SteveSpohn

NASCAR stopping power for your third generation F-Body!

The Pro-Series 13" Big Brake Kit will provide Nascar style stopping power like you've never experienced before. Equipped with true 13" diameter rotors combined with Wilwood 4 piston calipers for "dead in your tracks" stopping power. This big brake kit will fit under factory 16" wheels!

Kit comes complete with everything needed for installation, includes:

(2) 13" brake rotors (choice of standard or drilled and slotted)
(2) Wilwood 4 piston calipers
Complete set of Wilwood Poly Matrix brake pads
(2) hubs with ARP wheel studs installed
Full set of Timken wheel bearings and seals
Pair of brake caliper mounting brackets with mounting bolts and hardware
(2) Stainless steel braided brake lines with fittings for all years (82-84 and 84-92 ends included)
(2) cotter pins for spindle nuts
Bearing races are installed into the hubs
1LE+ CD-Rom (illustrated spindle modification instructions)

For More Details & Pictures - Click Here

james_85Z28

Do the wilwood calipers have dust boots?

alloy

iTrader: (16)

No they don't. They aren't really needed with the Wilwood caliper design.

I've got over 2000 miles on my Wilwood setup without problem one.

SLP_GTA

iTrader: (1)

it doesnt take much search to see there are other brake options.

With that said, nice brakes Steve but I thought they would have been in the 1k range, but thats allot of product for the money so I am sure it worth it. Also nice to see you have offered allot of new product for 3rd gen cars lately.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

Since I'm the designer and supplier of these kits to Steve, let me address this question for you.

Our kit is the equivalent of the Baer Pro kit #1301045 that sells for $2375. And with the Baer kit you can not use your stock 16" wheels. You must go with 17"'s.

So with that said, we are already $780 less than Baer. Then add in the cost of new 17" wheels and tires to be able to run the Baer Pro kit. So, I think this makes our kit a pretty good value for $1595.

formul8!!

Sounds like a helluva good deal to me!

Dr G

Well done to Dan and Steve!

It seems to be a very exciting time for Thirdgen aftermarket suspension/chassis/braking components!

I can't wait Spring 2004 when Steve starts releasing the other new parts "tubular a-arms, strut tower braces for carb, TBI, and TPI, and tubular k-members. etc" that were mentioned in the post:- https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=200669

Has this kit been tried under stock 16inch GTA wheels?

Thumbs up guys! :hail:

SLP IROC-Z

iTrader: (1)

very cool i wish i could afford those, theyd probably be more then i need. im also anxious for the new tubular front suspension parts.

Dex

What kind of improvement is the 4 piston calipers in this setup compared to c-5 or "Baer" calipers? just wondering some specs on piston sizes. maybe explain how much more clamping force is applied to the c-5 or "Baer" calipers. Just for personal knowledge here
Setup looks nice I the price looks nice too. I expected it to be more! :lala:

alloy

iTrader: (16)

To answer your question here are some things I've learned along the way researching, building, and testing this kit. My sources for this info are mostly the engineers at Wilwood, and other sources such as tech atricles and racers themselves.

Ok, there are two types of brake calipers. Floating (stock or 1LE) and non-floating or fixed. The floating design is based on the principle of “for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction”. Using this theory the OEM's designed the floating caliper. This eliminated a second piston (or pistons) and cut manufacturing costs.

When pressure is applied to the braking system with a floating caliper, the piston pushes the pad on the piston side first, then the pressure on the caliper behind the piston slides the “C” shaped caliper body and applies the secondary brake pad. According to the Wilwood engineers I spoke to about this, I’m told it requires approx. 100 more pounds of pressure to slide the caliper body over to apply the secondary brake pad. Other problems associated with a floating caliper design are uneven pad wear and “pulling” to one side when the brakes are applied due to the sliding pins getting dirty or rusting up.

With the "fixed" calipers supplied in our kit, all four pistons are applied with the same pressure allowing the rotor to be clamped by equal opposing forces. There are no worries about guide pins getting dirty or rusty. A four-piston design allows all the braking pressure to be applied to both sets of pads simultaneously. You are not losing the time and pressure moving the caliper over. And from my personal experience with this setup on my car, I’m noticing much quicker brake application and release times. And since this is a fixed caliper, you are not losing the 100 pounds of pressure moving the caliper body, this results in less pedal pressure needed to apply your brakes.

james_85Z28

I have mainly seen wilwood calipers used in light duty applications like street rods or limited duty like drag cars (for their light weight properties).

How heavy duty of a caliper are the wilwood calipers marketed to be? You mention NASCAR style stopping power but are these supposed to be for serious open track duty as I would assume by the 13" rotors? The caliper size/mass and therefor heat transfer looks pretty small for a road racing type caliper. But then again I've always considered wilwood a good looking but limited application type caliper.


Thanks,
James

91B2L

Let Steve do it, aftermarket industry is VERY small for third generation camaros compared to mustang and fourth generation camaros. There is more aftermarket parts for the PT Cruiser than the third gen. camaro and the camaro is an icon. I extreamly glad to see a company still takes the time to research and build a quality product for our cars. More power to ya Steve.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

The caliper we use with this kit are sized for a 3600 pound and heavier car. They are not "light duty" by any means. I wouldn't consider the wilwood calipers used on winston cup cars to be light duty under any circumstances.

As far as heat disapation, the rotor comes into play much more that the caliper does. The larger the rotor the longer time it takes the brake pad to be in the same area, and therefore gives a larger rotor much more time to cool than a smaller rotor. The additional rotor size also gives a substantial
mechanical "leverage" avantage over the smaller rotors.

The calipers are also aluminum which displace heat 1.5 to 3 times faster than an iron or steel caliper. This type of caliper also is open at the top allowing heat to disapate much faster than a fixed "C" type caliper that covers the top of the rotor. They are also black anodized for better heat transfer.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

looks nice. do those cross drilled/slotted rotors have a zinc plated option? who actually makes them for replacement?

what is the difference between this kit and ssbcs same for under 1,000? nice to see some more options and i like that you can fit them in a 16.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

We do not have a zinc plated option for the rotors at this time.

On the SSBC kit I assume you are referring to the A-123 kit listed on their for $1195 wich converts the car to the 1LE style brakes. This is the only kit I could find on their site.

If you are referring to another kit, please give me a link to it and I'll check into it to see what the difference is.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

no, i'm talking about their 4 piston setup. alot of companies have things available that aren't always on their website. last time i spoke with a representative they had it on display at a world of wheels "autorama" show here in detroit. i woulnd't know where to find out about it on the internet.

as far as the zinc you should make it an available option. often times it's hard for people to find shops that do such work and without a protective coating they don't stay very "new" looking for long. not that it's that important but it can be nice.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

Well without knowing the specs on the SSBC kit, there is no way for me to compare our kit to the one you are referring to.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

it wasn't that big of a deal...if you aren't aware of it then it really doesn't matter.

CrazyHawaiian

Any chances of us getting a real world comparison between the performance of this front kit and a 1LE kit? I only ask because you sell both. This definately looks like the best bang for the buck if you need something more serious than a 2 piston caliper (would be perfect for my roadrace/drift project). But I also know that bigger rotors and more pistons does not always mean better performance. I am looking to compare this against the C5 front brakes. Also, how thick is that 13" rotor? And finally, will it move the offset of the wheels out at all? Thanks!

SteveSpohn

I got an email that things were cleaned up in this post.

I don't know what your problem/hidden agenda is 383, but you're out of line. If I was spamming this board with ads every single day I could see your point. But the fact is I post about new products on here about 3-4 times a year. I do it with the owner of TGO's permission and blessing. He makes the rules, not me, I just follow them like everyone else. If you have a problem with that, feel free to contact him, webmaster@thirdgen.org, and see where it gets you. I've supported this site for a LONG time, and will continue to do so. If you don't like seeing a post about new and innovative components for these cars, then simply click the back button and move on to the next post. No one is interested in your political commentary.

Steve

89_3rd_gen

Thank You, Thank You, I buying this much needed priced kit (owner of a track kit thats not worthy of a track like Sebring) just some Q's.
Do the kits come with shims? My understanding; nonfloating calipers don't like more then .020" missalignment/off center. I don't have a problem with shiming, just wondering.
Thanks for your team's time and efforts.

383backinblack

thanks steve i was well aware of that,

and like i said before i know that quite a few people have thought the same things i have on this topic, and thought it should be discussed.

just because something is the way it is, doesnt mean that im not allowed to question it.....and if you have a good answer or insightful commentary to go along with it great.....because thats the point anyways.

I have no hidden agenda other than satisfying my curiosity as to why some people are allowed (sponsorship not withstanding) to shamelessly promote products here for their own financial benefit, while other people are blasphemed for doing the same or less.

there is no political commentary, i dont know where you got that from....but like i said i wanted to know something and i did glean some information from this, thats all intended....if you take offense to that, then its your own personal problem

383backinblack

PS.

i never said i didnt like hearing about new products here steve, i was just posing the question as to why some people are allowed to do things that other people are not

SteveSpohn

I think the answer to that is quite obvious, because they're not paying to advertise.

This site uses 300 gig a month of bandwidth. If someone wants to make money off of that traffic, then they have to help pay for it. It's as simple as that.

Steve

SteveSpohn

And no offense taken, believe me I have broad shoulders But like I said before, I don't make the rules, I don't own this site. I pay to advertise here, and I help moderate this board. If you have issues with the rules, you should talk to the administrator at webmaster@thirdgen.org. This isn't the place to do it.

Steve

StealthElephant

Looks like I lost my post, Steve, do you ever plan to offer a complete 3rd gen chasis/suspension kit? Like panhard/LCA/etc etc all in one package for a slightly reduced price for the person who likes to buy all at once rather then 1 thing at a time?

SteveSpohn

Just shoot me an email or give me a call and we can work out a package for you. I don't have set packages because everyone has different wants/needs, so I prefer to make up a package on a case to case basis. Give me a ring and we can discuss what you're looking to do, and I can give you some recommendations.

Thanks,
Steve

alloy

iTrader: (16)

So far the the calipers have not needed shimming at all for misalignment. The spindle mounting points for the caliper bracket are machined at the same height. I've not seen more than .004 difference in height of the bolt mounting bosses.

So no shims are included with the kit.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

At this point in time I don't really have 2 cars to compare the 1LE and the 13" Pro kit.

The rotors are 1.100 thick, and the kit does add .300 more offset to the wheel location.

As far as performance, read my 2 posts a little ways up about rotor size and heat disapation, and the difference in floating verses fixed calipers. I beleive this will answer your questions.

zed

Hi Steve,

1. Will you have the Polished Aluminum Calipers from Wilwood available with this kit?

2. Can i send you a set of spindles and have you modify them for me like I can with your 1LE brake kit?

3. How does this kit compare to Wilwoods brake kit for 3rd Gen Camaros?

thanx

zed

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

I do

Send that sucker over and I'll give 'em all the testing you need.


Really nice work Dan and Steve. A few months ago there were only a few options for brakes for these cars and now there's around 6 or so, and Steve offers almost half of them; and not counting custom fabbed kits like I've seen the California guys running. Thanks to you guys for the much needed improvement in these areas of the aftermarket.


Ed, happily offering up the "test mule"

SteveSpohn

Ed,

So you're offering me your car to do some destructive brake testing with?

You're right though, a year ago there were limited choices, and now there are various options for people to chose from.

I'd like to do a Wilwood based big rear brake package to match this front kit. Probably looking at $1200.00 range though, we're looking into it.

We're not making a killing on this stuff, these parts are big money. It's that old saying, "Brakes cost money, how fast do you wanna stop?"...or something like that

I still think the 1LE set up is plenty of brake for the performance street car. Guys who do open track runs, or just enjoy putting their friends through the windshield, then this big stuff is what they have been looking for.

Steve

SLP IROC-Z

iTrader: (1)

this stuff doesnt have to do with suspension but thirdgens need an aftermarket for cold air intakes, maf bodys, interior switch panels, aftermarket gauge packages and stuff. basically look in the summit book and see all the stuff there is for mustangs, we should have that stuff too.

SteveSpohn

1. I don't know, we can look in to that though.

2. Yes, I have that option listed on the product web page. Same deal as the 1LE.

3. The Wilwood thirdgen kit is designed for drag racing. It's stock size 10.5" rotors, just lighter parts. More for weight savings, then increased braking capabilities.

Wilwood makes a ton of brake parts, anything from super light stuff made for midget cars, to massive stuff used in Nascar. So when you see Wilwood, don't think of their parts you see in Summit/Jeg's, etc., these are their top shelf parts that were pieced together to make a bolt on 82-92 package.

Steve

SteveSpohn

You guys ever have anything you feel there is a market for, feel free to email me with your idea. We're always game for new ideas if it's feasible. That's why I post and interact here, user feedback has made our parts what they are today. It's well worth all the harassment I get

We have access to CNC laser cutting, CNC forming, MIG/TIG welding, tube bending, CNC turning machines, CNC lathes, powder coating, plating, etc. We can make anything. I think the reason a lot of these big companies don't have more offerings for these cars is because they don't feel the volume is there to make it worth their while.

Steve

alloy

iTrader: (16)

Well I've been speaking to Dewey316 and he has my old C4 brakes on his car now. Other than rotor thickness and caliper mounting, they are the same brakes. And the caliper mounting has no bearing on performance as long as both the brakes are solidly mounted. Yes the C4 rotors being slightly thinner will come into play eventaully because they will heat up faster that the thicker 1LE rotors, but this is as close as we can get to a direct comparison with what we have to work with.

We are trying to figure a way to do some testing with a Tazzo (Don't know much about it) We have decided to all 4 swap tires for the test, and will probably be using my race tires for this. This will make the test as fair as we can possibly make it.

Now we just need to wait for it to stop raining, and find a place to do this where we won't get arrested

Dewey316

yeah, well get back to you next June LOL

yes it should be a fun test, basicly the ideas i had for testing this, are to do 5 reapead stops from 60, and average the stopping distance. we would of course do it on the same stretch of raod, at the same time, with the same tires, and the same testing equipment. that is about as fair as we can get. both mine and alloys suspensions are fairly similar, even the spring rates and shock/struts are pretty much the same.

it is just a matter of finding room to get up to 60 without being ticketed (1 more ticket and i think i lose my liscense )

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Yes! It looks like this now anyway. What's it gonna hurt?? LOL..

SteveSpohn

Ok, well your car is out. That would give me too much "aero-push" when I take the car up to 140 for some real brake testing!

Steve

james_85Z28

Looks like you should have went with the 13" kit instead of the 1LEs

james_85Z28

**double post**

alloy

iTrader: (16)

Now that's funny

alloy

iTrader: (16)

I've checked on this and the calipers are not available pre-polished from Wilwood. I guess you could take the calipers apart and have them polished, but this would cost a small fortune to have done.

Not to mention that the calipers are black for a very good reason.

Heat disapation.

Chickenman35

Looks very, very good gentlemen Believe me the cost to make something like this is not cheap. Sure you could DIY like I did. But look at the headaches I went through. To get something of this High Quality, that is a bolt on for the masses is not easy to do.

I think we all benefit by having a great supplier like Steve. Great job guys!!!

One question. Are those calipers the Forged Billet Superlites?

Edit: Spelling

alloy

iTrader: (16)

Thanks for the kind words about my kit. Like you I went through many, many headaches and set backs to get to the final product you see pictured. I'd say it was 3 plus months in the making.

And the research still hasn't ended yet. It looks like I'm going to be driving 200 miles this weekend just to check and see if 16" GTA and formula wheels fit with the kit. I'll let everyone know saturday evening if they clear or not.

Axoid

Steve/Alloy,
If you you guys happen to work up a matching drum to disk conversion I would be more than happy to buy/test it. I doubt it would thrash the car any more than I already do in autocross.

The 13" front kit is going to be part of my winter project of rebuilding the front suspension. Thanks a lot guys.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

We are looking into a rear disk conversion using Wilwood calipers. When we get something worked out we will post it here.


Thanks
Dan (Alloy)

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

As far as the rear conversion goes it would seem like it wouldnt take a whole lot to convert the wilwood 93-97 rear kit to fit ours considering the rear brakes for 89-92 and 93-97 are quite similar, just something to consider...

Matt87GTA

Steve, if you don't mind me asking, which caliper is that? They look like they have Superlite pads but don't look like any Superlite that I have ever seen....

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

HA! Gotta be the comedian.....


LMFAO!!!

Ed