ZenShaman

Hi thanks in advance to everyone that replies I really need genuine advice and not money hungry mechanic noise.

So, I'll make it quick - I took my car 89 Pontiac Formula 5.0 Auto stock as stock can get, to a Chevrolet dealership Auto Shop assuming Id get more knowledgeable service (which I did tbh)
They do a fuel tank and fuel filter remove and replace and then notice my TPS is creating a code and they adjust it to clear the code.
Now, the TPS is right next to this Black Saucer thing in the engine, I forgot its name. It has vacuum lines plugging into it and coolant hoses as well if you know the one Im talking about.
Ive had the car for years its never had a leak there. Keep that in mind.
I get the car back I drive it home fine.
Next day Im on the freeway and I hear a loud pop and steam engulfs the entire front of the car - car dies while moving.
Pull over, wait for smoke to finish, it came from the Black Saucer thing.
I call auto zone take a pic send it to the guy whom answered the phone and he tells me what it is - its like 12 bucks or something. I get a ride buy it return to my car to put it on and realize the difference between the one on my car and the new one. It has these nipples that the hoses wrap around, where as mine are completely blown off.
I replace the part, car cranks but wont start.
I worry overheat cylinder damage and I have the car towed back to the dealership.
I get to the dealership and they tell me that the black saucer thing most likely had a crack in it, when I was on the freeway at WOT I caused it to burst and break the plastic nipple allowing the hose to shoot off and spray coolant all over the engine resulting in the steam i saw. The car was bone dry of coolant as well.
I actually am really calm - fully expecting the man to see it as i see it, that this part that cracked just HAPPENS to be RIGHT NEXT to the part they worked on, and was never cracked before (ive been at WOT more than a few times lmfao) so obviously they break, they buy. No.
He tries to foot the bill - over 6 thousand dollars, to me.

Since then Ive seen a few mechanics and they all sing the same song
I either have to spend more money than the engines worth to rebuild it
Or I have to replace it
The engine has 50-63 psi in cylinders 1, 3 and 5.
They wanted to charge me for a leak down test.

Now no one will give me the parts list, they insist they cant guess at all, and would have to tear it down to know for sure.

My thing is this, Ive taken engines apart and put them back together plenty of times, so does this really sound like a new engine situation?
Because im broke as hell. I paid that Chevy dealership $1300 just to break my car.

Because if this isnt a buy a new engine situation, and you guys think its possible that the engines not totally screwed and how to check thatd save me.

So what im really asking is, based on this context, is low compression due to overheat the end of the world? Or is it possible to salvage my baby!
I mean if its just gaskets (god willing!) i know im fine, but im no expert just been dirty a few times is all and im not dumb. So are there parts i should check specifically? Are those expensive? Must they be in box or can I find them at my local yard? And is there a guide (ive searched!) that would help me in tearing my engine down to get to my valves and rocker arms etc

AlkyIROC

Even I won't guess at what might be wrong without doing diagnostics on it. No shop will do diagnostic work for free so if you really want to know what wrong with the engine, you need to pay for the work.

The cost and time of a proper rebuild normally exceeds the cost of a basic stock replacement engine. Doing patchwork repair may not identify the root cause and money spent doing repairs will usually be wasted when you need to fix or replace again. Any good shop can do an engine swap in a day.

Spend the money for a basic stock engine replacement. The engine should also come with a longer warranty which you won't get with repair work.

ZenShaman

I hear ya, and I really am considering just doing an engine swap,
but I gotta know all the angles. I mean, imagine if it was just the gaskets.
Its most likely not, but thats an example of how simple it could be.

I just dont get why I cant buy some junkyard engine and use it for donor parts?
And I dont want to pay someone to test, arent there ways I can test myself?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like Black Saucer Thing = heater control valve

As far as it breaking right after they worked on it, remember, it's PLASTIC. It's over 25 yrs old. Just like anything under the hood that YOU touch that crumbles to dust, the same thing can happen to ANYONE ELSE working under your hood. Yeah it SUCKS, don't get me wrong; but that doesn't somehow make it "their fault". "WOT" makes not the slightest difference. Age, heat, and overall general plastic finite-design-lifetime crappiness, are the culprits.

First thing I'd suggest is, QUIT TAKING THE CAR TO "MECHANICS" AND "DEALERS". Mechanics are in the business of fixing cars for people who are unable or unwilling to do so themselves; and the standard advice for such people is, if the cost of repairs exceeds the cost of a car note, then quit the repairs already, and take up a car note instead. If you can't/won't fix the car yourself, then you have no business driving an ANTIQUE. That may not be what you want to hear, but it's THE TRUTH, so like it or not, ya gotta deal with it.

Second thing to know is, "dealers" are in the business of SELLING NEW CARS. A dealership is quite literally a "store"; same as an appliance store, a clothing store, or what have you. They offer enough service to keep new cars working through their warranty period, and precious little beyond that. Just like the store you buy your shirts at: you don't take them an old wore-out shirt and expect them to sew new buttons on it. To them, a car older than about 3 yrs is an ancient ragged-out hooptie and not worthy of their time and effort. But of course they can't come right out and tell you that; so instead, when you bring a car to them that they deem in that category, they simply quote you the most OUTRAGEOUS POSSIBLE amount of money to fix it. That way, you'll leave, and not bother them. Which of course is precisely what they did to you: you just misinterpreted the message, thinking they actually WANT to fix it for that price. They don't. They're telling you, in their own subtle way, get that steaming old POS out of my face, we don't want it in here. Again, like it or not, that's just THE WAY IT IS, and all the righteous indignation and innocence in the world won't change it.

You've got an antique car, LITERALLY. In most states, any car 25 yrs old or older, is OFFICIALLY an antique. Right now, since 2015 cars are out, your car is OFFICIALLY 26 yrs old. Guess what...

It's not realistic to hallucinate that "mechanics" can know, to a sufficient degree of certainty, exactly what's wrong with your ANTIQUE before they tear it down that they will be willing to quote you accordingly and even hand you a parts list. It's entirely possible that NOTHING is wrong with it at all. It's also possible that all it needs is head gaskets. It's also possible that every casting in it (block & heads) is warped to the point that it would be impossible to seal it back up. It's even possible that it's totally worn out, such that even if whatever damage was or wasn't done to it in the coolant mishap was restored to like new, SOME COMPLETELY OTHER part of the engine might be ready to die, and in fact will die before it gets all the way out of the parking lot from fixing that other. Just like, in fact, your heater control valve did after they changed the fuel pump; there's like a million parts in that car, and like 900,000 of them are basically wore out and ready to fail at any moment, same as the HCV did. They simply have no way of knowing any of that without looking inside, same as any of the rest of us.

What I'd suggest you do, is buy a set of tools, and start learning how to work on it yourself. That's the ONLY realistic way to keep a car this old on the road running reliably enough to use as transportation (as opposed to, as a pretty-day toy).

As far as the heater control valve breaking, people post on this forum almost EVERY SINGLE DAY about theirs breaking. Being plastic and old and all that, it's VERY common. INEVITABLE even. Kinda like they say about hard drives... there's 2 kinds: ones that have failed, and ones that WILL fail sooner or later. Yours just changed from the one category to the other, that's all. You're not the first and won't be the last. Most of the time people QUIT DRIVING THE CAR the very instant steam starts coming out from under the hood, in which case, simply replacing the valve (and of course the coolant) is all that's required. If in fact you stopped the engine right then and there, there's almost certainly no permanent harm done.

To fix the no-start, I'd recommend replacing the distributor cap and rotor, which are most likely, wet. Get the car to run BY YOURSELF - no "dealerships", no "mechanics", just YOU (and maybe a friend or 2 with car knowledge to help you and guide you on the way, and of course this forum) - and see where that takes you. Personally I doubt you need any of the rest of what you're being told, this situation is simply too common and everyday and harmless for any of that other to be particularly likely. Possible, of course; just, not too likely.

ZenShaman

I appreciate the reply very much, even if it did come with a tone of arrogance.
You should know I replaced the entire AC system myself, the radiator, waterpump, the starter solenoid, the distributor and the stem and plugs and cables and throttle body and installed a FIRST TPI setup. I adjusted the timing and alignment and so much I cant remember. I said Im no expert, that doesnt mean Im a novice. I said I WANT to do it myself, the only reason I went to a mechanic (which I said I hate doing) is because living in an apartment community its kind of hard to drop a gas tank and drain it and diagnose your filter. Most people dont like smelling gas.

What I asked (albeit in a bit of a ramble unfortunately) was A) does it sound like my engine is blown or is worth trying.
B) where to find a proper tear down guide aimed at low compression diagnostic and repair
and C) what parts to look for and how to determine their condition.
With all of that information I could certainly more easily "handle it myself"
So unless you can answer those questions please dont respond with obvious advice.
No disrespect but Im working full time and i try to work on his car full time.
You just told me to sell it because thats the hard truth and Im too lazy to work on my car. Even though I do work on it myself and you do not know me at all. So im a bit irritated.
Stay classy.

ZenShaman

Okay, so you think low compression in cylinders 1,3 and 5 isnt why the cars not starting? You think it just needs a new distrib cap and rotor? IDK it cranks, but doesnt start so maybe. I just fig'd without 80% of the whole left bank it just didnt have enough power to stay on.

So you dont think its that bad nice to know. Im gonna keep research tear down guides, and just try to diagnose it myself and if its reasonable im fixing it. Why pay for a brand new engine when I have numbers matching? I dont get that mentality.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Ignore the "compression test" results for the time being.

A dist cap & rotor is like $10 or something. Would you rather whine about "compression test", or spend $10 and get your car back working again?

I don't intend to be arrogant. All I am, is REALISTIC and TRUTHFUL. Sorry if reality or truth seems arrogant to you: unfortunately it has a way of doing that, when it doesn't agree with some kind of sense of entitlement or wounded ego or whatever. Things ARE what they ARE, and they don't too much care how we feel about it. That is, I can walk up to my non-working car and whine as much as I want about all the excuses why I lack the testicular fortitude to tackle some project, and it won't suddenly have sympathy for me and repair itself.

"Numbers matching", with the car you have, won't even buy an extra cup of coffee. Only the VERY TIP TOP OF THE LINE BEST OF BREED of these cars will ever have ANY prayer of that making ANY difference to their "value"; all of that stuff pretty much went out the window starting in model year 73 or so. The car culture that produced it came to an end at that point, never to return. While I'm not saying "throw your existing engine away and buy another", what I'm REALLY saying is, these cars simply don't have "that kind" of value. Not these, or any others of the same age. Not Mustangs, Vettes, or anything else. It's not about the cars themselves; it's about the culture around them. Don't let that sort of thing enter your calculus, it will lead you astray every time. Again, not trying to be mean, insulting, arrogant, or whatever else it seems like, just like when your dad (yes I have adult children, and I'm guessing you're probably about college age, yes I could be wrong, but am I? really? ) tries to pass on his hard-won knowledge of all his years; it's just THE WAY IT IS. Don't try to fight it, you will LOSE every time.

What I'm telling you about what you've been told by all these "mechanics" is, they have AGENDA all their own, which, while not "dishonest" or any of that, is also NOT in your best interest (or more specifically, the best interest of fixing your car; which may or may not ACTUALLY be YOUR best interest). Your best interest right now is served by IGNORING all that drivel and noise, and LEARNING about your car.

If I was the betting kind (which I'm not... I financed a recent graduate degree by teaching college statistics, i.e. working a second job while attending school, while working full-time in a job that required about 40% travel at the time, if that helps you understand my point of view on such things...) I'd bet that there's nothing wrong with the internals of your motor, and furthermore, that if you REALLY want to fix it, you'll quit whining about "it's hard" and "I'm so busy" and you'll FIND A WAY. As someone once famously said, Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.

So:

A: No it does not sound like your engine is "blown".
B: You don't need to worry about that until it's running again.
C: Worry about if or when you find that anything is actually in need of replacement.

I would ABOVE ALL, NOT tear down ANYTHING, until the car was running again and I could see if there was anything actually wrong with it.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Sofakingdom gave you the best advice anyone could offer when he said to stay out of the dealerships , and in MY opinion the reason is this ;

When you take a 25 year old car to the dealership , especially one that is not 100% mint condition , the dealership don't have the Ace mechanic who rebuilds aircraft carriers on his days off fix your car , , OHhh NO ! They have the newby mechanic whose still tryin to prove his worth to the dealership try to fix it . And as we all know , some newbie mechanics may be OK but then you get the hack who'd be better off as a banker or something . I agree also that it's pure unfortunate coincidence that your heater control valve went out as it did , and to be honest you'd have to have driven it plenty long enough steaming to cook the engine (provided it IS cooked) Didn't you notice huge coulds of steam behind you as you drove ? Anyway , yes also to getting it back running and do further diagnosis from there , a compression test as you know being the most vital .

I wish you the Best of luck with it to NOT be a cooked engine .