Andy Fanshawe

iTrader: (1)

This is a long saga, so settle down and have a read and a laugh at my expense.
I have a 1991 RS w/o T-Tops (thank goodness) that is causing me grief beyond human endurance in regard to water leaks into the cabin. There was water below the rear passenger seat, which I traced to the rear hatch seal not being stuck down. And water in the hatch area 3 inches deep! This was also caused by the hatch seal. So all the interior out, including carpets and sound deadening felt. All areas covered in baby talcum powder so the water trickles could be seen.
The hatch seal looked fine-no cuts, grazes, so I was confident that after it was sealed back down it was going to be dry. Every confidence! Did it work?............................Er, No.

Next rains came, water in again-only a bit this time, but enough. It would only leak into the rear hatch area roughly 20 minutes after the rain started. WTF? After a bit of detective work, I discovered that the water was entering into the actual seal itself down a couple of the vent holes in the top, and then running around inside the seal to the join at the rear and then running out into the hatch area, under the hatch motor and going all the way down into a puddle at the bottom.
Ha, I thought, why is the water even getting any where near the holes? Anyway, I sealed the offending holes up with black sealer and felt confident. Yes?......................Er, No.

Then I spotted some more water back where the rear seat used to be! But, I solved that, didn't I? Obviously not. This time the water was coming in right in the corner of the roof/B post. Right where the top corner of the glass from the door. So, seal off, sealant in, seal back down. Cured it? Yes?.................Er, No.

Then the water was dripping in the hatch seal again. This time it is dripping in over the top of the seal in one place only! Actually coming in between the hatch and the seal! How the hell can it do that when the hatch squeezes the seal down? So a call to a local parts stockists to get a price for a new hatch seal and availability. 2 weeks wait (don't forget this is the UK) and £49 + VAT. About $93. He couldn' tell me if it was original equipment or not, so he is checking again on Monday.

Will I ever get the interior back?

Does anyone actually have a Camaro or Firebird that doesn't leak? I really hate winter.

Andy.

1986redbird

I hate to say it,but, I have a 86 bird (no t's) that doesn't leak a drop (knock on wood),the only place it has ever leaked is when the heater core let go. and yes, I still have all the factory gaskets. the cars got over 170,000 miles on it and so-far-so-good.

stay with it you'll get it soon.

by the way, I did have a brand new boat the stayed wetter in the cabin on the trailer than the hull did when it was sitting in the water, took me about a month and 4 tubes of marine sealant before I got that fixed.

85SportCoupeto89RS

Mine use to leak until I found this leak. Where the air shocks bolt onto the hatch there is a 3 x 5 I think piece of plastic, I put all brandnew weatherstripping onto my car and still had a leak in that spot. The water would go inbetweent the decklid and the plastic piece since most of the glue that held it in had came off. I siliconed it up and havent had a leak from it since. And the spot where the weather stripping meets together might be a spot for water to get in. I used black silicone to bond the weatherstripping together. Now my int is dry as a bone in the desert. Stick with it and eventually you will fix the problem.

HamsterOnaMission

if it's coming over the seals, try putting a little vasaline on them. You have to do it every once and a while, but it'll stup the water from squeezing through. This worked quite well on a leaky sunroof

un4givin89

Hurm, my T-tops don't leak, but my HATCh does leak. I haven't been able to locate the source.

the seals seem and look perfect. Go figure

badandy247

mine dosent leak but thats only when its not raining
any other time just a few drops from the front of the t's

CrazyHawaiian

My 91 dosnt leak at all. My 90 does leak but its because there is rust damage right behind the t-tops on the body and water gets through. This caused the entire interior portion of the roof to get rusted under the headliner. I'm going to have to cut and weld new metal in there. I'm sure the body is weakened (both by the t-tops and rust) so its not hitting the track untill I get a cage in there. Yes water damage sucks!!!

ontogenesis

my 85 doesn't leak the least, it used to where the floorpan rusted out...i dunno how water got in that 1' hole.... , but thats fixed and it's sealed up tight as a rooster's ******* now

Jza

85sport:
Dingdingdingding! We have a winner! That's the leak that I see the most.

Andy Fanshawe

iTrader: (1)

HamsterOnaMission.
That vaseline seems like a good idea to try. Never thought of that. Thank you very much. Seems that the rubber feels a little bit dry, but it is always hard to tell when comparison with a new one is not possible.
That's my job for tomorrow then!

Thanks again to all who responded. Any other comments/suggestions/waterlogged stories are welcome!

Andy.

un4givin89

I think I am gonna try the hose water trick and see if I can not locate the source of my leak on the rear hatch.

I have opened my hatch before after a good hard rain to find a large pool of water at the bottom.

Freeze

1992 Firebird with T-Tops and no leaks

Andy Fanshawe

iTrader: (1)

HamsterOnaMission.
That vaseline seems like a good idea to try. Never thought of that. Thank you very much. Seems that the rubber feels a little bit dry, but it is always hard to tell when comparison with a new one is not possible.
That's my job for tomorrow then!

Thanks again to all who responded. Any other comments/suggestions/waterlogged stories are welcome!

Andy.

PS Check out the photo of my indoor swimming pool.
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=152532

Andy Fanshawe

iTrader: (1)

Oops! Double (ish) post sorry! Damn that back button! Meant to say this;

un4givin89.
Good luck with your water search! Give yourself a good chance here and remove the rear panel that covers the hatch motor and peel the carpet back. Check out the 2 points that 85SportCoupeto89RS mentioned and be absolutely certain that the seal is stuck down all the way round. Especially check that seal joining point. Use the talc if you can to pinpoint any run marks. Apart from that, it smells nice and absorbs water also!

Good luck.
Andy.

redraif

My 87 t-top car has original seals and does not leak anywhere. I have always used black magic thick silicone on the weather strip to keep it plyable...

91Zman

Mine used to leak right on the rear seats on my Z.Found out that it was the seal gasket where the hatch bolts to the roof at.When they bolt the hinges down they used this black sealer that comes in a tube that goes where the bolts come through to mount the hinges.

85maroz28

I have an 85 Z28 and mine leaks in a few differnet places. First place is passanger side floor. It does not leak there all the time just when we get a hard rain. The second place is right behind the headliner in the rear it leaks onto the seats. Thats the worst one, it does it everytime it rains or when it gets washed. The third place is in the storage compartment in the rear. That does not get real wet though, just enough to know that there is a little bit of water there. I don't drive the car in the rain anymore it just sits in the garage when ever it rains so I don't worry about it to much but I would like to track it down sooner or later.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

Niether my T-tops or my hatch or any windows leak. All with the original seals!!!! Muhuhhuhuhuauahahah!!! :lala:

Since I have had some problems with my car it is still mostly stock. So most of you can probably outrun my LB9. So that may be consolation to those of you that have leaking seals.

pennylessz28

Once again, thank you for the tip, I will try to do this when it warms up around here.

85SportCoupeto89RS

Thats gotta be one of the most overlooked spots for a hatch leak. It took me a week to figure out how the water was getting in through there. I had my dad hose the car down while I squeezed up under the deck lid to watch the water Litteraly gush in through this one small spot.

MdFormula350

umm my car is about 99% leak free..
original seals also.

just had to re-seal the t-top weatherstripping to the body and adjust the t-tops a tad..

i get a drop or two when i open my door when its raining

zer0321

1992 RS: original weather stripping, basically no adjustments or service done to the seals, and 100% leak free...

oh, and no squeeks or rattles either!

brent4a

Mine has leaked since i got it. Leaks right at top of drivers window and drips right in on my left thigh , and has rotted my seats out, but I am going to restore whole car and I hope I can get it straight while doing that....no hatch problems.....yet

Nasty_Bird_'90

Mine did't leak at all until last winter I slid on some ice and slid it into a deep ditch. It 'teetered't there on the edge of the ditch overnight until the tow truck came to get it out. I think it tweaked the frame just enought to make the ttops leak. . damn ice!

Andy Fanshawe

iTrader: (1)

Today I removed the seals from round the passenger door aperture in the frame and removed the roof guttering strip and aluminium seal channel and spotted a small hole right in the corner. Sorry the photo is a bit blurred. Damn digital cameras. Well it is now sealed up awaiting a water test tomorrow.
The rear hatch seal has also been vaselined in a last ditch attempt to stop that leaking.
I'll let you all know what happens.

Andy.

uk89camaro

Andy,
I have replaced all my seals appart from the hatch, as you know. I have noticed something a little obscure at the top of the hatch (i.e. roof-hatch area) There is a strip of floating trim, i.e. not attached to either the glass or the roof, that just sits in the channel. I have no idea if it's standard or if someone added it in. However, it has the effect of deflecting water around the sides of the hatch into the drainage channels.

Just a thought?

Paul

Andy Fanshawe

iTrader: (1)

Hi Paul.
Have you got a photo of this floating bit of trim? Mine has definitely not got this. Anyway, I am hoping I have sorted it out now. I am waiting to add my amps, speakers and autochanger when I am absolutely sure that they won't get submerged!
On the subject of progress, I am currently researching the retrofitting of a TPI system to the 1977 350 in this car. I can then throw away that carburettor! The seats are also being redesigned as we speak-upholstery wise.
How's your car? Does it grace the roads in our winter time this year?

Andy.

blackknight2010

My 85 t-top transam leaks at the door corner / both sides despite tring to bond in the ttops. Never thought about the vaseline. I had thought about a bead of thin fresh oil thinking along the same principles as when I fit a new oil filter the rubber gasket gets a smearing to seal it.
Will report back with the vaseline tryout. Ohh Missus !

uk89camaro

No and NO

I took the cover off yesterday (wasn't raining!) and had it ticking over for 10 mins, but didn't read this post 'till later. It's now pi$$ing down, so I'll take a pic as soon as I can.

Boydmutch,
If you search the boards for "Leaking AND T-Tops", you'll be happy for a couple of days reading the post!

uk89camaro

I shouldn't really post the response to my "floating hatch trim", but I'll mitigate against sarcastic replies by saying, I've only had the car for a year or so, so couldn't be expected to have looked into every nook and cranny......Unlike andy who has rebuilt every nut and bolt.

Andy,

I'll put you out your misery. There are two old wiper blade rubbers sitting in the top hatch channel! Don't ask!

Andy Fanshawe

iTrader: (1)

Whoops! Wonder how they got there?! I'm not laughing,.. honest! :sillylol:

Anyway, that little hole I sealed up in the corner of the passenger door aperture (mentioned above) has cured the leak into the rear passenger side seat area. So, now it's back to the seal for the hatch. I removed the spare tyre and discovered there was water there as well. Lol! Wherever next? This time there were run marks down by the area where the passenger side light unit bolts in. I had renewed all those rubber washers that seal the lights down during the summer months so that wasn't the cause. So, I removed the light unit completely and looked back there for any water ingress points. Then I spotted a big hole in the corner. The big hole that should have had a grommet in it to remove when you want access the the boot spoiler nuts from the outside. The other side has got one, so where has this one gone?! A little scrambling about in my grommet box had one of the right size put back in.
Now there is talc all over the place again ready for the rain tonight and any more puddles!

The irony of this big hole is that I should have discovered this when I intended to fit my aero spoiler at the end of the summer, but is still lerking in my garage patiently, waiting to be fitted! Should have worked faster!

More updates soon.

Andy.

86NiteRider

iTrader: (10)

I feel really special. No T Top leaks and with original seals. No hatch leaks. Inside cabin is dry as a bone. And all this with over 217,000 mile on the '86. Hope I have no jinxed myself.

acidboy

Mine leaked for awhile, but one saturday I went out to the garage. A few hours, some silicon, some random sealant stuff I found lying around the garage, and a spare piece of T-Top weatherstripping I had, and it was fixed.

Andy Fanshawe

iTrader: (1)

That vaseline worked wonders! No water over the top of the hatch seal now! Thanks for that tip HamsterOnaMission!

Came home after work today and found the spare wheel well with plenty of water in again! lol, does any bit of this car not leak?! Thought that missing grommet would cure it. But,.......no.
So, passenger side rear light unit removed again and a careful search around for leak spots. My Wife poured the water over the spot, while I looked for the water coming in. Sure enough, in it came. It appears to be the brown body sealer in the corner starting to crack. There was a hairline fracture in it right in the corner, just above the grommet. So, more black sealant used, smoothed by my finger dipped in white spirit and it was done. Tomorrow will tell for sure.

This appears to be a major problem with this car. That light brown seam sealer put on at the factory seems to be drying out and cracking in quite a few areas. The well on the other side to the spare tire one also has a little bit of water in it, and it appears to be coming from a big clump of that sealant stuff near the bottom. Just below the last fastener holding the bumper cover to the quarter panel. Check that one out tomorrow. Might mean bumper cover and little skirt bits off.


Andy

powermite

Whats up Andy,not in from the cold already!!!!!!!!
Im having 5 mins rest then back out to the TA.Im swapping all the black plastic in the centre console and radio area for billet aluminium that I made up in work.All fits now but just need to put the final finish on

Hope to see you this year at some shows

PM

Andy Fanshawe

iTrader: (1)

Hi Powermite.
No, I will be working right through the winter-outside as well! A bit of cold and wet never hurt anyone! How else can I check the car for leaks than leaving it outside? I am trying to install amps, subwoofers, CD autochangers etc in the RS, but don't really want to have them submerged at the first sign of rain.
Get us a picture of your billet aluminium interior bits will you? What do you do as a job? Must be good to fabricate things at work. Bit difficult in an 11-18 comprehensive school!

Our other Camaro (the red one) is having a surprise this winter! I am making a biggish purchase from the States in the next few days that will go down quite well at the shows (where it would be nice to meet up). Not giving away much yet though, so don't ask! Going to fit TPI to the 350 in the RS as well. Had enough of carburettors now! Bit of a busy time this is. New born baby (well, 8 weeks old) as well. If it was summer all the time, we would never get any work done to the cars would we?

Andy.

powermite

Andy,
Once its all finished i'll post some pics.I'm intrigued by your big purchase.By the way I have my own machine shop so no prom to make bits and pieces

cheers

PM

fb305svs

Andy- easiest way to retrofit tpi to that 77 350 block is to invest in a set of used 350 centerbolt heads... have em ported out good, nice valve job, upgraded valves.... shoudl flow pretty well, fairly cheaply too...

on the other hand, if you can find a standard bolt pattern intake base for the tpi you'd be all set.!

as for leaks, none in my 91, small one in my hatch that i too solved bye using some vasoline on the seal, and the front of the tops leak a bit too



Steve

Andy Fanshawe

iTrader: (1)

Powermite.
Your own machine shop? Jealousy abounds!

fb305svs
Thank you for your advice rearding the TPI retrofit. I will put that in my research file for future use. Very useful.

Andy.

PS No more water in spare wheel well and it has poured down today in large quantities! One more leak to go and I might be able to put my audio wiring in and all the interior!

uk89camaro

Jealous is not the word!!

Guess I'll just polish my plastic up really good!

uk89camaro

Oh!, as you do in your lunch hour I am well impressed! :hail:

Andy Fanshawe

iTrader: (1)

uk89camaro
Don't be impressed yet, it may not work!!! May take a couple of lunch hours.
Anyway, my Wife has give me the ultimatum about the fact that one of our cars has to go! Can't be the Peugeot 406 estate, 'cos that is the family car. Can't be the little teeny Micra 'cos that's my work car. That leaves our red camaro in the garage (our show car that has been with us since we got married in 1994-and in FAR better condition than it was then) or the black RS. Decisions, decisions!
I may give you the first refusal!

The RS has done a massive total of 60 miles since the complete engine rebuild! At this rate I will have the engine broken in by 2010! Might have to leave that pleasure to someone else!

Andy

uk89camaro

Can't quite believe you've got away with it thus far! I'd have to shift mine on before I could get board approval for a new capital outlay.

Kj Rockz

**** No....


I wish I could figure out where it is leaking....

MartyMcFly

Mine is all stock and only leaks if you spray water directly at one of the door seals or hatch seal.

I must say I really admire you British guys for your dedication. It must be so hard to get parts over there.

'86-5.7L-IROC

Mine dont leak at all.....They have never been taken out except once by me like 2 months ago....In my garage....

~RJ~

Andy Fanshawe

iTrader: (1)

MartyMcFly
It is a bit difficult to get parts sometimes! It gets really frustrating when we have to wait 2 weeks for a hatch seal! But, it is worth it. The third gens are a sight to see on our roads. Guaranteed to turn any head! This makes all the waiting a lot easier to bear. It's either wait or buy a *****!!

Andy.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

not a drop............

92Transam

We have a 86 trans am that has t tops and does not leak at all, and a 91 rs with t tops and it does not leak at all as well. Im about to buy a 92 bird with t tops and the seller says it does not leak at all as well. If you take care of them they won't leak. Is it CKY jelly that you use? I can't remember off hand.

Ex-Ford guy

My Old Folk still seems to hold its bladder pretty well. 196000+ miles pretty darn close to all original. Seals definitely are. Sould have probably kept my mouth shut though......