The 700r4 non-lock vs lock debate
05-02-2015, 10:58 PM
#1
The 700r4 non-lock vs lock debate
Hello all. I have been seeing a lot of debate on the non-lock vs locking transmission/converter in our 700r4. I currently have a non-locking converter style tran with a non-locking converter. When I did my switch from my T5 to auto, I ran into the non vs locking converter issue, so I called my tranny guy. I ended bringing the whole car to him because I got the 12k 6 month warranty if he did the install only costing me another 100 bucks. This guy has built thousands of trans and could do them in his sleep. he has been around for many moons and he knows every in and out, tricks and what have you for transmission performance. He asked what motor and cam and what is it? A dd or street/track/.... Street I told him and laid out what I want and expect from the car. He recommended NON-locking. Said you will have finer shift points and the tran wont be searching for gears. All around way better and will out perform a locking style tran. You need a tran cooler in the radiator, Air coolers suck compared. So, here I am reading forums about guys talking about what they think is better and what is what with out really knowing anything about the subject. Some know about how the lock works and how to install a kit but thats about it. So instead of me trying to describe any further about what I think I know, I will post this and let you guys read it. Im not saying people should switch or mine is better or any thing like that. I am saying, If you dont know, dont act like you do. Personally for me and my car this was best for me and what he recommended. It cost around what a new tran costs but everything is built, pressure tested,drilled and ported and built to the hilt. 10k miles on it and it rips like day 1. Enjoy!
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/tra...mission-build/
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/tra...mission-build/
05-03-2015, 02:31 AM
#2
Supreme Member
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: louisville, ky
Posts: 1,366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Axle/Gears: '01 3.42 10 bolt
Re: The 700r4 non-lock vs lock debate
lock-up or non lock-up wouldn't affect the shifts points or the searching for gears. a properly built lock-up unit can have predictable shifts without searching and shift points that are spot on.
as for the cooler, the cooler in the factory radiator is only an oversize tube. i have taken them apart to see them. big part of the reason these were known for cooling issues.
as to the article, it is so vague on the "how to" part that it seems to read more like an advertisement.
as for the cooler, the cooler in the factory radiator is only an oversize tube. i have taken them apart to see them. big part of the reason these were known for cooling issues.
as to the article, it is so vague on the "how to" part that it seems to read more like an advertisement.
05-03-2015, 01:55 PM
#3
Supreme Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: North Salt Lake
Posts: 1,353
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Car: '86 Camaro, '94 Camaro, 3 others
Engine: LG4 ->L29, L32->LR4, L36, LG4, L31
Transmission: 700R-4, T5WC, 4L80E, SM465, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, 3.23, WTB/WTT 2.93
Re: The 700r4 non-lock vs lock debate
It's not a debate. If your cruise RPM is less than the converter's stall, then you need lockup.
05-03-2015, 02:25 PM
#4
Re: The 700r4 non-lock vs lock debate
If you have the proper computer controlled kit you can have your shift points be what ever you want. TCI makes a really nice kit but is costly. I'm talking about a plain 700r4. vac TCC. Yes you can adjust the **** points but that's not what I'm talking about.
The cooler I have in my radiator is a coil inside a copper sleeve. I have a friend that owns a rad shop and custom reworked my stock rad. There is no comparison between water vs air tran cooler. call around. you need a water style for any auto tran. Yes, some may recommend running a air as well but you will never ever hear a good tran shop say you don't need a water style and that air is sufficient.
I agree. The article is vague. The point behind it is you can have a bad as#, properly running 700, with out lock-up, with the proper work done to the tran, with out heat issues, as the article vaguely shows. Like they are going to show people the years of there R/D. Why would they make a non-locking style tran, go through all the issues, customize, modify, If it wouldn't be an improvement or have some benefit vs the other?
I think these guys know what they are doing and have reasons as to why....
Here is a perfect example, you saying it wont affect the shift points,that it wont hunt for gears, but I clearly remember my tran man saying it will, I support what I say with a article from a pretty reputable company, but you don't bring any info to support your comment except your comment. Exactly why I wrote the thread. If you don't know, don't tell/try to help people with incorrect information. It really aggravates me when I see someone looking for help and it gets answered with ignorance for a response. I'm not saying 87zjeff, your comment is ignorant, However it is a great example as to the reason I wrote this. Where is your proof? Do you build transmissions? Tell me how you know what you think.
I know this site is for 3rd gen's and there love and compassion for the cars. I know a lot of people when trying to help someone, relate to how they have had the same/similar prob and this is what he/she did to fix it. Or they know what the prob is and share. But when someone is asking for help and there question is answered with nonsense, to me it affects the quality of help/information this site can offer to people. Don't say to someone there engine/tran or what ever is toast if you don't know. It sends that person down a bad spiral thinking the worst about their problem and wrecks their day. Just think how you would feel if someone said your engine was toast when the problem was your timing is off. Especially if you heard it from this site where the reputation and quality of topics/answers is #1. If you don't know, do some research, ask around. Please don't tell the person its broke when you have no clue about it. We are all here to learn and to share.
Again, Im not saying mine is better, or anything like that. There is always 2 sides to a coin. However, wrong is wrong and right is right. Please think about what you know of the subject before you tell someone there issue is toast. Your entitled to your opinion but just make sure you can back what you bring with facts.
Hope I didn't offend anyone. I just couldn't stand reading about this topic anymore when very few knew about it. IMO this should apply to any topic. Have a great Sunday.
-Dan
The cooler I have in my radiator is a coil inside a copper sleeve. I have a friend that owns a rad shop and custom reworked my stock rad. There is no comparison between water vs air tran cooler. call around. you need a water style for any auto tran. Yes, some may recommend running a air as well but you will never ever hear a good tran shop say you don't need a water style and that air is sufficient.
I agree. The article is vague. The point behind it is you can have a bad as#, properly running 700, with out lock-up, with the proper work done to the tran, with out heat issues, as the article vaguely shows. Like they are going to show people the years of there R/D. Why would they make a non-locking style tran, go through all the issues, customize, modify, If it wouldn't be an improvement or have some benefit vs the other?
I think these guys know what they are doing and have reasons as to why....
Here is a perfect example, you saying it wont affect the shift points,that it wont hunt for gears, but I clearly remember my tran man saying it will, I support what I say with a article from a pretty reputable company, but you don't bring any info to support your comment except your comment. Exactly why I wrote the thread. If you don't know, don't tell/try to help people with incorrect information. It really aggravates me when I see someone looking for help and it gets answered with ignorance for a response. I'm not saying 87zjeff, your comment is ignorant, However it is a great example as to the reason I wrote this. Where is your proof? Do you build transmissions? Tell me how you know what you think.
I know this site is for 3rd gen's and there love and compassion for the cars. I know a lot of people when trying to help someone, relate to how they have had the same/similar prob and this is what he/she did to fix it. Or they know what the prob is and share. But when someone is asking for help and there question is answered with nonsense, to me it affects the quality of help/information this site can offer to people. Don't say to someone there engine/tran or what ever is toast if you don't know. It sends that person down a bad spiral thinking the worst about their problem and wrecks their day. Just think how you would feel if someone said your engine was toast when the problem was your timing is off. Especially if you heard it from this site where the reputation and quality of topics/answers is #1. If you don't know, do some research, ask around. Please don't tell the person its broke when you have no clue about it. We are all here to learn and to share.
Again, Im not saying mine is better, or anything like that. There is always 2 sides to a coin. However, wrong is wrong and right is right. Please think about what you know of the subject before you tell someone there issue is toast. Your entitled to your opinion but just make sure you can back what you bring with facts.
Hope I didn't offend anyone. I just couldn't stand reading about this topic anymore when very few knew about it. IMO this should apply to any topic. Have a great Sunday.
-Dan
05-03-2015, 02:29 PM
#5
Re: The 700r4 non-lock vs lock debate
your right. thats no debate. How does that apply to this thread? If your tran is built correctly, you do not need lock. thats what im saying. Im saying that you can have a nice non-lock tran. Did you even read the article? they modify the valve body, drill holes in pump veins to allow proper oil flow and many others so you DONT have issues.
Last edited by -=Z28=-; 05-03-2015 at 02:37 PM.
05-03-2015, 02:44 PM
#6
Re: The 700r4 non-lock vs lock debate
omg...What are you talking about... obviously you need lock if thats the way you are going. Im saying you can have a custom made 700 non lock with no problems....Im saying people should know what they are talking about before they tell someone there stuff is junk. Yes, on a lock up tran, if your cruise is less than the converter stall, you need lock. Can you share as to why you would need a lockup? What happens? Do you even know?
05-09-2015, 03:31 PM
#7
Supreme Member
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: louisville, ky
Posts: 1,366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Axle/Gears: '01 3.42 10 bolt
Re: The 700r4 non-lock vs lock debate
If you have the proper computer controlled kit you can have your shift points be what ever you want. TCI makes a really nice kit but is costly. I'm talking about a plain 700r4. vac TCC. Yes you can adjust the **** points but that's not what I'm talking about.
The cooler I have in my radiator is a coil inside a copper sleeve. I have a friend that owns a rad shop and custom reworked my stock rad. There is no comparison between water vs air tran cooler. call around. you need a water style for any auto tran. Yes, some may recommend running a air as well but you will never ever hear a good tran shop say you don't need a water style and that air is sufficient.
I agree. The article is vague. The point behind it is you can have a bad as#, properly running 700, with out lock-up, with the proper work done to the tran, with out heat issues, as the article vaguely shows. Like they are going to show people the years of there R/D. Why would they make a non-locking style tran, go through all the issues, customize, modify, If it wouldn't be an improvement or have some benefit vs the other?
I think these guys know what they are doing and have reasons as to why....
Here is a perfect example, you saying it wont affect the shift points,that it wont hunt for gears, but I clearly remember my tran man saying it will, I support what I say with a article from a pretty reputable company, but you don't bring any info to support your comment except your comment. Exactly why I wrote the thread. If you don't know, don't tell/try to help people with incorrect information. It really aggravates me when I see someone looking for help and it gets answered with ignorance for a response. I'm not saying 87zjeff, your comment is ignorant, However it is a great example as to the reason I wrote this. Where is your proof? Do you build transmissions? Tell me how you know what you think.
I know this site is for 3rd gen's and there love and compassion for the cars. I know a lot of people when trying to help someone, relate to how they have had the same/similar prob and this is what he/she did to fix it. Or they know what the prob is and share. But when someone is asking for help and there question is answered with nonsense, to me it affects the quality of help/information this site can offer to people. Don't say to someone there engine/tran or what ever is toast if you don't know. It sends that person down a bad spiral thinking the worst about their problem and wrecks their day. Just think how you would feel if someone said your engine was toast when the problem was your timing is off. Especially if you heard it from this site where the reputation and quality of topics/answers is #1. If you don't know, do some research, ask around. Please don't tell the person its broke when you have no clue about it. We are all here to learn and to share.
Again, Im not saying mine is better, or anything like that. There is always 2 sides to a coin. However, wrong is wrong and right is right. Please think about what you know of the subject before you tell someone there issue is toast. Your entitled to your opinion but just make sure you can back what you bring with facts.
Hope I didn't offend anyone. I just couldn't stand reading about this topic anymore when very few knew about it. IMO this should apply to any topic. Have a great Sunday.
-Dan
The cooler I have in my radiator is a coil inside a copper sleeve. I have a friend that owns a rad shop and custom reworked my stock rad. There is no comparison between water vs air tran cooler. call around. you need a water style for any auto tran. Yes, some may recommend running a air as well but you will never ever hear a good tran shop say you don't need a water style and that air is sufficient.
I agree. The article is vague. The point behind it is you can have a bad as#, properly running 700, with out lock-up, with the proper work done to the tran, with out heat issues, as the article vaguely shows. Like they are going to show people the years of there R/D. Why would they make a non-locking style tran, go through all the issues, customize, modify, If it wouldn't be an improvement or have some benefit vs the other?
I think these guys know what they are doing and have reasons as to why....
Here is a perfect example, you saying it wont affect the shift points,that it wont hunt for gears, but I clearly remember my tran man saying it will, I support what I say with a article from a pretty reputable company, but you don't bring any info to support your comment except your comment. Exactly why I wrote the thread. If you don't know, don't tell/try to help people with incorrect information. It really aggravates me when I see someone looking for help and it gets answered with ignorance for a response. I'm not saying 87zjeff, your comment is ignorant, However it is a great example as to the reason I wrote this. Where is your proof? Do you build transmissions? Tell me how you know what you think.
I know this site is for 3rd gen's and there love and compassion for the cars. I know a lot of people when trying to help someone, relate to how they have had the same/similar prob and this is what he/she did to fix it. Or they know what the prob is and share. But when someone is asking for help and there question is answered with nonsense, to me it affects the quality of help/information this site can offer to people. Don't say to someone there engine/tran or what ever is toast if you don't know. It sends that person down a bad spiral thinking the worst about their problem and wrecks their day. Just think how you would feel if someone said your engine was toast when the problem was your timing is off. Especially if you heard it from this site where the reputation and quality of topics/answers is #1. If you don't know, do some research, ask around. Please don't tell the person its broke when you have no clue about it. We are all here to learn and to share.
Again, Im not saying mine is better, or anything like that. There is always 2 sides to a coin. However, wrong is wrong and right is right. Please think about what you know of the subject before you tell someone there issue is toast. Your entitled to your opinion but just make sure you can back what you bring with facts.
Hope I didn't offend anyone. I just couldn't stand reading about this topic anymore when very few knew about it. IMO this should apply to any topic. Have a great Sunday.
-Dan
Trending Topics
05-10-2015, 12:30 PM
#8
Re: The 700r4 non-lock vs lock debate
you didn't offend me. i talk to transmissions shops all day as part of my job doing tech assist for them. i know the types that say they have been building since the world was created. the one shop you talked to said lock-up affects shift points. you then read what you wanted to in a vague article to support your side. you didn't offer anything to prove that it did. as far as the cooling issue, the best way to run it is in series with the factory cooler. the in radiator cooler is only going to get as cool as the coolant. with an external cooler, it gets even more cooling. plus in your original post you didn't make any mention of a custom made radiator.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
TX-SleeperC5
Engine/Drivetrain/Suspension Parts for Sale
1
09-24-2015 03:13 PM
83 Crossfire TA
Suspension and Chassis
0
09-08-2015 12:06 PM