afremont

I'm tired of my fly away paint scheme especially since the factory primer is allowing it to start rusting. Yesterday I went to HF and bought:

$9 25pk 80grit 6" discs
$9 25pk 120grit 6" discs

I'm just doing the roof and hatch for now, but I will have to do my hood soon. I'm just trying to stop the rust and seal it until I can afford to have things done right. I went today to buy some other stuff I figured I needed. I went to the pro supply place nearby to get the best price and advice I hope. Certainly allot cheaper than an auto store like oreilly.

$4 1 1/2" wide roll masking tape
$21 1 qt etching primer ppg JP215
$20 1 qt etching primer catalyst (smallest bottle it comes in) JH2150
$26 1 qt 2k sealer ppg JP385
$18 8 oz undercoat hardener for the sealer JH3865
$13 1 gl lacquer thinner for cleanup etc
$24 1 gl wax and grease remover (cheaper brand)
$14 1 box nitrile gloves
$1 1 tack rag


I still will need more sandpaper for fine/wet sanding. I also need way more masking materials, but they can be made from newspaper if necessary. I haven't bought any glazing putty still. I also haven't included the price of any tools. Could probably use some adhesion promoter and reducers too, but we'll see if we can get by without them.

We are over $175 so far including tax. I haven't purchased near enough paint for the whole car and we haven't even considered a top coat. Good thing I have a compressor, DA sander, misc body tools, and paint guns.


Oct 22 paint store trip

$5 2" blue economy tape
$5 2" yellow tape
$25 1 quart gray epoxy primer JP375
$9 1 pint hardener JH3770

$47 with tax

scottmoyer

Would using plastic as a cover be better than newspaper? I've noticed that no matter how well the car is masked off with the body shop paper, there is almost always overspray particles that get through. Is plastic ok, or does that not allow for any breathing and may cause other issues?

afremont

I think it would be better, but it costs money so I left it optional. I'll be using it though because it seems to be a faster, better way to mask than stitching newspaper together.

It's really sad. Put a piece of masking tape across the top of the a-pillars to set a sanding guide line. The paint appeared perfect. When I pulled the masking tape off, it lifted the entire area covered by the tape. I didn't quite expect that. I thought the parts that hadn't lifted might be savable by just sanding it down and feathering the edges real good. I will be removing all traces of the blue now. I haven't seen the factory primer lift anywhere, just rust through but I'm removing most, if not all, of it from the roof and hatch just to be sure.

EDIT: Just saw your question about plastic. I don't think you need to worry about breathing or anything. I see allot of plastic being used these days and it looks convenient. It sure stops the overspray.

naf

iTrader: (7)

Paint that gets on the plastic can flake off later and get blown into wet paint. The roll of masking paper is worth it.

For a beginner paint job, the PPG Omni line is fairly inexpensive. You can do the whole car with a quart of base and two quarts of clear, if it's not a color change.

If you get into wetsanding you can easily get into $100+ for compounds and another $100 for pads (3M Perfect it is really easy stuff for a beginner to use). Cheaper stuff will work but may require more effort and finesse.

afremont

That's a good point on the flaking paint, I'll remember that. I'm using their "shopline" paint. I'm ashamed to admit that this is happening outside in the driveway so sealer is as far as I will take it myself. I'm just trying to save the car until I can afford to do better. I figure gray primer on the top side surfaces will look better than it does now.

Maybe I could rattle can some color on at the end.

I haven't been to the supply store for a couple years, lots of new stuff. Unfortunately my last bout with "new stuff" was when I tried using DPLF thinking that it would be just like the DP I used a decade earlier. Boy was I wrong on that. No wonder there seems to be so much hate for epoxy primer now. The original stuff was like putting a ceramic coating on your car. It's not like that now, it didn't seal when I used it a couple years ago on my truck hood. It's got rust coming thru all over the place. That wasn't my experience with the original DP.

I'll wait until I spray this etch and sealer to pass judgment. I hope it's not rocket science now, sure looks like it could be getting there from looking at the paint sheets. Nothing is much like the things I read just several years ago and it's certainly a far cry from how it was done 15 or 20 years ago when someone was kind enough to try and teach me.

As you can probably tell by now, I know practically nothing about doing this, especially these days with all the VOC rules. I'm not a painter, I'm a wrench so I trust the guys at the store to sell me something that will work. Then any failure that occurs will be from my own ignorance of how to do it. I will learn though. You can see where I get my signature line from.

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

Shopline and Omni are the same product with diffrent labels. As of now TGO is the leading forum for rattle can jobs so you can get plenty of help there . The only hate for epoxy is the price, it is the best primer out there.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

I use the thicker brown/red painters paper from home depot for this reason, works great and is like $20 a roll that lasts for 3+ cars

afremont

Update: I bought some more stuff like air-gun filters, plastic, masking paper, epoxy primer, scuff pads, sand paper and a couple of cheap sanding blocks from HF. I'll update the cost stuff later, I don't feel like digging thru the receipts right now. All together I think it's under $100. Since I'm not using the etch or the sealer, I'll subtract that for now too.

Sanded my butt off today and cut thru all the orange rust leaving only brightened metal. Hand sanded the edges that I had been trying to stay away from with the DA sander. I ended up using a few rounds of 40 grit to get all the rust. Wiped it all down with wax and grease remover and let it dry. I then wiped it all down with the GEM rust killer stuff. It turns the dark areas that were under the rust into a charcoal gray kind of color.

Here's some pictures:

Nasty under the spoiler, check yours





Some rust shots:







Final shots after wiping with GEM:

splitface454

iTrader: (1)

My decklid looked just like yours. but was clean under the spoiler.

rdmotors

What color will you be going back with. The blue in the pics matches mine pretty close but never been able to find a spray replacement for touch ups.

afremont

Yeah, I was kinda shocked at the dirt level under there.

afremont

Mine is RPO code 98U or GM code WA9591 which is either "bright blue", "dark blue" or even "ultra blue" depending upon what year and model your 89-91 GM vehicle is. It's a little faded and the camera is probably off, plus the computer, etc. etc. etc. Looking at the door jambs, it's a close match to great looking car that's on the list now.

I don't know where you might find some aerosol touch-up paint. My paint code was only used for 3 years so that might be why you have trouble finding a match. I don't know how large of an area you might want to spray, but maybe you could use an airbrush and regular base/clear to do smallish areas.

rdmotors

Yea I understand. The paint on my hood came off in blisters with alot of black powder under it, was like someone used a guide coat on the hood but then did not clean it off. Under the paint that was on it I found some light blue. I do know the car was painted, badly, but painted with a blue with silver trim. Guess it would be time to check the paint code with the car? Would be the smart thing to do. Thanks !!

afremont

Did some painting today, but not on the camaro yet. I prepped and sprayed the roof of my truck, what a PITA. I did it pretty much the same as the camaro prep. I sanded with 80 grit until it was mostly bare metal and all the orange rust was gone. I wiped it down with GEM rust killer and let it sit overnight. I rinsed it with water this morning and let it dry. Then I wiped it down with wax and grease remover.

I mixed the JP375 paint and hardener with no reducer. I think it should be reduced a little as I got a little bit of orange peel. I used 50PSI and the purple harbor freight gun. I think I like the results enough to try the camaro, but I might reduce it a little to try and do something about the orange peel. I started off at 40 PSI, but raised it and opened the fluid flow a little to try and eliminate the orange peel.

Below are the results:

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

What size fluid tip is on the gun? I spray about 29-30 psi on SATA's, not sure what the Harbor Frieght likes for psi, but 50 sounds high. The p-sheet lists JP 375 as a white epoxy, but it appears to be a gray epoxy by the pictures.

I am at the cup race and will elaborate more monday night.

afremont

They claim it's a 1.4mm, but it may be 1.5mm. JP371 is white, JP375 is gray and JP377 is black. I'm thinking that reducing it 5-10% with acetone will do the trick.

I'm using an HVLP (according to HF anyway) type gun, how do I know what the pressure at the cap is? When I pull the trigger and release only air, the gauge on the gun drops like this:

40 PSI -> 22 PSI
45 PSI -> 25 PSI
50 PSI -> 27 PSI

So you can see, it roughly cuts in half when I pull the trigger part way. That's not the "pressure at the cap" is it?

naf

iTrader: (7)

pretty much

afremont

Really now, then I'm using way too much pressure. I'll try some tests starting at 25 PSI and see how it sprays. It's hot today so I'm not going to reduce it I don't think. Maybe 5%. I've seen some advice to use 40 or more PSI on this gun at the inlet. The paint itself specifies 10 PSI at the cap.

afremont

Masked and almost ready to spray, just some scuffing with the DA to get rid of a little flash rust and then wiping it down with W&G remover. You can see one of my "friends" in the last pic.

afremont

My makeshift paint booth, better than nothing I suppose.

coryprine

iTrader: (4)

subscribed

afremont

Painted the roof and deck. Turned out ok, but its got a little bit of tiger striping in it. It was a little too windy to be painting I think. I used about 30PSI into the gun this time and I also reduced the paint with acetone by about 5% (really a guess more than anything, I just sloshed in a little to thin it down some). It went on pretty good, I didn't have trouble keeping a wet edge and it dried resonably flat with that eggshell glow I love so much. No runs or sags that I could find. Got a little bit of trash and a bug or two in the paint though, but that's to be expected outside. You can see the giant peel mark from removing the masking tape under the area I painted on the passenger's rear quarter topside. The same with the A-piller on the driver's side. I'm going to go ahead do the same thing to those areas.

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

Like your initiative! I decided to get my bird professionally painted due to the sentimental value it has to me... But I definitely plan on painting my next project car!

afremont

Thanks for the encouragement, it's allot of work. The striping is almost gone now that the paint has dried a bit more. I'm really pleased with it considering everything.

91 Droptop

Not sure on your budget but a good gun will make a huge improvement in the way the material lays down, Thet purple gun is just nto going to cut it when you get to the finish coat. This is a great starter kit, good guns a major name and will really help with laying the clear on flat http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraygundep...spx#SLsystemTP

Guns are a small fortune but I highly recomend this setup (right at $150) for a self starter, I use Devilbis and have for years I love their equipment, good luck

adriancws6

nice work i wanna primer my car already but am still stuck on sanding it i think cuz i am using a square sander, its making it difficult to take off the cear coat flakes , but nice job man

afremont

If you don't mind messy, you can use a stripper. I used "aircraft stripper" on the roof and it took that blue off awesomely. Just hosed it off at the local car wash. They make an aerosol can stripper designed to remove base and clear without damaging the factory primer. You might look into that.

As for sanding, I love my 6" DA (dual action) sander. It's amazing at smoothing surfaces without leaving marks. It uses allot of air. My compressor hates it I'm sure.

adriancws6

where can i get that paint stripper at that removes jsut the clear and base paint, because i dont wanna leave it down to its metal? thanks

afremont

I've seen at o'reilly.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...0483&ppt=C0171

I haven't used that one, but I used the same manufacturer's regular stripper.

chops1sc

Subscribed! I am currently working on my 91 RS. Pretty much did the same thing but the whole car is/was down to bare metal. I just rattle canned some primer to keep the heavy rust off until I can afford the real deal. Thanks!!

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

I was going to elaborate, that every P-sheet will tell you what pressure to spray at the air cap. Why the industry does this I cant figure out because there is no way to measure at the air cap. For your application the easiest way to control your pressure is a regulator at the gun. Your beginning pressure doesnt matter, what your are concerned with is what pressure you are spraying at. Dail it in around 31-32 with trigger full open ,air only, and fluid should be around 29-30.

You can reduce 5-10% if its getting peely. I would recomend PPG DT860 (or 870 dependent on temp). Having it peely is no problem at this stage in the game, but trying to get it to flow out smooth now will be great pratice for the later stages. Your tip is slightly on the small size, but will work fine on a budget. I would recomend around a 1.8 for primer.

When you are masking areas such as the pillars (ajoining panels), you want to use a masking technic called "back masking" where you put the tape on the panel and roll it back over itself. This will help to eliminate having a hard line and give it a softer edge. Sometimes hard lines will show up later (even though you sanded) after color and clear are sprayed.

afremont

Will something like this look stupid? I still need to prime my hood and the a-pillars. I have some other bad spots of peeling that you can see in the other pictures. They resulted from removing the yellow masking tape. I was thinking of doing something like this (only straighter) to take car of the bad spots and blend the rear sail panels/pillars into the quarter panels.

Something like this:

afremont

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I don't get the 10PSI at the cap thing when you really can't measure it there and the cheaper guns don't tell you how to figure it out. I sprayed my roof and deck at 30PSI inlet pressure without the trigger pulled. It seemed to go on good, but it was kinda windy so... I also reduced it maybe 5% with acetone. There is an every so slight amount of orange peel, but it's slight. I'm thinking close to the same pressure, but reduced a bit more would lay it down really smooth.

How do you go about doing the first layer on the bare metal. Do you put down a dust coat? Or do you try to get complete coverage in the first coat? Somewhere in between maybe?

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

First coat will be a "full wet" coat. Should be 50% overlap each pass but you may have to adjust (tighten) overlap as you are running a smaller tip.
The only time you use a "dust coat" is for adhesion promoter and on first coat of clear.

For your quarters you can back mask and scuff about 4" or so, from where you want to spray and just let whatever blows into that 4" area blow there. This will help eliminate a hard lines. If you want to spray up to the wing you will want to remove it to prevent the primer from bridging to it.

MYFIRSTZ

If you are using the HF gun with HVLP on the handle and "45 psi max" also on the handle... you want 45 psi as the trigger is being pulled... thats what I set mine at. fluid wide open, fan wide open... sprays great. The HF gun claims to be HVLP but is really more of a high pressure gravity gun.

afremont

Ok then, that will be a major increase in pressure and probably a significant increase in fluid flow too, though I might have that open pretty far as it is. It'll really be coming out I'm sure. I'll try that out on some test paper next time I get to paint something on the car. I need to epoxy the door of my truck so I might just do that next.

My next spray job is the front door of the house tomorrow or the next day when the temperature cooperates, I'll be spraying Minwax helmsman spar urethane reduced with mineral spirits. I sprayed a fish tank stand I built with minwax polycrylic water based urethane last winter. That really cleaned up easy. It came out pretty nice too if I do say so myself. I sprayed it unreduced since I had no clue what to use. Tap water just didn't seem like a safe bet so I didn't try, alcohol might work.

I have no clue what I'm doing, but I spray stuff all the time. I even airbrushed my daughter's face for halloween. Don't get me wrong, I have no artistic or creative skills it's just kinda fun to paint things. Cars are really a challenge, furniture is pretty easy to make look good.

afremont

Thanks, that sounds like good advice. I understand how to do the back taping now to soften the masking line. If the weather holds out, I should be spraying some more later this week.

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

I didnt really catch it before, dont reduce with acetone, it evaporates to aggressively and will make the primer brittle.

I digress, but there are diffrent grades of acetone. Three (3) iirc.

On diagram, post 32, I would recomend wraping your primer to both edges of b-pillar.

afremont

That's interesting. The product sheet specifically says to use acetone, but no more than 10%. Do you recommend mineral spirits?

I'm thinking of trying to put some color on the decklid and hood. If that goes ok, I'll paint the roof and then move on to attempting to blend color into the quarters or just repaint them completely. That should be entertaining, for others anyway. I'm sure I'll learn something, one way or another.

haps

iTrader: (4)

Wait, what are you reducing with acetone? Shopline etch prime says to use JR reducer. I miss something?

afremont

JP375 epoxy primer. I decided not to use the separate etch and sealer products and decided to just use epoxy after using a rust killer on the bare metal. The epoxy datasheet says it's ok to put it over "etched" metal.

haps

iTrader: (4)

Interesting. Never seen acetone spec'd as a reducer for a hardened epoxy. I agree with CT that it flashes too quick. You may want to try the JR reducer if you have any...may flow out a little nicer.

afremont

I don't have any, but I'll be getting some soon. It didn't seem to add to my problems any, if anything I think it actually helped. I'll try the other reducer and see what happens.

afremont

Took the hood louvers off today. Got all 18! of the hood insulation retainers out without destroying them or the insulation. Broke off two of the cheesy plastic posts on one of the louvers with the jamb nuts on them. I sprayed with PB blaster and still those two wouldn't budge without twisting the post off. I think the sealer they put on there is what kept the jamb nut from coming off. I also think that letting them soak for a while longer helped as I didn't break any on the second louver. The trick is to do it like cutting threads, turn one way and then the other a little bit. I don't think it would hurt anything to leave those off, but I'll probably devise some kind of retainer to hold the broken ones. They're hollow so I can use a short screw and washer I think.

Looks like they didn't put clear on the hood under the louvers, but that makes no sense at all. I guess it's just incredibly dull, but it looks allot like uncleared base.

EDIT: Wore out an 80 grit disc on the hood, still lots of blue left, but man the clear was thick. Looked like somebody threw a cup of powdered sugar on the hood after one good pass over the whole thing.

steve87ta

iTrader: (4)

Fyi, I have used acetone to reduce hex crome primer that is epoxy for aerospace and military parts as per manufacters instructions.
Never on a car though. I find having a little hot temp reducer helps when i am not in a booth.
Good luck.

afremont

If it's good enough for aerospace.... Seriously, it didn't act odd in any way when I used it. I don't have much experience, but I think I would have noticed if it did anything other than mildly reduce the paint. It dried to exactly the same dull "shine" that some unreduced paint did, just a little less peely. PPG says it's ok, but they don't say it's ok to use the JR reducer, only acetone is specified in the sheet.

afremont

Today's update, stripped the hood most of the way. Still have a little more work to do, but it's pretty easy now. Should have it epoxy primed by Sunday.



Wheel beautification is this winter's indoor project

Richboll

I'm enjoying this thread more than the last paint thread I subscribed to. I haven't even seen the word Rustoleum yet I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product.

MYFIRSTZ

THAT is a good looking car!! LOVE that color!!