Azrael91966669

i just installed an 85 700r4 as i needed a replacement "cracked bellhouseing" and this one was free.

the trans seems fine for every other gear but it anything above 20 mph will not downshift back to 1st
it only drops to 2nd at a very low Rpm .

at 20 mph when it does downshift it drops it to 2500 or so into 1st
1st gets nearly to 45 mph before it shifts to 2nd around 5600 rpm .

i would really like the car to shift like it did with 91 trans would down shift at 36mph instead of 20.

currently 25 rolls kinda suck as i feel it should have downshifted.

i guess even the 2nd gear downshifts are off only downshifts below 60 when it used to downshift at 65 to pass would hold 2nd till 79 80

now it only downshifts at a max of 60

i dont want to change the wot upshifts . they are correct .
i want to change the wot downshift points . can this be done?

is this a 85 trans issue? or something else i can look into?

engine is 91 lb9
TV cable is set correctly but its a 91 TV cable
fuild level is correct
im useing the Tq converter from my 91 4L60
car has 3.23 gears with the correct speedo gear

performabuilt

Swap the govenor from the 93 unit to the present unit and that may get you there.

Azrael91966669

its a current unit is 85 old unit is 91 4l60 so says the "service manual" not a 93

thought the govenor only dictates the upshift points ?

im needing the trans to Kick down into lower gears a little higher then its currently doing
will the govenor do that?

i dont what the trans to shift any higher already shifting at 5600 in 1st
top of 2nd is 5400 wont changing the goveror make it shift higher or lower

im just confused by what causes downshifts
the trans came from an 85 tpi z28 with 3.23 gears i had figured the shift points would be the same or better since my old trans was for 91 Rs 2.73 gears

Azrael91966669

ok i swapped out he govenor and now its shifting at 4200 rpm wide open throttle and 2nd is shifting at 4000 to 3rd

the govenors weights are completly differant and the units have differant stamps on them J and C c is the 91 unit has 4 weights outer 2 are thin inner a little thicker but the same springs
J 85 unit has only 2 weights both are triangle shaped

down shifts are still at below 20 mph so it didnt fix the problem only made it worse buy removing 1500 of rpm range :/
governer only seems to deal with max rpm shift points all the low mid throttle shifts are the same

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

The governor plays a BIG role in part-throttle shift points, but most stock governors are calibrated to upshift about the same rpm on a stock vehicle.

Azrael91966669

the last engine i had did shift at 5100 and 1-2 with its 91 trans
this 85 trans is shifting at 5600 1-2

when i use the govenor from the 91 trans in the 85 trans .
only the full throttle shift have 1-2 and 2-3 have changed both are about 1000 rpm lower then they should be

but the part throttle shifts are the same no differance

that tells me the govenor only deals with setting the max engine rpm shift "redline" shifting

apperently ill be putting the 85 govenor back into the 85 trans as apperently

there is something else differant with these transmissions

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

The governor EFFECT part-throttle shifting, PERIOD!!!!!! I don't care what you think from swapping one stock governor for another. It honestly does not surprise me that one is not different than the other, the stock setups all shift south of 2,000 rpm at the lightest throttle acceleration.

Valvebody calibrations can also vary between transmissions. The higher the line pressure, typically the higher/later your shift will get. My stock governor increased nearly 1,000 rpm at WOT upshifts with a Transgo 2/3 Shift Kit. The part-throttle shifts also came up. You can alter the weights and springs on the governor to get the shift-points where you like them. Make sure the TV Cable is also correctly adjusted. I was able to EASILY change part-throttle and WOT shift point changes through small changes in the governors weights and springs.

Azrael91966669

fast the thing is even with completely differant weights on these govenors

it still is only doing a full throttle downshift below 20 mph

i am not talking about "upshifts" full throttle upshifts where changed lowered by 1500 rpm
but all other non full throttle "upshifts where at the same rpms"

also my "down shift points have also stayed the same" so im saying

the govenor is not the issue the 91 has 2 sqaure weights on each side
85 gov has 1 weight each side and there also thiner and shaped like a triangle

the springs are differant colored aswell

so why is everything about the govenor differant but yet only the redline wot upshift differant

and as i explained before my old trans had higher "down shift speeds"

ie i could be doing 30 mph floor it and it would downshift into 1st

now with the 85 trans i floor it from 30 and only get a downshift to 2nd at around 2000 rpm that isnt so bad

what is bad is flooring it from 21 22 mph instead of downshifting into 1st like i want it to it hits 2nd 1500 and has to go threw the entire gear
slower then had it shifted into 1st correctly


i was told to swap the govenor it made it worse as no changes other then lower the wot shift points

godreject

iTrader: (1)

don't mean to highjack but quick ?
what are the upshifts supposed to be at, i just recent;y replace my tranny in my 91 1-2 shift is at around 3500 way early right, downshift to 1st gear is at about 10mph could my tranny be ill adjusted off, seems like im having similar issues

Azrael91966669

35 was the highest it would downshift to 1st now with a replacement trans its 20 the highest it would down shift full throttle upshifts on mine are 5600 rpm in 1st and 5400 upshift to 3rd

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I mentioned the valve body has some potential differences, however the governor still plays a BIG part in shift-points at both part-throttle and WOT. If the springs and weights are BOTH different it is 100% possible that one governor has the same lower rpm pressure curve as the other governor. I was able to make my WOT upshifts in my van at 6,000 rpm, however even my lightest throttle shifts were around 2,200 rpm. My WOT downshifts increased as well. It sounds like something is wrong with your TV cable or TV Sleeve and Plunger. It could possibly have S.S.S., Short Spring Syndrome. A stock 700r4 should downshift to 1st as long as the rpms are under 2,000 rpm or so in 2nd gear.

I know all too well about that low-rpm 2nd gear pull with a non-downshifting 700r4 as I did it too many times to count in a 3.08 geared fullsize van. Mine was a TV cable issue that I was able to resolve with a genuine GM cable.

Azrael91966669

my cable is a gm cable that i put on when i did the Tpi swap i ordered the cable from my work when i was working at a chevy dealer

i really was hoping it was a simple fix

freind that works for trans shop told me its because the 85 and older 700s dont have a good downshift plunger something was fixxed in later in 86


he told me as long as the trans is holding up for now wait till we get my other trans bellhouseing welded jack stands dont make good trans holders when doing engine swaps lol


he took a look at the govenors as well said the one from the 85 is correct for 5500 shift point my old 91 apperently was ment for 5000
he rebuilds these all the time

apperently the downshift issue is something that cant be corrected on this trans :/

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

It CAN be...My 1983 700r4 had near INSTANT downshifts and reved to 5,500 rpm before upshifting. Its all in the spring package inside the shift valves, the TV Sleeve and Plunger and the Governor. They all have to balance out to give the correct shift timing.

TV Sleeve and Plunger is easy to swap out.

Azrael91966669

here is what i found out when i took a freinds 85 iroc out for a drive
both his car and my car have the same gears 3.23 and trans 7004r

they both suffer the same shifting issues

he bought the car new and says its done this since new

he just figured the 305 didnt have power lol



i was hoping a simple govenor swap would have corrected the problem

i do not want to mess with the upshift points at all there perfect

i only wanted the downshifts changed
i was able to change them on my lt1 wagon but its electronic

here is really all i want

when driving 35 mph if i floor it i want it to down shift into 1st
it still has 1000 rpm of range left 35mph = 4400rpm

the top if 1st is 42mph

i also want it to beable to drop into 2nd from 70 for a passing gear since 2nd hauls all the way to 80 .

currently i have to be going a max of 60 if i want it to drop down to 2nd

but i do not want to change the upshift points at all its already at 5500 for the 1-2 shift and 5400 for the 2-3 shift

if you can tell me what needs changed for this cool

if its something in the govenor is it the springs or weights

the "automatic" upshifts are they seem fine already "ie normal driving"

is there anyway to change only the downshift points and not change anything else

swapping my govenor over didnt seem to change anything but the wot upshift points

ive seen much older post on this topic but it never gets answered

"edit "

i did look up modifying the govenor for shift points but it seems the "kits" are only ment for changing the wot upshift point there not ment for changing downshifts or mid throttle shifts :/
there sold manly for people who install a new engine that say has a 6500 redline when the trans is set for 5000 there loseing to much rpm
the spring and weight kit seems to adjust that

i really wish gm wouldnt have made the tv cable also adjust the pressure would be nice to fine tune downshifts with it

Azrael91966669

finally got the car out again this for the summer

still haveing the issue

by downshift im talking about im going 15 mph i floor it it shifts "down to 1st"
and lots of wheel spin happens revs up to 5600 and shifts into 2nd around 40 and chirps.

if im going 20 mph and floor it it stays in 2nd no downshift and has to rev through the whole of 2nd gear.

i would like it to be able to shift back into 1st from 25 normal city street speed like my old trans did.

or when im on the freeway if im doing 45-50 and floor it it will shift into 2nd speed up till about 75 and shift into 3rd .

but if im driveing at say 60 and floor it it downshifts into 3rd not 2nd and its not a very good passing gear .

i would like the car to beable to downshift into 2nd from 65 would be a good passing gear still since it will take me up to 75.

i tried messing with the govener weights and all it seems to change for me is wot upshift point ie i can change it anywhere from 4900 rpm till 6200 rpm.

but the wot shift point into a passing gear is un affected

my gm manual for the trans only tells you the part throttle upshift points

ie 1-2 should be around 10mph 2-3 23mph or so 3-4 45mph or so
i dont care about part throttle points

im concerned about the full throttle downshifts for passing but with out changeing the wot upshift point as i would prefer not to over rev the engine

car has 3.23 gears 85 700r4 trans from an tpi iroc that also had 3.23 gears
my 91 trans didnt have this issue always downshifted into the best possible gear when floored

i would only like to change the max speed that the trans will downshift into a lower gear i dont want to increase wot rpm shift points as there fine as is

basicly it just always feels like the car is in the wrong gear when im below the "speed" and it shifts correctly the car hauls but im not gonna when any races per say if it wont shift to correct lower gear
ie shifting to low into the powerband

this was easy to edit on a 4l60E trans with a tuner but what changes it on a 700r4

Azrael91966669

i forgot to mention i bought a spring and weight kit for the govener ive tried all of them i cant seem to change the detent points unless i also raise the max rpm shift point ie i can raise the 1st gear max downshift point from 15 to 20 but it also lets the engine rev to 6500

ive changed out the tv plunger and sleeve to no effect

ive put it all back to stock transwise as nothing really changed

my wot shift point 1st to 2nd is 40 5500 rpm
2nd to 3rd is 70 but it shifts at a much lower rpm 4800 can i raise this with out changing the 1st gear rpm?


and i still have the downshift issue
15mph is the highest speed i can shift back into 1st but the gear runs to 40
50 is the highest speed i can shift back into 2nd gear in therory should run to 80


is there anything other then the goverener to modify i dont want higher upshifts i want it to double downshift

my tv cable is set correctly i did try to move it a tick to raise the detent speeds but as soon as i floored it the cable clicked back

basicly can you change the detent points without changing wot upshift points? if so how

ive searched the internet far and wide for this problem
most people only have this issue if there useing an aftermarket tv valve
and i am useing a stock one

the goverener adjustment kit isnt helping as as soon as you change it always changes the max rpm shift point ie anywhere from 3800-6500 and this is not something i want to change

Azrael91966669

after doing hours of searching i found some 700r4 sites

one was bowtie overdrives

it apperers my current govener is a v6 govenor wot shift points 5500-5800
my old trans uses the v8 gov wot 4200-4600 thats why i had such a drop in wot points when i swapped them


all of my other issues seem to come from the tv spring being to short from age
from the discription i seem to be suffering alll of its isses
i thought at 1st it was from me doing the tv mod but after dropping the pan and checking i never did that mod on this trans i did it on my old one


once i hunt down a tv spring and install it hopefully everything will be better

Azrael91966669

I know its an old thread but I just played around with the 6 different governors that I have collected from a ton of different cars and trucks from the local pull a part
I wanted my 1st gear shift to be around 6200 2nd gear shift point is 5800 these are done with the weights

I just got my 1st gear downshift highest it will do it is 25 and that's fine as it lets the car jam back to 1st haul up to speed and then hits 2nd at a decent rpm range
issue is to do it I had to place the heaviest springs from all of the governors I have gives me my sweet down shift at low speed and on the freeway but It comes at a cost of the cars part throttle shifts are 1st gear till 15 and holds 2nd till 35 and 3rd holds till 55 be for it will do a 4th gear shift
so that being said it part throttle upshifts late and holds the gears so the shifts are pretty spaced out

so fast355 you where correct I had to play with the springs but sadly unless you have a ton of different governors you will never have 2 of the super heavy springs they don't even come In the kits they sell
also I what I wasn't thinking about was and this is why im a jack *** i had my 1st gear shifts from 35 when i had 2.73s with this trans and its older stock governor when i swapped the gears to 3.23 that 1st gear shift must take place at a lower rpm or speed but i also didn't like that speed being 10 mph as 2nd gear pulls suck so ya that was my complaint all this time

whole reason I found this out was I needed to lower my wot shifts down as I had the "vette governor" and the car was shifting out of 1st at 6800 and 2nd 6500 WAY TO HIGH even my super ram cant pull well there and pushing the engine a lot even with the lt4 valve springs and roller rockers lol
so I played for the past 7 hours with all the different weights and springs till I got one that shifts at the correct rpm and also let me have my "sweet" downshifts I just wish it didn't have to hold the gears that long but it sounds more "built" holding the gears lol so I guess that's a plus I suppose

here is the brake down for the weights if anyone wants to know well atlest on my 91 trans these seem to change on different years if you want to wot around 4000-4500 then use the u shaped double weight on both sides if you want to shift around 4500-5000 use one u weight and one rectangle double weight if you want to shift 5000-5500 use 2 rectangle double weights if you want 5500-6000 use the one rectangle double and a single flat weight if you want 5800-6200 use 2 single flat weights if you want 6200-6500 use a single flat weight and a triangle shaped weight with the point on it and if you want a even higher use the 2 triangle weights
the springs also can very the wot but really they do the part throttle or how long it holds the gears lighter the spring the closer and more stacked the shifts are the heavier the spring the more there spaced out

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Really good information for those interested in fine tuning their governor-controlled trans. Way to keep at it and come up with positive results. It takes a bit to read through your suggested weight combinations and pictures could only help. Thanks for bumping with knowledge.