Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Hello


About one year ago I had to change my wheel bearings because they made a sound and had too much play. I drove quite a few weeks with this defective bearings. I have to add that already 6-7 years ago when I had to replace the rotors for the first time, the bearings on the same side (passenger side) went bad after a year. After replacing them they at least held up for 3-4 years.


Anyway,when I replaced them again yesterday, I couldn't get the endplay right. When I did as the camaro service manual says (tighten to 16 Nm, then release and screw on handtight, then back off if necessary) I could always wiggle the rotor so that I heard a "clunk". I then let a shop do the adjustment of the end play. The guy said there was no problem... he told me that he tightened the nut much more than I did and eventually got to adjust it the right way. So I thought everything was fine but now, one year later - I didn't really realize it for a long time - the play was really bad. Every little roadbump caused a chirping / squealing sound. I was able to wiggle the wheel even while on the ground.


So I went ahead to replace the bearings and cups again. And again I couldn't manage to adjust the endplay right using the procedure out of my manual. Only when I torqued the nut harder a few times it got a bit better But unfortunately when measung with a dial indicator and pulling / pushing on the rotor, I have only about 0.01 to 0.02mm of play which is actually too little. But that's where I'm almost unable to wiggle the rotor. So when I increase the endplay I can really wiggle my rotor.


I think the shop just tigthened things too much... and only because the right way wouldn't work for some reason. I'm now assuming that my spindle is defective.


1) I took some pictures. Would be really grateful to get some comments about the spindle. It doesn't look fine in my opinion.


2) Does anyone have a spindle to sell or know where I could get one? As I understand there are no new spindles available anymore. It's the spindle from the passenger side.


Thanks a lot
Thomas


Pictures:


http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php...1460403494.jpg


http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php...1460403545.jpg


http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php...1460403578.jpg

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

Are there grooves in the spindle?... Where the inner race, whether for the inner or outer bearing, spun on the spindle?

Are new bearing (races) snug on the spindle? Or do the bearing waddle on the spindle too much?

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Well actually I can't tell for sure anymore. I cleaned the spindle and from what I can remember I didn't really feel any grooves. Also the darkened part that you can see in the picture was just, well, dark... But when I look at the picture again it still looks strange and I'm not absolutely sure about the grooves. What I can say is, that there is a little "hole" or kind of ditch that you can also see in the picture. Is this normal? I'm not talking about the groove for the washer.


What do you mean by "are the races snug on the spindle"? The races don't touch the spindle... it's only the bearings themselves which run in the races. How can I check whether they are snug on the spindle? I didn't put only the bearings on the spindle.


Is this an issue that every ordinary shop should be able to solve? I mean judging the spindle and so? This kind of bearings (inside the hub) isn't too common nowadays, is it?

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

Each bearing assembly, besides the roller bearings themselves, has an inner race and an outer race. The actual bearings ride on a race on BOTH sides.

The outer race is driven / pressed into the hub. This is a "removable", separate piece from the bearing assembly. This piece does not move in relation to the hub.

The inner race is the part that sits on the spindle. During normal operation, this should not move on the hub. It is loose enough to install by hand (does not need to be pressed on). But, it should not be TOO loose, where the "bearing", actually the race, is floppy on the spindle. If the "bearing" seizes, it will grab the inner race, spin it on the spindle, wearing, damaging and ruining the spindle.

My question was to find out if one of the inner or outer bearings had spun on the spindle, causing the race to wear a groove on the spindle that would make new bearings (inner races) not fit tightly enough.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Just to avoid a misunderstanding: There are two boxes (wheel bearings) for one spindle. One box is the outer and the other box is the inner bearing. In each box there are two parts: The race (cup) and the bearing itself (the conically shaped part which has to be greased thorougly). I pressed the races (cups) into the hub (one on either side). So I guess when you're talking about the inner races you're actually talking about the inner side of the actual bearing which sits on the spindle, right? To check this fit, I would have to put the bearings onto the spindle without the rotor yet and see whether these are loose?


So when you put the rotor onto the spindle, there is a bit of resistance when it comes to completely seating the bearings. I experienced that... I had to push using some power and it "snapped" into place. But maybe this isn't enough of a test for looseness.


All I can say is, that one year ago, when I last changed the bearings, the spindle looked almost the same (stains). But even then I didn't manage to adjust the endplay the way the manual says. I torqued to 16 Nm a few times spinning the rotor. Then backed off until just loose and "torqued" by hand. This would always leave me on the too loose side. Don't know what my shop did as I didn't watch them.


So if there are really grooves which prevent the correct endplay, I can't do anything but buy another spindle, I guess. I wonder how dangerous it has been driving under these conditions (bad spindle) for one year.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

they ( bearings ) should slide over the spindle. almost snug..with a slight drag as you slide them down ...no hub.. just the bearings .. use a light oil and they should slide right down.. but no sloppy fall onto and off of. stuff.. and don't use anything more the 400Gt wet/dry or supper fine steelwool..to polish the spindle.
this shot is a unpolished raw steel spindle

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Well, at the moment everything is installed, so I would have to take everything apart again to test the bearings only. Also the inner bearing is behind the seal now, so I couldn't test this one at least. I'll take the car to the shop soon. I'll be able to watch the mechanic.


I used only wet sand paper (2500, so extremely fine) to sand the spindle. The scratches in the pictures were there before, though.


Is it always the spindle (damage) that would be the cause for looseness or could it also be the hub? I mean, actually it shouldn't because the bearing cup is new and its inner diameter shouldn't be influenced by the hub. If at all it would be the cup moving inside the hub.

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

Which spindle nut do you have? The very last years for 3rd gens, GM used a thinner nut & a tin cap with multiple slots for the cotter pin.For a more finite adjustment on the bearing lash.Versus just the six slots on the earlier (taller) nut.Which sometimes is either just too loose or just too tight.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Hm, well at least I have a 1988 Camaro. When you're talking about the very late 3rd gens wouldn't that be after 1990s?

I'm not sure about the nut... I don't think I ever had a tin cap (which you mean would be to fix the nut instad of using the nut itself and the cotter pin?). And maybe I have to repeat that the standard procedure from the service manual didn't work. As it is now, I had to tighten the nut with a wrench to get rid of the looseness (and I can still wiggle it a tiny bit). So it's already not as it should work the way the manual says. I had to torque it harder than 16 Nm (otherwise I would have even more looseness) and I had to tighten it not only by hand and then back it off a bit. So I don't know whether the nut could really be the problem here.

Another thing I noticed while driving the car now. I think there's still too much of a noise (clunk or so) when going over little bumps or manhole covers. Not only on the side where I replaced the bearings. It feels like the front is altogether a bit instable.. hard to explain. I hope the mechanic can tell me more about the condition of the front end. At least the balljoints, shocks and springs have never been replaced, they're still the first ones. I replaced the steering linkage one and half a year ago, though.

novaderrik

what brand of bearings did you use?

Timken is the best, SKF is almost as good... anything else is junk that might not be made right..

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Hi


The first bearings, when the rotors were replaced 6 years ago, were SKFs. I put Timkens in. I didn't change the rotor.


By the way: When you buy new rotors, I hear that the races are already installed. Can you use these races without any problems with Timken or SKF bearings or is it better to replace them with the ones that come with the bearings?

novaderrik

i won't trust the races in a set of rotors if i have new bearings. it's so easy to put in the races that come with the bearings in that it's kind of dumb not to use them.