StreetRoc85 350

Our power windows suck. They are slow, heavy, and clunk when you shut the door. They are a pain to work on, and they often squeal if not adjusted perfectly. So I was thinking.....

How can we rectify this?

I tried first by lubing my window tracks and putting bearing grease on the gear in the motor. Made a big difference, and well worth the time it takes to pull those damn door panels off, but still I want more.

What about 4th gen window motors? Will they fit? Im sure they will be faster than the dinosaur-motors we have.

Often times the rattling you hear when you close the door is the door latch/lock rods. If there is not aleady a piece of foam to cusion them, put one in there. It will make a big difference.

Now for the next problem, How to stop the window from "clunking" and hitting the door when you shut it? Im in the process of trying some foam pads that I made, Ill post the results when Im done.

And for my last mod, Auto window switches. Part of the reason why our window switches keep burning out is because we have to sit there holding them for forever and a half waiting for our windows. In most new cars, they auto swicthes that let you just tap the switch and it does the rest. Im currently searching junkyards to find a donor car, more results to come.

Hope this helps some of you out, and if you have any ideas, please post them.

Bandit5

Need pictures. Also let us know on the progress of window motor swap.

StreetRoc85 350

Im still trying to figure out how to post pics, and Im not actually swapping the motors yet, i just wanted to know if they would fit.

86WS6_T/A

Saturn power window switches are a direct swap (same plug). Do a search and you should be able to find what year and model they came in.

antivtec69

well about the 4th gen motors, they are junk.

DTL504

iTrader: (1)

I just going to buy new motors for my windows they sell for like $64.00 for a pair. Will a new window motor have the same problem?

FastElectrics

Ok, I know it a bad word to use.. but is there any way to make a ford window motor work... those things are fast..

Bandit5

If you stay with GM, the power window in my sister's '98 Buick Riviera is fast as ****... and that window is HUGE! Lets try to get one of those in there.

Jstcrzyengh

iTrader: (2)

Here's the problem. GM typically uses the same power window motor for all of their cars. The Power window motor in our cars is the same one of MANY others, many others that you feel may be faster. To prove that go on ebay and do a search for camaro power windows. You will find new windows for sale that fit cars all the way up to present day. In fact on many hot rods that go to power windows they use our motors. The problem is if you look at the hardware on our cars it isn't much different at all from manual, and that doesn't even look good. I am working on the same situation, however, I am doing all custom wiring using a new motor and a dual up/down switch, but than I am having custom door panels made, so I have the ability to mess with that. If you are putting that together you will probably have to have them in the center console not the door. Also look up "2vmodular", I believe that is his name on these boards, he has AWESOME information on his website for the power windows and will give you a great place to start. Also like mentioned before the Saturn power windows work really well. Actually a lot of the early Saturn stuff fits on our cars. I believe when they formed Saturn GM used a lot of those old parts to get rid of them basically. PM me I will post your pictures for you, as well we can collaberate some info back and forth. Would make a great tech article to upgrade our windows.

James

StreetRoc85 350

Ive heard a lot about saturn window parts. Im going junkyarding next week, Ill keep an eye out for the window switches. If I can find 2 drivers side switches and wire them into my windows to get the auto feature, that would be great. I like the idea of just being able to tap the switches and have my windows go down while I take off the t-tops. Which brings me to my next project- How to get the t-tops to unlatch themselves, lift off, and nestle gently into their bag by themselves. Any ideas?

kretos

get some godlike powers is all i can suggest

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

I dunno if its really any different, but my '79 Corvette power windows are super fast. Completely original circa 1979m they still work great and are among the fastest I've seen in a long time.

Alexcoqui

I changed the motors to my trans am a few months ago because they were slow like you said, their still slow. don't trow your money away, if their not broken new ones wont do nothing for you.

CrazyHawaiian

I have problems with the power windows on my 91 Z too. The windows move very slow. But I am about 75% sure its not because of a bad window motor, I think its because of the switch. My 89 IROC has no issues at all, windows are very fast and work perfect. So I know the stock setup can work well, just depends on the condition. I will be doing a 4th gen interior swap into my 91 Z so I plan to use the 4th gen window switches. Just to let you know, AutoLok (the guys who make the keyless entry kits) make a window module that will give you the single touch operation on any power window setup. I think its around $35 too (its universal). I agree that the single touch operation is cool, and I plan to do this as well when I do the 4th gen interior swap.

StreetRoc85 350

Where can I contact these auto-lock people? I didnt have any luck finding saturn switches today at the yard.

antivtec69

http://www.autoloc.com/ i do believe this is the site you want

*F-BodyFanatic*

iTrader: (2)

Right before someone broke into my car, I was having problems with my passenger side power window. It would be about 2/3 closed, then the motor wouldn't work anymore I sorta fixed it, but then I had to get out, and jiggle the window and then it would continue to go up.

I was waiting for a good day to tear apart the door and see wth was up with it... but then lucky for me, someone busted in my window and I had to take it apart to put the new on in anyways.

I hate the windows though, they are SOOOOOO slow. It takes ages to put them up/down.

tony1784

the windows in my daily driver Lincoln Mark 8 are super fast, it would be awesome to have windows like that in the T/A.

SeeYa

I've seen a post on this before. If you connect the switch to a relay and run a thicker guage wire to the window motor you can get a huge improvement.

StreetRoc85 350

I never even thought of that.


That would make a difference. The stock wires are like spaghetti. Not very efficient. I bet speaker wire would do the trick.


That idea deserves my official :hail:

Jstcrzyengh

iTrader: (2)

I did notice on our cars 16 gauge seemed to be used a lot, and in some cases 18. For the long distances from the front of the car to the back, not a wise idea, but electrically they used what was needed to get the job done. Also you have to think of electrical wire like a hose. The bigger the wire the more constant power can be carried over a longer distance. Good example of this if you take an extension chord. The longer they are the thickier they are. You start losing a lot of juice once you go over 3 feet from your power source. I like 12 and 14, it can be overkill, but usually provides the response you need.

MrDude_1

as some of you know, i parted out my first high school 3rdgen a few weeks back...


well i pulled a power window motor... i managed to get the pass side one out... but of course i never did get around to getting teh drivers side one out before it was towed.. (guess what side had the brand new (7month old) motor in it )


anyhoo, i played around with it some, and i got it to work faster by using a small transformer to up the voltage from 12-13v battery power to 21V according to my multimeter...

of course, all this testing was done outside the car.... i eventually got bored, fed the motor 48 volts and it went really fast before all the magic smoke came out and i smelled ozone.


so right now, my plan is to run thicker wires to the window motor in my car and run a small sealed transformer inside the door to slightly step up the power.. the long term effects on the motor remain to be seen, but whenever i get around to doing it, it could be a way to get the windows to run faster.


also... i have yet to locate these damn saturn switches we've been talking about for the last year... i thought i found a pair, but they wernt auto down.

Jstcrzyengh

iTrader: (2)

What kind of transformer were you using? I think if 48 killed it, 21 might be ok, but expect a shorter life. How are you linking it up? I am going to custom build the harness, so I want to see what you are running so that maybe we can put something together.

MrDude_1

just one i had laying around... ive been collecting electronic junk since i was 12....
im pretty sure the coil i was using was from a small power supply... but im not positive....and i was kinda overdrawing current on it... got a lil warm.. lol.

when i was testing it, i was using a power supply set at 12-13v.. same as a auto batt... but it was AC..... it wont work with DC..

i was stepping up the power, then i switch it to DC.... lil misleading from what i orignally posted, but you get the idea...


what you're really looking for to do it in the car, is a DC-DC power supply... you can probly find one online cheap... and if you're lucky, i'll be sealed and you can mount it in the door....

like 90% of the lil things like this, i never fully persue it for one reason or another.... so i'll probly never get around to doing it... but im sure you can find a PS thru your local electronics shop or online...

flyitlikustolit

so a thicker wire and a realy... what kind of relay? like a horn relay or defroster relay? and where do i get the plug to put it in? this is and easy fix i could do when i change door panels... anybody?

grafx

Are windows aren't that bad if you have a set of new motors installed. As far as all the noises your doors may be making is more than likley due to wear and tear over the years. Clips may be worn out allowing play in linkage causing rattles, window guides and pads may be worn. The outter door handles are probably the most common, if you look up under the handle you will see a small spring in the handle. This spring keeps tension on the handle so that it does not rattle. This spring is made of thin metal and is often broken especially on driver side, causing handle to rattle when door is closed and while driving over bumpy roads. But you know what every car is subject to these same conditions given the same amount of wear and tear. I'm in the process of trying to quiet my doors and have them sound more solid when shutting them. One other thing thant can be done for a nice solid sound is Dynamat. I like the idea of one touch buttons though. I hate holding these damn things down

PyRo9862

Want to make em real fast? I bet I can get my manual window down before you can get your power one down

MrDude_1

.

*buckles you in your seat*


ok now you make your passenger side window go down faster then me.... 1..2..3..go.





btw, have fun trying to turn that crank handle when the door bars of the rollbar are in the way.


naa, i love my electric windows.... and air conditioning.. and quiet exhaust.. and full interior... and running 11s..... :lala:

omnipotentgoku

iTrader: (1)

Anyone have more info on those saturn auto down switches? Is it the swith that performs it or a relay in between ? Also, what models came with this option ?

superv

I was also thinking about removing some of the armiture windings, this as all motors will cause higher amperage to be pulled by motor, ticks gonna be not too high, and not causing a short by disterbing winding laminent

irocbirdbuilder

Hey is ti the supercharged one casue then the car is fast as **** also we got a black 98

galletti

I just changed my switches to new ones from GM, and the speed definitely improved a lot. Now, if we could just get automatic ones. Someone said earlier in the thread that Saturn ones may work. If they have the part number, I'm willing to try them out. I have a convetible IROC and having auto windows would be incredibly cool. You know...let the windows roll down...while I undo the latches...

omnipotentgoku

iTrader: (1)

someone go to one of the saturn boards and get a part number.

DigitalMonarch0

My only worry with the whole bigger wire and added transformer thing is the current state of the window motor.

It would seem logical that the reason that the windows are running slowly is because of their age and condition. Given, I'm not saying that a wire that can carry more current won't subdue the problem, I would just worry that I was prolonging the issue.

I have been having the "slow motor" problem for a few months now and the motors are cheap enough on ebay... I figured I'd just change them this summer.

So my point... How difficult is it to change the power windows in our cars?

StreetRoc85 350

[/list]
Well not to discourage you, but its a real bitch. You have to get special rivets, and then you also have to grind out the old ones. Not to mention all the fun of wrestling with a 500lb piece of glass for 20min trying to get it out of the door. AND you have to take the old motor off of the return spring, which definitly requires a heavy duty vise, and ***** of steel to put your fingers in there. In my opinion, if your window motors arent absolutely burned out, then i wouldnt bother changing them.

Dean92RS

.....do you do with the steel *****?

LOL

Sorry, absolutely could not help myself.

drain89

iTrader: (10)

My 2001 WS6 had an auto down drivers window. GM used a module on it. I know because I looked into making the passenger one do the same and found a 4th gen site on the net who had done it. He has a site and tells how to do it and has part numbers and all....but I don't remember the site.

MrDude_1

its a PITA, but even a new power window motor doesnt solve the problem... the problem is, the window moves too slow. like half the speed of most other windows... its slow. i hate that. my goal is to make them faster while remaining reliable... if i can bump the power to them a bit and the motor still lasts several years, great.. if not, well, i tried somthing

do what i did.. take off your door panel.. then bring a drill, nut and bolt, locktite, and 3" wide masking tape. drive to our local glass shop.

tape the glass to the door so it wont fall... drill out the rivits, take the assembly out of the car... put a bolt thru the saftey hole.. (VERY IMPORTANT... ) then drill the old window motor rivits off..
put the new motor on with the supplied tiny bolts and LOCKTITE them.

then have the guy at the glass shop use their mega huge riviter and rivits to put it back on... they'll have the tool and rivits because you have to pull the same assembly off to change the window glass... the guy did mine for free, but chances are, they'll want $5

with the right tools, its not a big deal... do get a door panel tool though.

omnipotentgoku

iTrader: (1)

Think man.. THINK.. where did you see it ?

omnipotentgoku

iTrader: (1)

2002 cavalier has auto-down windows on the drivers side. Is it just the module that makes that function or is their a relay in between ?

omnipotentgoku

iTrader: (1)

::BUMP::

im seriously wanting to give this a try if someone has info...

drain89

iTrader: (10)

Fukc man that was a year and a half to two years ago when I had it. Sorry but it's permanently escaped me.

Oh, you need to call hawks and order that damn spoiler! Or if you've changed your mind, at least let him know so it don't hold up our orders.......cool?

But back to the subject: Try doing a search on dogpile or google on "WS6+windows". Those are the 2 search engines I use so I would have found it looking for mods on ram airs.

omnipotentgoku

iTrader: (1)

I posted on a Jbody forum about this... this information hay be of some interest.

http://forums.domestictunerz.com/ind...opic=11125&hl=

Brazen

I "beleive" the one-touch window activation on most newer cars, involves a seperate "relay". Should be simple enough to design a circuit for our 3rd gens but I have yet to attempt it. Check it out...

My "guess" on the speed of 3rd gen windows is... gearing and safety<?> As we all know, the motors all seem to be identical so logic tells me that it might be diff gear ratios on the drive unit assembly... just another guess here.

Also... having several children, my thought is since the Camaro/Firebird doors are soooo long and intrude in the rear passenger area, the windows may have been designed to operate slower to give little hands enough time to get out of the way<?>

Oh well... just my $0.02 to ponder... I'll check with our KIA minivan service dept next time (if ever) we go there and ask about there system... very fast windows and one-touch -only- on the drivers side. (yeah yeah... minivan!) ;]

Jim

bm87ta

iTrader: (5)

sorry if im just being dumb but if you put a step up transformer in there wouldnt you be reducing your current on the motor side of the transformer?

and for whoever was asking about where to get relays you can get them a radio shack cheap

MrDude_1

i think so... but then again, it can still pull more current from the wires, so it isnt a issue... like i said in another post, i did it off the car on a powersupply...

cheapest place is junkyard... i once got 15 free one day.... and no, i didnt pocket them... i just showem to the guy, and he lets me take them.

OSU76LT

Here are instructions for adding the express down feature to a 4th gen passenger window.
This should give some idea of what would be involved in adding it to our cars.



http://www.bfranker.badz28.com/fbody/expresswindow.htm

How come I don't recall having much trouble when I replaced my power window motor? I did use bolts to put it back in, but the motor itself came out and went back in fairly simply.

87Formula356

so has anyone gone through and coimpleted these things? have any of you put in the bigger gauge wire yet? don't let this post die! i wanna do the express up/down AND make my windows faster when my new door panels come in! i went to that website and he gives part numbers for gmpartsdirect.com but the part numbers are wrong. also im having trouble with autoloc.com finding the parts i need.

drain89

iTrader: (10)

hehe! lookie what I found guys:
http://www.bfranker.badz28.com/fbody/expresswindow.htm

CaysE

I dunno why nobody just did a search for Saturn power windows here. Seriously.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...+power+windows