No tease intended just prefer to share photos when its a little more complete.

I'm thrilled and feel I'll never have a need for more race car.
fwiw here some in car video of my old 911 at a vintage race last fall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4u-Jg4jssw

Here is last year's winner at the Sonoma Trans Am vintage races.
I'd be happy with a top ten.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHna5rw4CVs

If you read all this and opened all the links I owe you a cold one.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Pull molds off the body panels this is my dream car... I would kill to graft that body on a stock street camaro and run some real tires

Passmenow

Yep that's how it looked when I got it.
Dig your hot rod, left a comment on your thread.
This summer we need in car video of you ripping it up on a track day.

Passmenow

Call Derhaag and ask about the widebody Camaro parts.
Just need 2 rear quarters and a bumper.
Have them done in fiberglass to save a few $$.
If I had a quarter mile Camaro I'd consider it, might add a little drag on the big end.
http://derhaagmotorsports.com/servic...s/default.html

BIG_MODS

iTrader: (9)

You owe me a beer

There are millions of aluminum driveshafts out there aren't failing. Is there something special with the driveshaft for the Weisman? I noticed on the pic from their site that there is a 4 footed axle flange on the rear of the trans instead of just a spline for a slip yoke. So does it require a driveshaft that plunges between u-joints?

bad **** car. Please update the thread as you build

Dscott

You owe me a beer too....

IIRC those 310s made about 700hp back in the day. Are you still making that power? Is it a race gas engine?

Reason I ask is the guy I have that helps me with the chassis set up on my car from Richmond Va who races in the V8 Stockcar series says as far as an engine goes I should "just put a Sb2 in it and be done with it" (it used to have one, I still have all the dru sump stuff) These things start at 750hp and go to 840/850, thats A LOT of power on a 10" tire. But the whole race gas $20/gal have to buy and store your own in drums thing seems like a big pain. A pump gas motor seems so much simpler. Its going to be just a fun track day car maybe quasi street legal. You have any input on that?

Passmenow

For me the gain in performance was not worth the risk.
Kept the aluminum shaft for a spare.
Basic driveshaft with spicer joints.
I'll post more detailed photos once its out of the fab shop and in the clean room for final assmembly.
I got a cold one for ya, you earned it!
Nice compliment too, thank you.

Passmenow

It's a 110 race gas engine and last I checked gas was $10 a gallon.
110 makes the car and garage smell so sweet.
I agree drums are a pia and I'd need one a weekend.
Fortunitly most the road race tracks have the card reader pumps with 110 leaded or 100 unleaded.

We plan to get a baseline dyno run before we test/track it this spring.

I do have a buddy with a Nascar track car that has a 550hp pump gas motor.
Runs great and he has no regrets.
If I were driving on the street I'd want a pump gas motor.
Just too expensive at $10 per gallon on the street.

I better get a six pack, thanks for your interest.

Passmenow

Moved the car into the clean room for final assembly.
It was accepted to the Sonoma Historic races this spring.
http://generalracing.com/
Engine is out for a valve job and to replace the dry sump hoses.
All bolts are being replaced with AN quality safety wired hardware.

Passmenow

I needed some Sonoma seat time before the vintage races...
so rented a seat in a Trans Am for the Sears Pointless LeMons race.
http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/

RS Chris

I...HATE...YOU. Super jealous btw.

hotrodln

hey i loved the old vintage lime rock videos- i might have even been at that race in 1988. i used to go there all the time as a spectator....now i go there to run my 87 in club events. good luck with the car!

BIG_MODS

iTrader: (9)

yeah, I've always wanted to run a lemons car too



Those rod end upper ball joints scare me... I'm not the biggest critic when it comes to rod end usage but I woundn't use them in that location for anything that will get abused. I recommend getting a new set of upper a-arms with a spherical bearing or ball joint.

Passmenow

Guys glad you like the car.
I will post more photos in the next few weeks as it takes shape.

Big Mods I dig your Camaro too.
I agree with you that stronger options are available.
Those upgrades could be debated if they are necessary or safer or lighter to provide less unsprung weight.
Stronger AN quality bolts spec’d with correct length shoulders are critical in single shear applications.
I have peace of mind that we are starting with all new and correct AN spec’d hardware.

Historic racing is particular about upgrades.
The Basic Requirements for T/A- IMSA Group rules addresses such an upgrade.
http://www.historictransamimsa.com/join.html
#7. It must present well. It needs to be run as it was, not enhanced with newer technology.

I will provide some close ups of the suspension when it’s complete.
A lot of thought goes into how a road race car suspension and chassis absorbs a hit.
Some pick up points appear light and are made to break away so damage to the chassis is limited and repairs can be made quickly at the track.
I am comforted by the fact that Protofab built cars have a good history of reliability, in fact winning many Trans Am and IMSA races.
Also I won’t be driving it near as hard or punishing it in a 3 hour long IMSA race.

Another angle unique to top level Historic racing is that the current owner and driver should remain anonymous.
My name will not appear on the car or on the hero banner/description board placed in front of the Camaro in the pit area.
The Hero board contains information on the record of TA and IMSA races this car competed in during the 88 and 89 seasons.
The original driver’s name will appear on the car as it did back in the late 80s.
We are just caretakers of these cars and choose to preserve them to a point in time.

BIG_MODS

iTrader: (9)

That’s all well and good, but I don’t care what the rules are if I don’t think something is safe I’m going to fix it. It’s your **** is in the seat and going home in one piece should be the priority.

I haven’t read the rules but I’m guessing that they would allow upgrades to safety equipment since I’m sure racecar safety has evolved a ton in the last 25 years. To me a critical component like this is worthy of a safety improvement. So long as you don’t change the geometry I can’t see how it is an performance upgrade,,,, unless you consider that the peace of mind is worth some time on the track :-)

I’m not so concerned about the fastener that goes through the rod end into the spindle, my concern would be the rod end itself failing in the exposed threads adjacent to the jam nut. Rod ends are made to be loaded in tension, not bending or shear.

Check out this vid of Mike Skeen in a World Challenge Vette at VIR running with some big HP Trans Am Mustangs. One of the Mustangs has a suspension failure partway through the race and you can see the effects. Not something I’d want to leave to chance.

Passmenow

Big Mods I hear you loud and clear.
It all comes down to what amount of risk you are willing to accept.
I watched your video but since that car is not the same chassis as mine I question its relevance?
Skeen’s driving and his car were worth listening to, music to my ears.

I replaced the aluminum driveshaft with steel b/c my competitors have shared stories of horrific failures.
One failure resulted in a driver losing his elbow and the other had his rear suspension rip out at speed.
Still there are many that will strongly debate that an aluminum driveshaft is safe.

Yes Historic racing on the west coast is limited to cars as they were raced in the day.
At a historic race your will see a lot of cool old original race cars with little to no modern safety features.
I would not race an open cockpit 1930 Bugatti but I still think they are pretty cool to watch race.
I’m also glad they are not cobbled up with modern roll cages or disc brakes and ABS.

Did you know there is a historic NASCAR vintage class for drum brake cars only.
The class was created because before disc brakes all race cars had drum brakes.

Most Porsche 935/917/910/908s are still raced with their original aluminum frames and aluminum roll cages.
An exception was one 935 owner I met that did replace the aluminum cage with steel so it would provide protection too.
I feel good that my car has a very safe cage for adequate driver protection.
On this board some question if they should run 10s without a cage, that’s a no brainer in my mind.

Here is a Mustang video with same design chassis as mine.
I just dig the sound of the clutchless shifts…

You Tube

Passmenow

A little history about the Protofab Camaros.
http://www.historictransamimsa.com/p...ack_060986.pdf
More history on the IMSA GTO Camaro race cars.
http://alex62.typepad.com/imsablog/2...e_big_ste.html

Getting closer, body is out for paint.

Doug Phillips

More beer here! You better just ship an container to Canada for us. Hope to see Doug's car out this summer, and yes our race fuel at Mosport is $4.25/litre so it is up there. We have been hauling fuel from south of the border but my motor was just refreshed so I changed things up for pump gas and have more power too.

I was just i San Diego golfing and drove through Coronado. What do you use for a track there? Is it on base?

Passmenow

We can all agree on more beer. lol
Good luck getting Doug's car out there, the season is starting now!

Correct the Coronado track is on the Navy North Island Navy base.
Its a once year event held late September on the Navy's runways and taxiways.
I was stationed on the base 80/82 as an air traffic controller so racing on the airport/base is really special to me.

Our closest dedicated race tracks are 2 or 3 hours away.
Big Willow, Streets of Willow, Chuckwalla and the California Speedway roval.

Planning a wheel dyno tune minus body with the Camaro in the next couple of weeks. I'll try to get some video.

Passmenow

Looks like a few 3rd gen Camaros will be at the Monterey historics this summer.
This old Camaro was just accepted too.

-------------------------------------------
Hello,

I am extremely pleased to confirm that your car has been accepted to participate in this year’s Rolex Monterey Motorsports Reunion, August 15-18.

Our mission is to preserve the integrity of vintage racing and your efforts in this area are greatly appreciated. This is the defining characteristic of the Rolex Monterey Motorsports Reunion and we appreciate the time and energy that you take to ensure that your car is period correct and authentically prepared.

Additional information and an invoice will be forthcoming to ensure your experience is first-rate.

Best,

Gill Campbell
CEO & General Manager

Zed/28

iTrader: (7)

Wow ! Congrat's on being accepted . Looking forward to seeing her on the track soon. Keep the updates coming with more pics !

Passmenow

got ya covered neighbor.

Passmenow

The Camaro's 2013 schedule, over 20 days of racing.
Hope it's reliable.
Be sure to visit if you see us at the track.
Just ordered a driveshaft from http://www.dynotechengineering.com/
Seamless steel 3 inch diameter .083 wall.
1350 joints front and rear.

May 17/18/19 Sonoma Historics. http://generalracing.com/

June 15/16 Laguna Seca, Legends of Motorsports. http://www.hmsausa.com/events/next.html

July 19/20/21 Road America, The Hawk. http://www.roadamerica.com/Races/RaceInformation.asp?id=244

July 27/28 Denver Race against Kid’s Cancer. http://rmvr.com/event/2013-race-against-kids-cancer/

August 10/11 Laguna Seca Pre reunion http://www.mazdaraceway.com/race-schedule/monterey-pre-reunion-schedule

August 16/17/18 Laguna Seca Reunion. http://www.mazdaraceway.com/rolex-monterey-motorsports-reunion

September 20/21/22 Coronado Vintage races. http://www.hmsausa.com/events/next.html

October 25/26 Miller http://www.nasaproracing.com/event/1596

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

TGO car of all time right here in this thread...

Passmenow

on that note I have replaced every consumable.
Which created a good spare package.
our luck after a complete valve job before reassemble we found a crack in the engine block.
So a new a new block then a wheel dyno.
Did I mention the spacer we found in the 5 gear weisman that was actaually a piston ring for a lawn mower engine.
http://www.weismann.net/imsa.html
since fixed with some help.

Javier87z28

iTrader: (1)

Beautiful car man keep the updates coming

Zed/28

iTrader: (7)

Drive the wheels off of it and enjoy a great piece of history !

Passmenow

thanks guys, I just hope its reliable.
Here is our plan.
fwiw new motor just arrived.
Builder estimates 600hp to 675hp at the flywheel 8k rpms...wait and see.
Got a new block. http://www.worldcastings.com/product...on-blocks.html

The Camaro will be at the Dyno shop next week, if all the parts show up.
Waiting for a chromoly drive shaft.
http://www.thedynoshop.com/

If it survives the dyno we might take it to the Antique drags Altered style minus body.
Sunday April 21st Barona 1/8 mile.
http://www.baronadrags.com/
33:13 the Protofab Vette drops the hammer.

Again another test Friday May 3rd at Big Willow road course with the body on.
http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/

Then back to the dyno again for a final fine tune...
Then race it for 23 days in the next 6 months, what could go wrong?

Passmenow

Ran well at the dyno, made about what we were expecting.
Not the most powerful car in our run group...
Have to make up for it with driving skill.

Also found a sweet old Z28 that I stuffed in the garage.
1970.5 Z28 350/360 numbers matching 33k miles, fun car.

Zed/28

iTrader: (7)

Sweet ! Any more shots with the body off ? Very interested in old road race chassis design. Keep up the good work

Passmenow

I'm not a photographer so only have few cell phone shots.
Join us tomorrow at the Barona 1/8 mile.
From noon to 4 with no body, bring your camera.
Just a test day before we take it to Big Willow.

Zed/28

iTrader: (7)

I've got a busy day planned but I will try to run up there for a few minutes. I'll look you up if I can make it.

Dscott

Looking good!

Passmenow

Barona 1/8 mile photos.
Made 10 passes got another hour on the new motor.
Body gets installed this week.
Big Willow road course test in 2 weeks then off to Sonoma.
Lucky a nice guy with a nice camera sent me some photos.

Dscott

Cool! how did your tire situation work out?

Passmenow

Good for this year.
Goodyear made another run of the tires, in part to supply a South American race series.

Dscott

2K a set? HOLY S HIT!

Do you get any appearance money for going to those races??

Passmenow

no, but I like the way you think.
Body is on, corner balance and align tomorrow.
Big Willow track test Friday.
http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/page.php?id=26

Passmenow

M8 What a car....short story I get to spend the weekend watching it aggressively driven.
Legends of Motorsports Powered by HMSA
I get to share pit space with this evil black M8e with shortened m8f body work, 800hp/1800lbs dry.
It is the first event for this restored Camaro.

Zed/28

iTrader: (7)

Looks great with the body on and painted! Have fun with it !

Passmenow

Thanks one more with the front turn signal covers.

This weekend at Laguna Seca will be good practice for this August.
August the car will be run at Laguna Seca for two weekends.
In my run groups are many good cars.
Hopefully my go pro will catch some of them in action.

Fast company for an 88 third gen.

Porsche RSRs and 935s, 1982 Porsche 956, Porsche 962-117,

1988 Porsche 962-C Kremer, 1987 Porsche 962, 1982 Porsche 956,

1986 Porsche 962, 1989 Aston Martin AMR1, 1991 Mazda RX-7,

1992 Mazda RX7-92P, 1990 Mazda 787, 1988 Nissan 300 ZX,

1990 Nissan GTP, 1980 BMW M1, 1985 Ford Roush Mustang,

1985 Ford Mustang Roush, 1986 Ford Roush Mustang, 1991 Ford Mustang,

1991 Roush Ford Mustang, 1984 Mercury Capri, 1985 Mercury Capri,

1988 Ford Merkur Coupe, 1986 Protofab Camaro, 1988 Protofab Corvette,

1988 Camaro (me), Chevrolet Beretta,

2003 Chevrolet Corvette C5R, 1988 Argo JM-19c2Coupe, 1982 March 82G,
1988 Audi 200 Quattro.

Event info.
http://www.mazdaraceway.com/race-sch...union-schedule

Passmenow

Enjoyed my weekend at Laguna Seca.
The IMSA GTO Camaro performed very well.
This the first track day for it since it completed a 10 month restoration.
The new car, new track and awesome historic race cars.
Seems to have boosted my interest in track events/racing.

In the video is Robby Gordon's Whistler Mustang, 4 cylinder turbo 700lbs of torque.
Also a rare sight an Audi Quatro is a member of our group too.
In car Video from the Camaro.

The Kiwi Black Stig in his 9000cc 800hp M8E/F.
He won the Sunday McLaren race by a straightaway.
This was his Sunday morning warm up.

Zed/28

iTrader: (7)

Great in car video! Looks like she still runs well. Your picture shows 358 c.i. on the hood. Is the engine at 310 or 358 ? Curious of the race weight also. I'm looking forward to making the trip to Laguna Seca to see it run in person. Keep up the good work!

Passmenow

It turned out to be a 358, 2900lbs with driver.
Well there should be another 3rd gen like mine at Reunion.
In fact this pacwest dentist has 4 finely finished Camaros as nice can be.

This summer in El Cajon, some wednsday cruise night meet us on the Por Favor patio right along the street. A table full of Corvette/Cobra car guys.

Zed/28

iTrader: (7)

I will look for you there in a couple of weeks ! Thanks for posting up the pics and videos.

Dakota W.

OMG WANT!

Passmenow

If all goes well Friday is the start of 8 days camping at the track with 6 days of track action at the Monterey Pre Reunion and the Reunion too.

FWIW the test track is Big Willow, the long straights at Big Willow would require 165mph top speed spur gear in the quick change.
Looking forward to Big Willow again with the correct 165mph gear and not this 141mph gear seen in the video.

Big Willow test. - YouTube