Tuning with the EBL
04-06-2006, 10:17 AM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Erath, La
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Car: 85 Chevy Silverado
Engine: 383
Transmission: 4l60
Axle/Gears: 3:07
Tuning with the EBL
Hey can we start a thread for EBL tuning.
The EBL thread is grown rather large and was pre release.
All of us that are using the EBL could share our results and tweaks.
RBob would have a place to vist on his own time and help those that need advice using his EBL. This way he is not having to deal with the same issues as others start using the EBL.
Is this allowed by a junior member to recommend? (MODS)
I could sure use it.
The EBL thread is grown rather large and was pre release.
All of us that are using the EBL could share our results and tweaks.
RBob would have a place to vist on his own time and help those that need advice using his EBL. This way he is not having to deal with the same issues as others start using the EBL.
Is this allowed by a junior member to recommend? (MODS)
I could sure use it.
The following users liked this post:
GrimsterGMC (01-04-2024)
04-06-2006, 10:52 AM
#2
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Erath, La
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Car: 85 Chevy Silverado
Engine: 383
Transmission: 4l60
Axle/Gears: 3:07
Hope this is OK
I am getting a code 23
Do I need to change a option word in my bin or is there something else that could be causing this. My engine does not have a IAT sensor. Do I need to hook one up?
Thanks
OK I turned off the (TPS21 - throttle position sensor failure, high)
and the (IAT23 - intake air temperature failure, low)
NO SES now.
Is this something I will need later on?
Do I need to change a option word in my bin or is there something else that could be causing this. My engine does not have a IAT sensor. Do I need to hook one up?
Thanks
OK I turned off the (TPS21 - throttle position sensor failure, high)
and the (IAT23 - intake air temperature failure, low)
NO SES now.
Is this something I will need later on?
Last edited by sbcrules; 04-06-2006 at 11:11 AM.
04-06-2006, 10:55 AM
#3
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hurst, Texas
Posts: 9,969
Received 379 Likes
on
323 Posts
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Originally Posted by sbcrules
I am getting a code 23
Do I need to change a option word in my bin or is there something else that could be causing this. My engine does not have a IAT sensor. Do I need to hook one up?
Thanks
Do I need to change a option word in my bin or is there something else that could be causing this. My engine does not have a IAT sensor. Do I need to hook one up?
Thanks
As far as the thread, seems like a good idea to me.
I will be glad to help out as I have most of the functionality used in mine. VAFPR, 2-Bar, Cooling Fans, Smart A/C, Shift Light, Valet mode, PE output (use it to control the EGR solenoid which is hooked to the Air Cleaner heat valve), Lean Cruise, etc.
Last edited by Fast355; 04-06-2006 at 10:59 AM.
04-06-2006, 11:20 AM
#4
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Erath, La
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Car: 85 Chevy Silverado
Engine: 383
Transmission: 4l60
Axle/Gears: 3:07
IAT on its way
Thanks I will hook one up.
I did turn off the error flags.
I just started tuning this and would like to get it in the ballpark before I go on to adding all the other options. My next purchase is a wide band. Any sugestions on where and what to buy?
Thanks
Data Logging (WUD) on the way to work this morning, my fuel mileage must have doubled from what I was running before installing the EBL
Should be a very good return on my investment.
I did turn off the error flags.
I just started tuning this and would like to get it in the ballpark before I go on to adding all the other options. My next purchase is a wide band. Any sugestions on where and what to buy?
Thanks
Data Logging (WUD) on the way to work this morning, my fuel mileage must have doubled from what I was running before installing the EBL
Should be a very good return on my investment.
04-06-2006, 11:25 AM
#5
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hurst, Texas
Posts: 9,969
Received 379 Likes
on
323 Posts
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Originally Posted by sbcrules
Thanks I will hook one up.
I did turn off the error flags.
I just started tuning this and would like to get it in the ballpark before I go on to adding all the other options. My next purchase is a wide band. Any sugestions on where and what to buy?
Thanks
Data Logging (WUD) on the way to work this morning, my fuel mileage must have doubled from what I was running before installing the EBL
Should be a very good return on my investment.
I did turn off the error flags.
I just started tuning this and would like to get it in the ballpark before I go on to adding all the other options. My next purchase is a wide band. Any sugestions on where and what to buy?
Thanks
Data Logging (WUD) on the way to work this morning, my fuel mileage must have doubled from what I was running before installing the EBL
Should be a very good return on my investment.
04-06-2006, 11:55 AM
#6
Supreme Member
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: In reality
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
There's a new WB coming to market in the next few weeks, I'd suggest waiting to see if it's as good as it looks......
Trending Topics
04-06-2006, 01:32 PM
#8
Supreme Member
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: In reality
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally Posted by junkcltr
Does that mean a new WBO2 sensor, WBO2 controller, or both?
04-06-2006, 02:00 PM
#9
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: garage
Posts: 4,432
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Engine: 3xx ci tubo
Transmission: 4L60E & 4L80E
Thanks, Good info. I can only hope the Megeaquirt PWC WBO2 is getting near the release stages. I am curious how far off my NTK L1H1 is now from running the engine rich for a while. I think it is about time to get another WBO2 & controller to check how far it may have drifted
04-06-2006, 07:59 PM
#10
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dyersburg, TN
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 1990 Chevy 454SS
Engine: 454
Transmission: TH400
Question..
Hopefully going to try my first startup on the EBL tomorrow, have edited the bin, etc, but wonder about the IAT.
I do not have one right now, and want to add one. What application can i use to buy the correct one? 199? 5.7l TG?
Any specific car to use at the local parts emporium to obtain the correct one would be appreciated.
Thanks.
I do not have one right now, and want to add one. What application can i use to buy the correct one? 199? 5.7l TG?
Any specific car to use at the local parts emporium to obtain the correct one would be appreciated.
Thanks.
04-06-2006, 10:08 PM
#11
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chasing Electrons
Posts: 18,399
Likes: 0
Received 215 Likes
on
201 Posts
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
For anyone not running an IAT/MAT sensor, here are the changes to the supplied BIN that should be made:
Disable IAT Malfunction reporting (uncheck the flag):
Malf Flags - 12 thru 24
IAT23 - intake air temperature failure, low
Malf Flags - 25 thru 42
IAT25 - intake air temperature failure, high
The 'Blend Factor for CTS and IAT' table should be set up for all CTS. To do this set all entries to 100%.
It is better to run an IAT sensor. On the other hand there are successful installations that do not run one. What an IAT allows is for a varience in air temperature to be compensated for. This also depends upon the amount of preheat and manifold heat that is present.
A cold-cold intake will benefit more from an IAT then one that has pre-heat and a manifold water jacket.
RBob.
Disable IAT Malfunction reporting (uncheck the flag):
Malf Flags - 12 thru 24
IAT23 - intake air temperature failure, low
Malf Flags - 25 thru 42
IAT25 - intake air temperature failure, high
The 'Blend Factor for CTS and IAT' table should be set up for all CTS. To do this set all entries to 100%.
It is better to run an IAT sensor. On the other hand there are successful installations that do not run one. What an IAT allows is for a varience in air temperature to be compensated for. This also depends upon the amount of preheat and manifold heat that is present.
A cold-cold intake will benefit more from an IAT then one that has pre-heat and a manifold water jacket.
RBob.
04-07-2006, 06:27 AM
#12
Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 78 Caprice Coupe
Engine: 355
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Not quite tuning but I was wondering for all the stuff you disabled can I just yank the pins? I won't be using any of the stuff you added, and after talking to my mechanic I'm ditching the EVAP stuff so I have no use for pins A3, A4, C1, C2, and C8.
Also my A/C doesn't work because the compressor does not turn on, I was wondering if this is just programming issue or if I need C2 "A/C Compressor Control" which I believe is now "Fan"
I hooked up my original ECM and sure enough the A/C compressor kicked right on. I've got one of Chris's bins so I'll try using his A/C setup but I thought I'd ask anyways since it isn't a guaranteed thing.
Also my A/C doesn't work because the compressor does not turn on, I was wondering if this is just programming issue or if I need C2 "A/C Compressor Control" which I believe is now "Fan"
I hooked up my original ECM and sure enough the A/C compressor kicked right on. I've got one of Chris's bins so I'll try using his A/C setup but I thought I'd ask anyways since it isn't a guaranteed thing.
04-07-2006, 10:11 AM
#13
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chasing Electrons
Posts: 18,399
Likes: 0
Received 215 Likes
on
201 Posts
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Originally Posted by TierAngst
Not quite tuning but I was wondering for all the stuff you disabled can I just yank the pins? I won't be using any of the stuff you added, and after talking to my mechanic I'm ditching the EVAP stuff so I have no use for pins A3, A4, C1, C2, and C8.
Also my A/C doesn't work because the compressor does not turn on, I was wondering if this is just programming issue or if I need C2 "A/C Compressor Control" which I believe is now "Fan"
I hooked up my original ECM and sure enough the A/C compressor kicked right on. I've got one of Chris's bins so I'll try using his A/C setup but I thought I'd ask anyways since it isn't a guaranteed thing.
Also my A/C doesn't work because the compressor does not turn on, I was wondering if this is just programming issue or if I need C2 "A/C Compressor Control" which I believe is now "Fan"
I hooked up my original ECM and sure enough the A/C compressor kicked right on. I've got one of Chris's bins so I'll try using his A/C setup but I thought I'd ask anyways since it isn't a guaranteed thing.
For the A/C you may need to move a pin. I'm going to look at it tonight and post back here. As for the A/C signal to the ECM (pin B8), is this from the dash switch?
RBob.
Last edited by RBob; 04-07-2006 at 10:26 AM.
04-07-2006, 11:34 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Shippensburg, PA
Posts: 680
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 1981 Buick Century Wagon
Engine: 87 GN engine
Transmission: 2004R
Axle/Gears: 3.73
IAT, does anybody know what kind to get. Like from what year/engine/model car?? Or does somebody just have a part number, maybe from standard, ac delco, etc?? Gonna hook it up this weekend and wanna get it installed in its entiredy before I start tuning, except for the N20. Thanx.
04-07-2006, 11:41 AM
#15
Supreme Member
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: In reality
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally Posted by liquidh8
IAT, does anybody know what kind to get. Like from what year/engine/model car?? Or does somebody just have a part number, maybe from standard, ac delco, etc?? Gonna hook it up this weekend and wanna get it installed in its entiredy before I start tuning, except for the N20. Thanx.
One being a *clip-in*, then the pipe thread type (3/8" pipe if I recall correctly).
As far as the thread in ones, there's a plastic one, then an exposed sensor, and then one within a *bulb*. Depending on location, you can even get by with a coolant sensor, thou the response maybe sluggish.
The 86-87 Buick Grand Nationals, Vin 7, use the pipe threaded, exposed sensor version..
04-07-2006, 02:06 PM
#16
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hurst, Texas
Posts: 9,969
Received 379 Likes
on
323 Posts
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Originally Posted by Grumpy
There are several versions...
One being a *clip-in*, then the pipe thread type (3/8" pipe if I recall correctly).
As far as the thread in ones, there's a plastic one, then an exposed sensor, and then one within a *bulb*. Depending on location, you can even get by with a coolant sensor, thou the response maybe sluggish.
The 86-87 Buick Grand Nationals, Vin 7, use the pipe threaded, exposed sensor version..
One being a *clip-in*, then the pipe thread type (3/8" pipe if I recall correctly).
As far as the thread in ones, there's a plastic one, then an exposed sensor, and then one within a *bulb*. Depending on location, you can even get by with a coolant sensor, thou the response maybe sluggish.
The 86-87 Buick Grand Nationals, Vin 7, use the pipe threaded, exposed sensor version..
My IAT sensor is a coolant temp sensor that I had laying around from the original engine that I robbed the TBI off of. Mine is a 3 wire variety that I mounted on the intake and runs both the ECM and the temperature gauge. I had a fan switch in the original gauge sending unit hole in the head. The original GM heated air cleaner setup stays at a fairly consistent temperature, unless I am at WOT and the measurement is pretty close.
04-07-2006, 02:30 PM
#17
Supreme Member
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Ga
Posts: 1,854
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 91 RS
Engine: 305
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Originally Posted by Grumpy
There's a new WB coming to market in the next few weeks, I'd suggest waiting to see if it's as good as it looks......
UPS just dropped off my ZT-2
04-07-2006, 04:47 PM
#18
Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 78 Caprice Coupe
Engine: 355
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.42
"TCC - Enable TCC calculations (0 = stick trans). Reset bit is a manual transmission is in use"
I can not for the life of me find this in there that is the last thing I need to set in the way of TCC.
I can not for the life of me find this in there that is the last thing I need to set in the way of TCC.
04-07-2006, 04:55 PM
#19
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chasing Electrons
Posts: 18,399
Likes: 0
Received 215 Likes
on
201 Posts
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Originally Posted by RBob
For the A/C you may need to move a pin. I'm going to look at it tonight and post back here. As for the A/C signal to the ECM (pin B8), is this from the dash switch?
RBob.
RBob.
The A2 pin is open on the harness connector. Pop the pin out of C2 (Grn w/wht stripe) and place it into pin location A2.
That should do it.
RBob.
04-07-2006, 05:01 PM
#20
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chasing Electrons
Posts: 18,399
Likes: 0
Received 215 Likes
on
201 Posts
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Originally Posted by TierAngst
"TCC - Enable TCC calculations (0 = stick trans). Reset bit is a manual transmission is in use"
I can not for the life of me find this in there that is the last thing I need to set in the way of TCC.
I can not for the life of me find this in there that is the last thing I need to set in the way of TCC.
RBob.
04-08-2006, 05:08 PM
#21
Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 78 Caprice Coupe
Engine: 355
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Well I think I got the A/C figured out, have also got the TCC solved and after my third serial converter I finally got one that works!!! Now time to learn how to tune
First question: for the auto VE should I keep it at the WUD's stock 75-110 Min/Max CTS? What is this?
First question: for the auto VE should I keep it at the WUD's stock 75-110 Min/Max CTS? What is this?
04-08-2006, 05:22 PM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Shippensburg, PA
Posts: 680
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 1981 Buick Century Wagon
Engine: 87 GN engine
Transmission: 2004R
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Love the ebl. Just wondering what to do with the AE. I think that is screwed up. When i stab the throttle is breakes up real bad for a few seconds then goes. I'm just not sure what all the timers and all do. Though the disk comes with explanations, I'm just not sure of the relation to how the car is running.
Side note, RBOB, the % change for the BPC, How is that number adjusted. Is it the difference in % from vacuum pressure to no. ex., my FP @ 20 KPA is 15, but @ 100 KPA is 27, that is about 45%. Do I enter that value in there. Also, does the AE mess up the VE learn?? And a final thing, should I disable the lean cruise while trying to learn the VE?
orry for all the questions, I'm just super excited that this thing runs so much better, but needs more tuning to be spot on.
Side note, RBOB, the % change for the BPC, How is that number adjusted. Is it the difference in % from vacuum pressure to no. ex., my FP @ 20 KPA is 15, but @ 100 KPA is 27, that is about 45%. Do I enter that value in there. Also, does the AE mess up the VE learn?? And a final thing, should I disable the lean cruise while trying to learn the VE?
orry for all the questions, I'm just super excited that this thing runs so much better, but needs more tuning to be spot on.
04-08-2006, 05:48 PM
#23
Supreme Member
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: In reality
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally Posted by liquidh8
Just wondering what to do with the AE. I think that is screwed up. When i stab the throttle is breakes up real bad for a few seconds then goes. I'm just not sure what all the timers and all do. Though the disk comes with explanations, I'm just not sure of the relation to how the car is running.
ie the TPS and MAP AE functions, rather then *finer points*.
*Usually* it's a matter of getting things at least close and then moving onto the finer points. Not to mention every car is different so what may work neat on one car just doesn't on another.
Not to mention you might want to just ramp the timing down faster from *cruise* to WOT timing.
04-08-2006, 06:16 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Shippensburg, PA
Posts: 680
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 1981 Buick Century Wagon
Engine: 87 GN engine
Transmission: 2004R
Axle/Gears: 3.73
I was thinking about the timing too, I used the table that came with the EBL, just keep lowering it at the higher MAP, cause of the knock counts. But I might try using the spark table from the old bin, and just filling in the higher rpm value's. I am also not sure which way to go with the AE, If I look at the o2 voltage when I stab the gas, it goes clean to .850 volts or so. But that is with the narrow band. Has anybody else had to raise the AE higher?, and how much?? BTW, running the vortec heads and still trying to get a better timing table on it.
Thanx all
Thanx all
04-08-2006, 06:59 PM
#25
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chasing Electrons
Posts: 18,399
Likes: 0
Received 215 Likes
on
201 Posts
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Originally Posted by TierAngst
Well I think I got the A/C figured out, have also got the TCC solved and after my third serial converter I finally got one that works!!! Now it's time to learn how to tune
First question: for the auto VE should I keep it at the WUD's stock 75-110 Min/Max CTS? What is this?
First question: for the auto VE should I keep it at the WUD's stock 75-110 Min/Max CTS? What is this?
The 75-110 Min/Max CTS is a window that the engine coolant temperature needs to be within for VE Learn to take place. If the engine typcially runs within this range I would leave it.
The purpose is so VE Learning takes place at the normal engine operating temperature. Closed loop can be entered at a much lower temperature. And if using a WB for VE Learn, these values define the range in which to learn. These values alllow that range to be narrowed.
RBob.
Last edited by RBob; 04-08-2006 at 07:17 PM.
04-08-2006, 07:33 PM
#26
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chasing Electrons
Posts: 18,399
Likes: 0
Received 215 Likes
on
201 Posts
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Originally Posted by liquidh8
Love the ebl. Just wondering what to do with the AE. I think that is screwed up. When i stab the throttle is breakes up real bad for a few seconds then goes. I'm just not sure what all the timers and all do. Though the disk comes with explanations, I'm just not sure of the relation to how the car is running.
Side note, RBOB, the % change for the BPC, How is that number adjusted. Is it the difference in % from vacuum pressure to no. ex., my FP @ 20 KPA is 15, but @ 100 KPA is 27, that is about 45%. Do I enter that value in there. Also, does the AE mess up the VE learn?? And a final thing, should I disable the lean cruise while trying to learn the VE?
orry for all the questions, I'm just super excited that this thing runs so much better, but needs more tuning to be spot on.
Side note, RBOB, the % change for the BPC, How is that number adjusted. Is it the difference in % from vacuum pressure to no. ex., my FP @ 20 KPA is 15, but @ 100 KPA is 27, that is about 45%. Do I enter that value in there. Also, does the AE mess up the VE learn?? And a final thing, should I disable the lean cruise while trying to learn the VE?
orry for all the questions, I'm just super excited that this thing runs so much better, but needs more tuning to be spot on.
The %BPC change is a filter value. The required value is relative to the response time of the fuel pressure regulator. The best thing to do is adjust the value and feel how the engine responds. First get the VE tables in line, then the AE roughed in. The reason I say the %BPC filter needs to be done by feel is that I have yet to see any published data on fuel pressure regulator response times.
I do know that they respond slower (much so) then the ECM. I added the filter to slow the ECM down to enable it to be matched to the FPR.
Lean cruise and VE Learn: if using BLM learn then disable the lean cruise. If using a WB for learn then the lean cruise can be left in place.
Thank you and your welcome,
RBob.
04-09-2006, 12:32 AM
#27
Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 78 Caprice Coupe
Engine: 355
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Originally Posted by RBob
Lean cruise and VE Learn: if using BLM learn then disable the lean cruise. If using a WB for learn then the lean cruise can be left in place.
Thank you and your welcome,
RBob.
Does it automatically choose a BLM for you or is there somewhere else in the bin file that you have to choose a target BLM and it tries to match it? To turn off lean cruise (hiwy codes right?) do I just raise the min mph to something high or is there a better way to turn it off?
----------
Does this chart look nuts to anyone else? I'm not really familiar with this stuff but that really doesn't look healthy. What should I be targeting to fix it? I'm going to delve into this stuff tomorrow and hopefully have a much better understanding of it, but I'm sure I'll have a million more questions.
Last edited by TierAngst; 04-09-2006 at 12:37 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
04-09-2006, 08:15 AM
#28
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chasing Electrons
Posts: 18,399
Likes: 0
Received 215 Likes
on
201 Posts
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Originally Posted by TierAngst
Does it automatically choose a BLM for you or is there somewhere else in the bin file that you have to choose a target BLM and it tries to match it? To turn off lean cruise (hiwy codes right?) do I just raise the min mph to something high or is there a better way to turn it off?
----------
Does this chart look nuts to anyone else? I'm not really familiar with this stuff but that really doesn't look healthy. What should I be targeting to fix it? I'm going to delve into this stuff tomorrow and hopefully have a much better understanding of it, but I'm sure I'll have a million more questions.
----------
Does this chart look nuts to anyone else? I'm not really familiar with this stuff but that really doesn't look healthy. What should I be targeting to fix it? I'm going to delve into this stuff tomorrow and hopefully have a much better understanding of it, but I'm sure I'll have a million more questions.
Easiest method to disable lean cruise is to set the minimum MPH to a high value such as 200 or so.
As for the knock retard display, yes, that is a lot of knock. Can you hear any knock? Wondering if it is false knock from a bad accessory or exhaust pipe hitting the frame.
RBob.
04-09-2006, 09:52 AM
#29
Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 78 Caprice Coupe
Engine: 355
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.42
I've got something that sounds like it rattles when the TC locks up at low a low RPM, I really don't hear the engine knock... when I revv it in park/neutral it sounds like all muscle
04-09-2006, 10:00 AM
#30
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dyersburg, TN
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 1990 Chevy 454SS
Engine: 454
Transmission: TH400
?? DC% ??
I obviously have more tuning to do, but I have a few questions. I have a partial log export i can post here if i need to, but ..
I am seeing some DC% of over 100%. How is that possible? Does that mean it is carrying over some PW from one cycle to the next? or is anything over 100% mean the injectors are static?
Also, my old application ran in asynch all the time. in the EBL file i seen 5 entries relating to asych/synch, but.. does it run in synch mode most of the time? is that what the sPW entry is referring to?
Heres a partial xport, (if i do not mess the table up).
Thanks!
Also, the injectors seem to sound different, if thats possible. but could just be me..
I am seeing some DC% of over 100%. How is that possible? Does that mean it is carrying over some PW from one cycle to the next? or is anything over 100% mean the injectors are static?
Also, my old application ran in asynch all the time. in the EBL file i seen 5 entries relating to asych/synch, but.. does it run in synch mode most of the time? is that what the sPW entry is referring to?
Heres a partial xport, (if i do not mess the table up).
Code:
RUNTIME RPM MPH MAP VE% TPS CTS IAT I/C O2 G/S SA sPW DC% aPW AeDeIdPeDcClLnTc Cl INT BLM IAC AFR WB dTPS tpsAE dMAP mapAE aePW 00:12:26 25.0 34 94 91 61 74 40 74 1013 176 17 97.35 81 0.00 Y N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.2 13.5 10.2 0.412 15.9 0.168 3.983 00:12:26 26.8 34 96 91 73 74 40 74 1018 191 18 116.88 104 0.00 Y N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.2 13.6 15.7 0.626 14.4 0.305 4.761 00:12:26 28.8 35 98 92 81 74 40 74 1013 204 20 111.08 106 0.00 Y N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.2 13.5 14.1 0.534 15.6 0.275 4.288 00:12:26 30.0 35 98 93 84 74 40 74 1013 205 23 104.68 104 0.00 Y N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.2 13.3 11.8 0.397 12.5 0.275 3.204 00:12:26 29.8 36 97 93 85 74 40 74 1013 209 23 96.74 95 0.00 Y N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.2 12.9 8.2 0.275 9.7 0.244 2.182 00:12:26 29.8 36 98 93 85 74 40 74 1013 207 22 90.33 89 0.00 Y N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.2 12.5 4.3 0.153 10.0 0.244 2.029 00:12:26 30.0 37 97 92 85 74 40 74 1013 210 23 87.28 87 0.00 Y N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.2 12.3 3.1 0.122 7.8 0.214 1.709 00:12:26 30.0 38 98 92 85 74 40 75 1035 210 23 86.36 86 0.00 Y N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.2 12.0 2.4 0.122 8.4 0.214 1.633 00:12:26 30.5 38 97 93 91 74 40 74 991 210 23 90.94 92 0.00 Y N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.2 11.9 5.5 0.229 6.9 0.183 2.502 00:12:26 30.5 38 98 93 96 74 40 74 1031 215 23 99.18 100 0.00 Y N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.2 11.7 7.5 0.366 7.5 0.183 2.258 00:12:26 31.0 38 98 93 100 74 40 75 1040 218 24 92.47 95 0.00 Y N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.2 11.6 7.8 0.275 5.9 0.153 1.709 00:12:26 31.5 39 98 93 100 74 40 75 1031 220 24 84.23 88 0.00 Y N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.2 11.6 4.3 0.153 4.4 0.122 1.556 00:12:26 31.5 40 98 93 100 74 40 75 1009 223 24 85.14 89 0.00 Y N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.2 11.5 2.7 0.122 4.1 0.153 1.251 00:12:26 32.3 40 98 93 100 74 40 75 1031 223 24 82.09 88 0.00 Y N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.2 11.4 2.0 0.107 3.8 0.122 1.160 00:12:26 32.0 41 98 93 100 74 40 75 1013 228 24 81.18 86 0.00 Y N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.2 11.3 1.2 0.076 3.1 0.122 1.007 00:12:26 32.3 41 98 93 100 74 40 75 1013 230 24 80.87 86 0.00 Y N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.2 11.3 0.8 0.076 2.8 0.122 1.007 00:12:26 32.5 42 98 93 100 74 40 75 1031 230 24 74.16 80 0.00 Y N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.2 11.3 0.8 0.076 2.5 0.000 0.381 RUNTIME RPM MPH MAP VE% TPS CTS IAT I/C O2 G/S SA sPW DC% aPW AeDeIdPeDcClLnTc Cl INT BLM IAC AFR WB dTPS tpsAE dMAP mapAE aePW 00:12:27 33.0 42 98 93 100 74 40 75 991 230 24 74.77 82 0.00 Y N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.1 11.2 0.4 0.076 2.5 0.000 0.381 00:12:27 33.3 43 98 93 100 74 40 75 1027 237 25 70.80 78 0.00 N N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.1 11.2 0.4 0.000 1.9 0.000 0.000 00:12:27 34.0 44 98 93 100 74 40 75 1040 237 25 70.50 79 0.00 N N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.1 11.2 0.4 0.000 2.2 0.000 0.000 00:12:27 34.0 44 98 93 100 74 40 75 1018 239 25 71.11 80 0.00 N N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.1 11.3 0.4 0.000 1.6 0.000 0.000 00:12:27 34.3 44 98 93 100 74 40 75 996 242 25 70.80 80 0.00 N N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.1 11.3 0.4 0.000 0.9 0.000 0.000 00:12:27 34.8 44 98 93 100 74 40 75 1022 242 25 70.80 82 0.00 N N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.1 11.4 0.4 0.000 1.3 0.000 0.000 00:12:27 34.8 45 97 93 100 74 40 75 987 246 25 70.50 81 0.00 N N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.1 11.5 0.4 0.000 0.3 0.000 0.000 00:12:27 35.5 46 98 94 100 74 40 75 1000 248 25 71.11 84 0.00 N N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.1 11.7 0.4 0.000 0.6 0.000 0.000 00:12:27 35.0 46 98 94 100 74 40 75 1013 250 25 71.11 82 0.00 N N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.1 11.7 0.4 0.000 0.6 0.000 0.000 00:12:27 35.8 47 98 94 100 74 40 75 1018 254 25 71.11 84 0.00 N N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.1 11.8 0.4 0.000 0.6 0.000 0.000 00:12:27 35.8 47 97 94 100 74 40 75 1013 254 25 71.11 84 0.00 N N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.1 11.9 0.4 0.000 0.6 0.000 0.000 00:12:27 36.3 48 97 93 100 74 40 75 1018 255 25 70.50 85 0.00 N N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.1 11.9 0.4 0.000 0.0 0.000 0.000 00:12:27 37.0 48 97 93 100 74 40 75 1000 255 26 70.50 86 0.00 N N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.1 12.0 0.4 0.000 0.0 0.000 0.000 00:12:27 36.8 49 97 93 100 74 40 75 1022 255 26 70.50 86 0.00 N N N Y N Y N N 1 128 126 144 12.1 12.0 0.4 0.000 0.0 0.000 0.000
Also, the injectors seem to sound different, if thats possible. but could just be me..
Last edited by 7Point4; 04-09-2006 at 10:21 AM.
04-09-2006, 10:03 AM
#31
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chasing Electrons
Posts: 18,399
Likes: 0
Received 215 Likes
on
201 Posts
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Originally Posted by TierAngst
I've got something that sounds like it rattles when the TC locks up at low a low RPM, I really don't hear the engine knock... when I revv it in park/neutral it sounds like all muscle
My recommendation is to have the distributor base timing set at 0 degrees. Also set this in the bin as the Initital timing. Then set up the EBL timing tables to match up with the one below. Use the 4800 RPM row for 4800 up to 6400. And the 30 MAP column out to 20 Kpa MAP. Watch the 35, 45, 55, and 65 KPa columns, they don't exist in the EBL spark table, so just skip them. Where the -9's are use 0.
Here is the stock AYKC timing, adjusted for bias's and slope. These are the actual SA values in degrees. Note the -9 deg. areas, the max retard is set to -3.6 degrees. So that is the max negative timing that will be set, even though the SA table has more.
Code:
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ; Actual SA ;-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ; ; MAP 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 90 95 100 KPa ; RPM ; 400 18 18 18 18 17 15 13 11 10 7 6 3 3 3 3 ; 600 18 18 18 18 17 17 15 13 10 7 6 3 0 -9 -9 ; 800 20 20 20 18 17 16 12 8 7 7 6 5 0 -9 -9 ; 1000 21 21 21 19 18 16 16 10 7 7 6 5 0 -9 -9 ; 1200 21 21 21 19 19 17 16 12 8 8 5 5 3 3 2 ; 1600 23 22 22 21 19 18 16 12 10 8 5 4 0 2 4 ; 2000 27 25 23 22 22 22 18 15 12 10 9 9 2 2 6 ; 2400 27 27 27 26 25 21 18 17 16 12 10 7 2 6 8 ; 2800 27 27 27 28 25 22 18 17 18 14 12 11 7 10 10 ; 3200 27 27 27 28 25 22 20 17 18 14 12 12 12 10 10 ; 3600 27 27 27 28 25 22 20 17 18 12 12 11 11 10 10 ; ; ; Slope starts at 3600 RPM, ends at 4800 rpm, 4 degrees per 1000 rpm ; ; ; 4000 31 31 31 32 29 26 24 21 22 16 16 15 15 14 14 ; 4400 35 35 35 36 33 30 28 25 26 20 20 19 19 18 18 ; 4800 39 39 39 40 37 34 32 29 30 24 24 23 23 22 22 ; ;--------------------------------------------------------------------------
RBob.
04-09-2006, 10:51 AM
#32
Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 78 Caprice Coupe
Engine: 355
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Awesome, thanks. I got that put in the SA Main and extended and the lean cruise turned off so now I'm going to go do some VE learn with the wud and will report back later.
04-09-2006, 10:53 AM
#33
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chasing Electrons
Posts: 18,399
Likes: 0
Received 215 Likes
on
201 Posts
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Originally Posted by 7Point4
I obviously have more tuning to do, but I have a few questions. I have a partial log export i can post here if i need to, but ..
I am seeing some DC% of over 100%. How is that possible? Does that mean it is carrying over some PW from one cycle to the next? or is anything over 100% mean the injectors are static?
Also, my old application ran in asynch all the time. in the EBL file i seen 5 entries relating to asych/synch, but.. does it run in synch mode most of the time? is that what the sPW entry is referring to?
Heres a partial xport, (if i do not mess the table up).
Thanks!
Also, the injectors seem to sound different, if thats possible. but could just be me..
I am seeing some DC% of over 100%. How is that possible? Does that mean it is carrying over some PW from one cycle to the next? or is anything over 100% mean the injectors are static?
Also, my old application ran in asynch all the time. in the EBL file i seen 5 entries relating to asych/synch, but.. does it run in synch mode most of the time? is that what the sPW entry is referring to?
Heres a partial xport, (if i do not mess the table up).
Thanks!
Also, the injectors seem to sound different, if thats possible. but could just be me..
The RPM is divided by 100. With 26.8 being 2680 RPM.
The sPW (sync PW) being multiplied by 10. With 116.88 being 11.688 mSec.
In the first row the AE PW is 4 mSec, in the second row it is 4.8 mSec (rounded). This is 38% and 48% of the total time available.
Here is how to 'read' the AE information:
dTPS The delta TPS% values used to look up the TPS AE contribution (shows where in table the tpsAE value is retrieved from).
tpsAE The amount of AE fuel from the TPS AE table (in mSec)
dMAP The delta MAP value (KPa) used to look up the MAP AE contribution
mapAE The amount of AE fuel from the MAP AE table (in mSec)
aePW Final AE fuel that is added to the sync PW. This value is the sum of the TPS and MAP AE, then modified by the coolant comp value and the RPM value (from those tables).
The stock EBL BIN is setup to run in sync mode. It can be changed to run async all of the time. To do this set the low/high enter/exit PW values to large values (usually greater then 13 mSec). These are the Async transition Hi and Lo values in the Injector Terms area (INJ).
RBob.
04-09-2006, 12:03 PM
#34
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chasing Electrons
Posts: 18,399
Likes: 0
Received 215 Likes
on
201 Posts
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Originally Posted by liquidh8
I was thinking about the timing too, I used the table that came with the EBL, just keep lowering it at the higher MAP, cause of the knock counts. But I might try using the spark table from the old bin, and just filling in the higher rpm value's. I am also not sure which way to go with the AE, If I look at the o2 voltage when I stab the gas, it goes clean to .850 volts or so. But that is with the narrow band. Has anybody else had to raise the AE higher?, and how much?? BTW, running the vortec heads and still trying to get a better timing table on it.
Thanx all
Thanx all
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...ark-table.html
As for the AE, if the engine chugs a little then goes, it is too much AE. If you get a cut-out and/or pop then it is not enough AE. Can also look at the INTegrator during/after the period of AE. If it is dropping then too much AE, and if increasing then not enough.
A slight increase in the INT along with good throttle response is the ideal situation.
RBob.
04-09-2006, 01:19 PM
#36
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chasing Electrons
Posts: 18,399
Likes: 0
Received 215 Likes
on
201 Posts
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Originally Posted by Val Snyder
When setting up a fuel table from the 7747 to EBl, can I use only the no1 table or must the #2 be added to it when entering? thanks, Val
RBob.
04-09-2006, 01:47 PM
#37
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dyersburg, TN
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 1990 Chevy 454SS
Engine: 454
Transmission: TH400
Originally Posted by RBob
The stock EBL BIN is setup to run in sync mode. It can be changed to run async all of the time. To do this set the low/high enter/exit PW values to large values (usually greater then 13 mSec). These are the Async transition Hi and Lo values in the Injector Terms area (INJ).
RBob.
RBob.
Hmm.. tried setting both values to 13000 (13 msec) and it would start and idle but just barely. It reported 0% DC and 0 PW at idle, and tapping the throttle would barely rev the engine, but still no pw or dc reported.
??
Thanks for your time!!
04-09-2006, 06:37 PM
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Shippensburg, PA
Posts: 680
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 1981 Buick Century Wagon
Engine: 87 GN engine
Transmission: 2004R
Axle/Gears: 3.73
rbob, thanx for the tip on the AE, going to log and look into that. As for the vortec spark table, there are a few tables posted, any Idea which on to use?? The one on the bottom?? I tried one of them but don't remember. Has anyone else tried the table with success?? Thanx all.
04-10-2006, 08:29 AM
#40
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chasing Electrons
Posts: 18,399
Likes: 0
Received 215 Likes
on
201 Posts
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Originally Posted by 7Point4
Hmm.. tried setting both values to 13000 (13 msec) and it would start and idle but just barely. It reported 0% DC and 0 PW at idle, and tapping the throttle would barely rev the engine, but still no pw or dc reported.
??
Thanks for your time!!
??
Thanks for your time!!
To convert from a sync pulse to an async pulse the table called Async vs. RPM is used. This table needs to be set up according to the engine cylinder count. Not unusual for the conversion to not be perfect, but it should run better then what you are seeing. The async PW value should show up in the aPW column.
RBob.
04-10-2006, 07:12 PM
#41
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chasing Electrons
Posts: 18,399
Likes: 0
Received 215 Likes
on
201 Posts
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Originally Posted by 7Point4
Hmm.. tried setting both values to 13000 (13 msec) and it would start and idle but just barely. It reported 0% DC and 0 PW at idle, and tapping the throttle would barely rev the engine, but still no pw or dc reported.
??
Thanks for your time!!
??
Thanks for your time!!
Since then I haven't used async mode on modified engines.
I'll let you know what I find.
RBob.
04-10-2006, 07:17 PM
#42
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chasing Electrons
Posts: 18,399
Likes: 0
Received 215 Likes
on
201 Posts
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Originally Posted by Fast355
See the problem here?
RBob.
04-10-2006, 08:33 PM
#43
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hurst, Texas
Posts: 9,969
Received 379 Likes
on
323 Posts
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Originally Posted by RBob
Has to be a trick question. I've looked at the log and other then being a little rich, all I see is a Van that just blew off an SUV.
RBob.
RBob.
Did it strike you weird that I am running 85 with only 35ish % TPS on what appeared to be level ground.
Right after this, I blew his doors off.
04-10-2006, 09:20 PM
#44
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Erath, La
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Car: 85 Chevy Silverado
Engine: 383
Transmission: 4l60
Axle/Gears: 3:07
This tuning is addictive. I think I have done about all I can do until the Wide Band comes in. RBob this EBL is awesome. Each run I can feel it getting more responsive and the power band more defined, I wish I had access to a Dyno. so I work on my timing (vortecs) maybe the Wideband will help me out here.
I tried some of the vortec SA tables posted in other threads but it still has a lot of counts around the 2800 RPM range (high map). I guess this could be a lean mixture causing this. Reading all the post and learning something new every day.
Thanks:
Small Block Chevy's RULE!!
I tried some of the vortec SA tables posted in other threads but it still has a lot of counts around the 2800 RPM range (high map). I guess this could be a lean mixture causing this. Reading all the post and learning something new every day.
Thanks:
Small Block Chevy's RULE!!
04-10-2006, 09:28 PM
#45
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hurst, Texas
Posts: 9,969
Received 379 Likes
on
323 Posts
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Originally Posted by sbcrules
This tuning is addictive. I think I have done about all I can do until the Wide Band comes in. RBob this EBL is awesome. Each run I can feel it getting more responsive and the power band more defined, I wish I had access to a Dyno. so I work on my timing (vortecs) maybe the Wideband will help me out here.
I tried some of the vortec SA tables posted in other threads but it still has a lot of counts around the 2800 RPM range (high map). I guess this could be a lean mixture causing this. Reading all the post and learning something new every day.
Thanks:
Small Block Chevy's RULE!!
I tried some of the vortec SA tables posted in other threads but it still has a lot of counts around the 2800 RPM range (high map). I guess this could be a lean mixture causing this. Reading all the post and learning something new every day.
Thanks:
Small Block Chevy's RULE!!
04-10-2006, 09:57 PM
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Shippensburg, PA
Posts: 680
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 1981 Buick Century Wagon
Engine: 87 GN engine
Transmission: 2004R
Axle/Gears: 3.73
fast, there isn't any warm spark bias with that right?? Using the ebl bin? I just modded a sa table and it kinda looks similar, gonna try it tomorrow on the way to work. Thanx, that may even work better on my engine than what I have.
04-10-2006, 11:12 PM
#47
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BPW + Burst
Wow! Quite the job on the XDF! Of course more questions, how does a BPW of 122 relate to INJ?What does the Nalpha affect? What does burst in the knock describe? No doubt there will be many more questions to come,Thank you for such a complete description of function, I just don't comprehend all of the functions,Great job, Thanks, Val
04-10-2006, 11:25 PM
#49
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hurst, Texas
Posts: 9,969
Received 379 Likes
on
323 Posts
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Originally Posted by sbcrules
Fast355;
Where is your base timing set?
Where is your base timing set?
Check your email.
Here is a screen shot of the timing advance on my engine @ WOT.d
Last edited by Fast355; 04-10-2006 at 11:45 PM.
04-11-2006, 01:25 AM
#50
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,843
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Car: 91 Camaro RS Convertible
Engine: 305 TBI
Transmission: 5-Speed
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Originally Posted by Fast355
6* BTDC, but the EBL bin is set at 6*. They cancel for 0*.
Check your email.
Here is a screen shot of the timing advance on my engine @ WOT.d
Check your email.
Here is a screen shot of the timing advance on my engine @ WOT.d
