4th gen gas tank swap....
01-19-2008, 01:57 PM
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Car: 87 IROC Z28
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4th gen gas tank swap....
ok im gonna do my ford 9inch swap pretty soon and i wanted to get a ls1 plastic tank and put in two AN fittings on the bottom of the tank and run big gas lines and a return line with a external elecric pump for my supercharged motor the stock pump jus wont provide enough fuel to feed the motor past 3000rpm...so i was wondering if the ls1 tank is a bolt in and if not what mods need to be made to make it fit, since im gonna have the rear out anyway i figured might as well just do the tank at the same time and have my lines run and finish teh fuel system and save some weight and its plastic so it wont rust inside and whatnot...anyone with any info please let me know and pics of the mods if any are nesessary would help a lot...thanx in advance .....Alex.
01-19-2008, 03:07 PM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
Its a bolt on mod. For the tank itself at least. Youll have to fab up your own filler neck tho. Check my cardomain site for pics of the install. Ask away if you have any questions.
01-20-2008, 12:27 AM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
if by running "two AN fittings on the bottom of the tank and run big gas lines and a return line with a external electric pump" means you intend to sump the tank, good luck doing that with a plastic tank. It may be possible, but it would be more expensive than sumping a steel tank. You could sump your 3rd gen tank if it doesn't have any problems, look for a '93 (I believe) steel tank, get a fuel cell, or get a fuel cell for for a 4th gen, and bolt it into a 4rd gen.
Here is a picture of the fuel cell for the 4th gens. Starts @ $600. They can also get you set up with a pump, filter, etc.
Neil (the guy with the badass IROC) went through these guys and gave them a BIG
Here is a picture of the fuel cell for the 4th gens. Starts @ $600. They can also get you set up with a pump, filter, etc.
Neil (the guy with the badass IROC) went through these guys and gave them a BIG
01-20-2008, 02:24 AM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
I have a 4thgen LS-1 Z-28 plastic gas tank for sale. It has all the sensors, EVAP (purge canister), fuel sending unit and fuel pump in it ready to go. $100.00 plus shipping, (but I don't know if UPS will ship a gas tank)?
If you need it, let me know.
If you need it, let me know.
01-20-2008, 09:15 AM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
good luck... Hopefully this isnt a street car... If so it will be a pain in the *** to know how much gas you have... your gauge will never read right.
01-20-2008, 10:31 AM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
why wouldn't it. you sump the tank it will be off a little because of the baffling and the extra capacity from the sump (which isn't much) I would use a 3rd gen tank and get a sump installed. then just coat it with a zinc coating (gas tank spray paint.) shouldn't ever have to mess with it. then either mod your stock sending unit like the sticky in the engine swap section of get a sending unit from a carb'd 82-84 f-body. either way if you plan on running a "BIG" gas line make sure you also resize the return the lines are soldered in the sending unit plate trim it out and have a steel an fitting welded to the line cut off the evap lines and weld the spots that are left. you can buy just the sending unit sensor if it ever goes bad so this is a one time mod.
01-20-2008, 10:39 AM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
why wouldn't it. you sump the tank it will be off a little because of the baffling and the extra capacity from the sump (which isn't much) I would use a 3rd gen tank and get a sump installed. then just coat it with a zinc coating (gas tank spray paint.) shouldn't ever have to mess with it. then either mod your stock sending unit like the sticky in the engine swap section of get a sending unit from a carb'd 82-84 f-body. either way if you plan on running a "BIG" gas line make sure you also resize the return the lines are soldered in the sending unit plate trim it out and have a steel an fitting welded to the line cut off the evap lines and weld the spots that are left. you can buy just the sending unit sensor if it ever goes bad so this is a one time mod.
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01-20-2008, 11:09 AM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
why would the reading be off with a 4th gen tank...and im not instaling a sump, im just drilling 2 holes and threading in An fittings for the fuel hoses, and if i end up going with a 3rd gen tank then in going to have to weld two fitting to the lowest part of the tank and run my lines from there....or what kinda fuel pump can i stick in the gas tank that can feed a thursty blown motor do they make a fuel cell that goes in the trunk well or no....
01-20-2008, 11:17 AM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
With the setup your talking about how would it read anything? you not talking about using the sending unit at all so how will it even know how much you have?..... And if you used a 4th gen tank the sender that tells the gauge the amount is different... i beilve ether third gen uses a 0-90 ohm and 4th gen is something like 40-240 ohm...
01-21-2008, 05:41 PM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
ill worry bout the sending unit later...what has to be done to the filler neck?
01-21-2008, 05:51 PM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
I would like to know on the sending unit. I am now running a 4th gen pcm and could wire it to the pcm. Then pcm to dash if that would work?
As for the neck. I read somewhere that all you had to do was cut the 4th gen down some. It has a rubber coupler mid neck that can come apart. Thats where you cut it IIRC.
As for the neck. I read somewhere that all you had to do was cut the 4th gen down some. It has a rubber coupler mid neck that can come apart. Thats where you cut it IIRC.
01-23-2008, 06:20 PM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
cant you just use the thinrd gen pump and sending unit in the 4th gen tank and keep the gauge...but im doing the wholecluster with autometers and gettin a autometer fuel gauge so i am wondering is i can use the third gen sending unit and get teh gauge for those ohms or do i use the 4th gen sending unit for a resding and get a gauge for those ohms......
01-23-2008, 11:02 PM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
That's something I'd like to know as well - can the 4th gen tank be used along with the 3rd gen pump, sender, lines etc (so just a tank swap)? I want to retain the stock guages and just eliminate the starvation prone steel tank we have.
01-24-2008, 06:14 AM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
No It wont.... You guys really should search the topic its been covered a ton by people who know what they are talking about... I don't know all the detail i just know the tank physically fits just the gauge will be a massive problem... The senders are different and they aren't interchangeable. Search you'll get the answers to you questions.
01-24-2008, 07:22 PM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
I appreciate your helpful advice to search. I was under the mistaken impression that this was a forum meant to discuss these cars. At some point topics are covered more than once and rediscussed. If anyone has knowledge to share on a rediscussed topic - it is up to them to share it or decide to post "Go search." At the bar minimum, links to helpful topics or search terms are considered a positive contribution to one of these types of threads.
Now excuse me while I go search and attempt to give something back to this forum.
Now excuse me while I go search and attempt to give something back to this forum.
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01-24-2008, 07:29 PM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
According to this thread:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...k+gas+gen+swap
-- the original carb pickup will not work. The hole in the plastic tank is much larger.
In this very useful thread ( https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fabr...k+gas+gen+swap ) , Super_Kev had this to say:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...k+gas+gen+swap
-- the original carb pickup will not work. The hole in the plastic tank is much larger.
In this very useful thread ( https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fabr...k+gas+gen+swap ) , Super_Kev had this to say:
Search for "4th gen tank" and you will get plenty of information:
-4th gen Gas Tank into a 3rd gen?
-LS1 Gas Tank
-LS1 Fuel Tank (Plastic 99-02 Style)
-4th gen Gas Tank Swap
In short, no major tank installation problems, but there will be other issues to deal with.
I wouldn't do the swap if you don't have a LS1. It will be more work than it's worth to modify the fuel lines and wiring just to adapt to the stock setups, and the weight difference between the two miniscule (I'd guess only 2-3lbs, as I've handled both). The sending unit is also different (40-250 ohms vs. 0-90 ohms) and so if you want the correct ohm reading, you'll have to spend an extra $100 for a new sending unit from a Grand Prix.
I would just install a new pump/sending unit and call it a day... you'll have plenty of work replacing the stock parts as it is, without having to figure out how to connect the new plastic push lines and modify the wiring.
1998 LS1 - 15.5 gallon steel tank
1999+ LS1 - 16.8 gallon plastic tank
-4th gen Gas Tank into a 3rd gen?
-LS1 Gas Tank
-LS1 Fuel Tank (Plastic 99-02 Style)
-4th gen Gas Tank Swap
In short, no major tank installation problems, but there will be other issues to deal with.
I wouldn't do the swap if you don't have a LS1. It will be more work than it's worth to modify the fuel lines and wiring just to adapt to the stock setups, and the weight difference between the two miniscule (I'd guess only 2-3lbs, as I've handled both). The sending unit is also different (40-250 ohms vs. 0-90 ohms) and so if you want the correct ohm reading, you'll have to spend an extra $100 for a new sending unit from a Grand Prix.
I would just install a new pump/sending unit and call it a day... you'll have plenty of work replacing the stock parts as it is, without having to figure out how to connect the new plastic push lines and modify the wiring.
1998 LS1 - 15.5 gallon steel tank
1999+ LS1 - 16.8 gallon plastic tank
01-24-2008, 11:18 PM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
Well, from what I know of a couple of people who did the swap, is that it is nice to have the extra capacity for fuel, it's nice that it will never rust, it's nice to have the purge canister in the back which cleans up the engine bay, as long as the hose clamps are tight it won't leak at the filler neck like the thirdgen tanks do, and it wasn't that hard to adapt the plastic outlets of the sending unit to the factory thirdgen hard lines via Fuel injection fuel hose and hose clamps. They had TPI motor's as well, not LS-1's.
Hope this helps!
Hope this helps!
01-25-2008, 06:36 AM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
Well, from what I know of a couple of people who did the swap, is that it is nice to have the extra capacity for fuel, it's nice that it will never rust, it's nice to have the purge canister in the back which cleans up the engine bay, as long as the hose clamps are tight it won't leak at the filler neck like the thirdgen tanks do, and it wasn't that hard to adapt the plastic outlets of the sending unit to the factory thirdgen hard lines via Fuel injection fuel hose and hose clamps. They had TPI motor's as well, not LS-1's.
Hope this helps!
Hope this helps!
01-25-2008, 08:54 AM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
Nate, so your saying the signal even from an LS1 pcm is not the same as what the thirdgen dash requires?
I figured it was from the sending unit to pcm that was different.
I figured it was from the sending unit to pcm that was different.
01-25-2008, 09:20 AM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
I have no idea if the signals from the ls1 pcm and what the third gen dash would work. But i know for sure that the sending unit to pcm are different... Im only assuming from pcm to dash are different as well... Maybe there not.
01-25-2008, 03:51 PM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
my original tank is TPI not a carbed setup...i dont need the pump to run and the sending unit im going to hook up to a autometer gauge so ill just oder the one for a 90 ohm sending unit and that fixes the problem, i dont need the pump since im using an exernal fuel pump and new lines...so the stock pump and hard lines are garbage..
so all i need is the tank the sending unit and the correct 90 ohm sutometer fuel gauge....thats that, and modify the filler neck correct....
so all i need is the tank the sending unit and the correct 90 ohm sutometer fuel gauge....thats that, and modify the filler neck correct....
01-25-2008, 10:15 PM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
my original tank is TPI not a carbed setup...i dont need the pump to run and the sending unit im going to hook up to a autometer gauge so ill just oder the one for a 90 ohm sending unit and that fixes the problem, i dont need the pump since im using an exernal fuel pump and new lines...so the stock pump and hard lines are garbage..
so all i need is the tank the sending unit and the correct 90 ohm sutometer fuel gauge....thats that, and modify the filler neck correct....
so all i need is the tank the sending unit and the correct 90 ohm sutometer fuel gauge....thats that, and modify the filler neck correct....
The LS1 sender is something like 250-33, not 0-90 , a 90 ohm autometer would work for the stock thirdgen sending unit. you can either get the 40?-240, its something close to that, autometer, then flip the sender in the pickup so it reads backwards, and the gauge will only be a little off, or get the gm sending unit and put it in and use your stock gauge, or a 0-90 autometer.
Yes you do need the stock pump to work, or you are going to have to do a great deal of fabbing for your pickup and an external pump, you cant just pull fuel through the stock pump without it running. My suggestion would be to get the correct racetronix pump for the 99+ fuel tank, get a V6 sending unit as they dont have the intank regulator, and purchase the correct sending unit.
01-27-2008, 09:39 AM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
you dont get what im sayin, im drilling two holes on the bottom of the tank and running a race external pump....no fuel will be going through the stock pump...all i need from the stock setup is the float for the autometer gauge to hook up to...
01-27-2008, 10:46 AM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
and your not getting what we are saying... IF YOU ARE RUNNING A 4TH GEN TANK... Your setup will not read correct on the gauge if you get a 0-90ohm... You need the 40-240 ohm gauge...
If you are running a third gen tank with this setup it will be off but very minimal.
I don't see how you could run your system and it work well on a plastic tank...I don't understand why you just run the stock setup.. Unless your racing in that case... Get a fuel cell... Cuz with your way who knows if that will be approved for races... then if it isn't its a waste of money. Which then makes it pointless to convert to a 4th gen tank if you don't run plastic.
01-27-2008, 02:04 PM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
im not running a stock gauge, im going to run a autometer one for the 4th gen gas tank...that fixes the gauge problem
the tank is getting two bungs for gas lines and a external pump to feed the twin turbo motor...
and all i need to kno now is what ohm is the correct autometer gauge for the 4th gen sending unit......
and as for racing...its a stock tank not a fuel cell, no issues with it..and its not like im going to run the car every weekend.
get what im sayin now...
the tank is getting two bungs for gas lines and a external pump to feed the twin turbo motor...
and all i need to kno now is what ohm is the correct autometer gauge for the 4th gen sending unit......
and as for racing...its a stock tank not a fuel cell, no issues with it..and its not like im going to run the car every weekend.
get what im sayin now...
01-27-2008, 08:39 PM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
im not running a stock gauge, im going to run a autometer one for the 4th gen gas tank...that fixes the gauge problem
the tank is getting two bungs for gas lines and a external pump to feed the twin turbo motor...
and all i need to kno now is what ohm is the correct autometer gauge for the 4th gen sending unit......
and as for racing...its a stock tank not a fuel cell, no issues with it..and its not like im going to run the car every weekend.
get what im sayin now...
the tank is getting two bungs for gas lines and a external pump to feed the twin turbo motor...
and all i need to kno now is what ohm is the correct autometer gauge for the 4th gen sending unit......
and as for racing...its a stock tank not a fuel cell, no issues with it..and its not like im going to run the car every weekend.
get what im sayin now...
What i ment with the racing thing is i don't know if the racing you'll be doing ( no idea on the class you'll be racing) If a modified stock tank will be legal for them. Im not sure if they will say its safe or not... Because you'll be drilling a whole in the tank and them screwing something into it... I don't know... They may be completely fine with it. I would just find out for sure if its legal before you start making it.
01-28-2008, 05:44 PM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
thanx for the info man, ill deal with the track officials if need be
02-03-2008, 03:25 PM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
Here are the pics of the one I have... It's the whole assembly: tank, sending unit, pump, purge canister, wiring, etc...
07-21-2008, 02:49 AM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
Ok, I have an 84' camaro with an lt1/4l60e swap including the pcm.
I'm planning on getting a Racetronix fuel pump kit as well as a full electric Autometer gauge setup.
My question is, what will I need to do to make everything work correctley (including gauge reading)?
How in depth or complicated will this be? (I'm wondering because I'll be paying a shop to do this and I'm trying to figure out potential expense)
Can someone please address one of the original posters questions regarding the filler neck?
Thanks.
I'm planning on getting a Racetronix fuel pump kit as well as a full electric Autometer gauge setup.
My question is, what will I need to do to make everything work correctley (including gauge reading)?
How in depth or complicated will this be? (I'm wondering because I'll be paying a shop to do this and I'm trying to figure out potential expense)
Can someone please address one of the original posters questions regarding the filler neck?
Thanks.
07-21-2008, 05:49 AM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
If you want to run that car on the track you won't be able to pass tech with a gravity feed tank.
You may also want to look into your local laws. I think they have been illegal for quite a while. (due to the fire hazard)
You may also want to look into your local laws. I think they have been illegal for quite a while. (due to the fire hazard)
07-21-2008, 11:43 AM
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Re: 4th gen gas tank swap....
I highly doubt that. The original tank may not be available through GM and the plastic is a factory part so if it works...... tell them to prove you wrong. There is no fire hazard here so I dont know what you are talking about.
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