89rs305-DP

I was wondering what you guys think about k&n air filters. I already have an open element, but are these really worth the $50 bucks? Any noticeable performance difference?

Also, what do you think about this product?... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/KNN-66-3040/?rtype=10

89rs305-DP

Or this... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/KN...01XP/?rtype=10

DJP87Z28

They are worth it in the sense you DO NOT need to buy another filter. I am using the same filters on my TPI since 1989. Note: They do need cleaning and oiling. Small gains in performance also but too small to brag about.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

Yup, K&N the rest of your life. Clean and oil respectfully and your good forever more. Also there is a slight performance gain with K&N over paper or foam but yes nothing to brag about.

I like this picture.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

If you can find a Green performance filter for your application, they actually beat K&N at their own game. They're made better and flow about twice as much air for the same filter area.

http://www.greenfilterusa.com/

DJP87Z28

Yes the new BO buzz word...go green. I don't think so, will stay with the K&N.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

It doesn't have anything to do with buzz words, it's just a brand name. And not really new either... Green has been making filters for at least 10 years. Not that there's anything wrong with K&N, but there's a lot of hype and in reality there are better choices for performance if that's all you're interested in.

SiCkRs

iTrader: (6)

So the green filters give better performance than kn

Ron U.S.M.C.

I like this filter set up. Especially if you have a cowl hood.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

In theory, assuming that the engine can benefit from more airflow then the K&N can provide.

You know those K&N counter top demonstrators most parts stores have?

They work by using a couple of computer fans to pull air through the air filter, and the exhaust blows out a tube with a ping pong ball. The idea is to run it with a restrictive paper filter, and then the K&N to show how much more air blows through the tube pushing the ping pong ball higher. But the dirty little secret is that the demonstrator is adjustable. There's a air bypass door on the back that is tuned to position the ball near the top with the K&N filter. This excerpt from the instructions talks about it briefly.

Anyway, in practice if you get a Green filter the same size as the paper and K&N elements, you can compare them using their own demonstrator. With the paper filter, if you close that bypass almost all the way, it'll peg the ball at the top of the tube. If you open it half way the ball drops almost all the way to the bottom. Now if you swap the K&N filter for the paper filter, the ball will shoot up. If you remove the screw and completely open the bypass, the ball will drop back to the bottom. Then if you replace the K&N with the Green, it'll peg the ball with the bypass completely open. The Green filter is as much an upgrade over the K&N, as the K&N is over the paper filter.

BTW the K&N demonstrator is setup to use the same filter as a TPI Camaro.

danziger

K&N's conical/cylindrical filters are pretty good, but I wouldn't waste my time with their flat-panel ones. We tested a K&N versus a Fram versus no filter on a mild LS1 and all runs were within +/- 2HP...

ls1>*

iTrader: (32)

are they gonna give a huge performance gain... no... but its a reuseable air filter, so why not? get it dirty, clean it oil it and your done...

89rs305-DP

So according to the second video on their site... http://www.greenfilterusa.com/Videos...4/Default.aspx ... the green filters flow better than k&n. But if you ask me a green filter on my car would just look wierd. Has anyone found a better flow comparison of the two?

y84pauloflondon

So the "Green" filter allows for more air to pass through it!, but does it filter out as much dust/crap as the K&N filter does?

If Not: the Green filter would be good to use at the track, but I'll stick to my K&N filter for the everyday drive!

84z350crate

me too, I love hearing the air enter the filter through my cowl

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Agreed. The goal is CLEAN air, not just more. Otherwise we'd just take our filters off & throw them away.

Guest

If clean is the only concern, then K+N are not what you want either. A paper filter will do better.

Never looked at the Green filter stuff... I guess I will go see what they've got.

Here's some "non-scientific" testing for you to compare:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

Just looked at the "Green" filters site and the video.
I cant put too much faith in that airflow testing. It would be very easy to skew the results like that, if you own either of them you may know exactly how to accomplish that. With the wide variance in their ping pong ball 'test' I'm going to have to call foul and leave it at that.

Cal Trans

Hey guys! First post here. What about the crankcase breather? That is always dirtier on my car. I just have the good old Fram one in that small rectangular holder. I'd be more interested in a great one of those. Recommendations?
Anyway, I find it weird that people put stickers of what filter they have on their car, like the K&N one. Do people have decals like Britta or PUR on their kitchen window or fridge too? I mean- it's being proud of a filter!

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Exactly! You took the words out of my mouth.

They used to offer direct replacement filters for more cars. From what I can see they don't offer as many now. They've always been harder to come by then some of the alternatives.


The video on the Green website is funny, because the video has been up for 8 months by the link, and we did the same thing with the K&N display at the auto parts store I worked for back in 2004. The truth is the demonstrator is adjustable, and can be adjusted to make any filter look good or bad. If the tube was about three times longer, you could adjust the bypass to put the ball wherever you want it with a specific filter. Even with the paper filter, if you completely close the bypass it'll bounce the ball off the cross pin all day, because there's no where else for the air to go except up the tube. With it still closed the other two filters will continue to bounce it off the pin. But the fun begins when you completely open the bypass. With the bypass open so the air can blow out the back instead of out the tube, the paper filter doesn't move the ball at all, and the K&N barely lets enough air through to move the ball at all, but the Green will still bounce the ball off the cross pin. If the tube was longer the ball would stabilize. The way their video is shot, you can't really tell what's going on, but if you have the right size filter (they used to make one, I don't know if they still do), you can try it yourself.

Assuming those machines are at all valid (debatable), and the variance between the paper and K&N filters are valid, then it's also valid that the Green filter flows more air for the same filter area.

I couldn't tell you if they filter better or worse, but filtration is secondary to performance to most people considering the K&N over paper.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

The crankcase filter gets dirty because it's plumbing blow-by and oily air from inside your valve cover back into the intake. I wouldn't worry about it, even if it's saturated with oil, because the later cars (TPI for example) don't even have a filter, they just dump that crap back into the throttle body. Except in those cars it ends up crudding up the IAC and causing idle problems.

Haven't you seen the commercials? The K&N adds as much horse power as an engine swap, or a turbocharger... People that believe that believe the stickers add horsepower, or feel the need to advertise their new parts... It's just stupid people being stupid.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Clean isn't the ONLY concern, but massive amounts of dirty air is bad too.

I'll give up some airflow for better filtering of the smaller amount of airflow, since mine is a STREET car (not a pure race car which would see limited running time anyways).

There has to be a good balance, between air flow & air quality.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

Holley sells their own version... with blue tinted oil instead of red or green.



they're worth it because they are well made and last forever. Some cars (mostly newer) have claimed to have issues with the oil from the filter coating the MAF and causing problems. Most likely they over-oiled the filter after cleaning.

I've used K&N filters for at least 10 years in all my cars, no complaints.

Guest

You would not even need to adjust the machine used in that video to skew the results. The Green filter supposedly flows as much as no filter. Both of those cotton fiber filters, and foam filters, require oiling to function. That is because of the gaps in the media, the idea is the air and particles bounce off the fibers of the media and with the oil it gets stuck. So leave off the oil on one, and overoil the other... and boom you have tons of flow on one and tons of restriction on the other.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Except I've done it myself with freshly oiled filters right out of the boxes.

89rs305-DP

@ I H8 WWD
Ummm.. this is kinda off topic, but why does your iroc-z have an L03 in it???

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Because in some years the entry level engine in the IrocZ was the 305 TBI.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

Yes ^. I get it all the time from people. THIS ISN'T AN IROC, IT DOESN'T HAVE A 350TPI. You do not understand how many people are miss-informed about the IROC-Z. I literally almost get into fights with people over this, because I'm trying to be truthful but they think they know all because they had an IROC but it had a 350tpi so all IROC's have to be 350's only. Its an ongoing process I am trying to fix. I am thinking of placing a piece of paper in my window telling people exactly what deems a Camaro an IROC, just so I dont have to explain anymore.

Its all good though. Some people think I get mad, I don't, because I'm not the one wrong

-Take care

DJP87Z28

Some additional info on 1989 IROCZ
LO3 305 TBI was the BASE no extra cost engine.
LB9 305 TPI was the option at additional cost of $745
B2L 350 TPI was also a option at additional cost of $1045 + additional extra cost required options (expensive in its day).

It was the big dollars of the 350 TPI that turned me off and I got the LB9 which reduced my sticker price by $1500. Remenber those were big buck then in 1987/89..

89rs305-DP

Ooooh. I had no idea they came with L03s. Learn somethin new everyday lol.
But anyways... back to air filters...
So i was wondering if the size of the filter would affect flow. Im talking about the circle filters btw. Like a 12in vs a 14in. You would think the 14in would flow better right? Thats what i have.
Also what about height?... Like a 3in tall vs a 5.5 in tall? 5.5in should flow better right? But then you would have to worry about hood clearance

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

yes U have two K&N E-117 air filters on egay for $50 shipped try egay

89rs305-DP

Ummm....What???

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

egay is a nickname for ebay. that is what you call ebay when they screw you.

y84pauloflondon

I would think so too.....the engine wouldn't need to work as hard to pull in the air from a larger filter....... but does anyone here know, or have any data to show/prove this?

I'm curious!!!!!!

89rs305-DP

91B2L

You can save some cash and get the summit brand filter. Same thing as K&N

my82roc

iTrader: (101)

I have K&N air filters in both of my Irocs.I get them out of junkyard cars.Currently have about 3 extra pairs for tpi/mpfi and a pair from a crossfire car.Way cheaper than buying new

CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

I don't know about anybody else but when I had my K&N dual air filters put in, I took it to a dyno to see what the increases were. It bumped me up alot more than what I expected. 30 horses & 20 ft. of torque. That was a year ago. So there are alot of brands out here with steep prices but K&N is a pretty darn good brand in my opinion. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

Oh & yeah, I forgot to mention also. K&N air filters (and with any other legit brand I'm sure) work better with a cold air intake kit or set up. That makes it work much more efficiently with the air flow coming into the motor.

ellocojorge

iTrader: (1)

i couldnt find a camaro filter on the greenfilter site.

bad to be blown

i use only ever use k&n in till i got given a eam filter and wow blown away by the difference.

only thing is they dont last for ever

Drew

iTrader: (58)

They might have discontinued the TPI filter but they used to make one. I've had it in my hands. But I do admit their website could use a better application guide, and it's possible they don't even offer one anymore.

F-Body Demon

iTrader: (1)

I did a test when I bought my k&n, it was the first mod I ever did for performance; I ran a pull on the drag strip stock and then I dropped in the k&n...and ripped off a tenth better, and boy let me tell you that was the beginning of the end when the lady handed me my time slip haha.

tater

iTrader: (10)

WHAT????? 30hp/20tq from an air filter??? How dirty was your previous air filter???

I am going to go install three filters right now!

CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

I don't know but pretty old & dirty. It may be different results for your car too. I can't say it's the same for every car but there was a much different gain without the old pieces of junk I had in before. It also has alot to do with temperature, sea level, car weight, etc. But I was impressed with the K&N's then & I am still to this day. In fact I believe I don't ever have to replace the K&N air filters. Just gotta keep them clean.

jls172008

i didnt waist the money to put one on my ta b/c i got one for my jeep and it did nothing..big fat zero....

DJP87Z28

Because you have a Jeep and nothing helps that piece of junk. Also learn to spell.... "WAIST" ????

Waste not want not.....

jharrison5

I have one in each of my Vehicles and will never go back to the old paper style again.

dealbatony

i just swapped out my old paper filter to a k&n it was long overdue and i finally stopped slacking..

not a big difference acceleration wise but i do feel a major difference in high speeds..it pulls much smoother through the higher gears and doesn't give that stump when its shifting..it also make the engine sound a'lot better..
i would recommend it to anybody regardless of what car they drive..

danziger

No offense, but there is no way you can "feel" the difference in power with an air filter change of any brand unless the previous one was clogged to the point of restriction. Like I said previously, the difference on the dyno between a Fram, a K&N and NO filter was within 1-2HP.

Dswen68

well I followed your link and I placed an order for my Formula which is equipped with a tbi unit. I placed the order two months ago it showed it in stock on the website, two months later I have no air filter so I ended up canceling the order, these people are a joke. It was really rare that they even answer an email, it was nearly impossible to get anyone on the telephone when I finally did this morning they told me they had only one other order for my style air cleaner and it still hasn't been manufactured. That was a year ago so some poor individual is still waiting a year later and hasn't gotten his product after paying for it. The rep on the phone told me in not so many words that I are filters weren't important and in-demand so they shelved it to produce other filters. How about this don't even offer it for sale if you're not going to give us the product after we paid, not only that if it's not in stock listed as backordered indefinitely. Very very shity way to do business.