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So I applied -1 offset to the SA from 2000 to 3200(peak torque?) up to 80 kpa. Definitely seemed to like it but it could be in my head. Is this the way I should be going about it? Keep dropping a degree and see how she feels, focusing on this area? Then when I feel loss of power bump back up where I was last? Then pretty much do the same in the other direction going up the rpm range to around 5k? Don't think the tpi has much after that.
whatever the engine responds positively too. Try more spark in those areas. Better or worse? Worse, go back to what it was. Better, try a little more pending knock counts.
Keep the changes small and one at a time. You'll be fine. Keep note of which tune you know it for sure ran good on and you can always go back.
So in a perfect world am I chasing 128 BLM under throttle? Then *** meter for timing? Under PE it drops pulling fuel and always climbs back up to 128 for both BLM and INT. she usually stays around 14/7 too until I stab the throttle.
just an update, I pulled 3 degrees total timing from 2k to 4800 and it def seemed to respond from 2-35ish. Tonight I dropped any number that was higher than 35 (there was a lot in the 40s) and def seems much better. Been reading these AFR heads really respond to less timing. Set all those same numbers to 32 and we'll do a run tomorrow. This is starting to get fun now, only taken 10-15 years.
Hello again, think I'm getting the hang of this but would still appreciate any advice I can get. i have now changed the spark table from 2k-5k. from 2k-3600 she seems to like 33 degrees and been messing around with 36k-5k from 32 up to 35, not sure if there's any gains and only a couple knock counts. viewing datalogger she shows a consistent 117 BLM at WOT or damn close, really sticks right to it. I haven't done any VE learns while adjusting timing. The fuel pressure is at 45 and DC% never goes past 60-70. Will the VE learns clean this up or am I too far out and should bump up the pressure? I was planning on getting the timing where I think it's best and run the VE learns for the final draft.
If it's running fine, I'd leave the fuel pressure. If it were too rich I'd knock it down but 45 with the vacuum disconnected isn't all that high.
Leave the timing a little conservative if you're on the street with common pump gas. See if a ve learn wants to change much. If it's close, I'd compare the drive between the 2 and pick whether the earlier tune or ve learn tune was better. Use that.
super long thread to go back thru, but does anyone remember if anyone has looked into or asked about using an output to control cooling fan as a pwm for the newer brushless fans? I put a 200$ 700watt brushless c7 fan on my c6 and it's just amazing. would love to fab one up on the 3rd Gen if ebl could control it and I didn't need an aftermarket controller that costs more than the fan lol.
I just finished updating my 5.7L TBI, 700R4 trans, to a Comp Cam 08-430-8 roller cam, 224/224° @ 0.050", .525/.525", and 1.5 full roller rockers. I have a bored 46mm Throttle Body (right now running 20PSI with an 18LB spring), on an Edelbrock 3704 intake bored to 48mm, Summit Racing 162108 2.02/1.60" 62cc chamber fast burn design aluminum heads, shorty headers, JBL Y pipe to 3" high flow cat, and Borla Pro SX straight through muffler.
Now I need to tune my EBL Flash-II with a WBO2. Does anyone have a .bin I can start with? Maybe from an LT1 or such? TIA
I am thinking of sending in my 7727 ecm out of a 90 corvette to have converted to ebl P4, is it better to send in the hole case or remove the circuit board and just send that in, I can solder half way descent so am considering just ordering the board and diy it. recommendation's appreciated.
If you can solder correctly, DYI.
I also have a '90 Corvette, and I was under the impression that these cars with the digital dash and the CCM(?) have problems with connecting to the tuning software. Has this changed?
Hi, I installed B&M 80212 transmission oil temp gauge. It gets positive from the ignition switch, ground and a negative from the temperature sender. I don't trust the gauge itself. Is there a way to use its wires and hook it to the EBL?
Thank you.
The EBL has connections for adding more indications such as fuel pressure which I have done. But the transmitters need to work with a voltage range of 0-5 volts D.C. As far as I know a 12v temperature transmitter would not work. But I could be wrong. If you take a look at the stock ecm voltages on the sensors like the TPS they all work on 0-5 volts.
Hi,
I took a WOT log a few days ago (attached as PDF). The PE - AFR command is 12.8 but very quickly it goes 12. What should I look for?
I also attach my current BIN.
Thank you.
Not to derail anything here, but once EBL Flash II is installed into an ECM, does the original number designation of that ECM matter anymore?
For instance if I have a 7747 ECM running my engine currently, and I swapped in a 7746 ECM with the Flash II upgrade ( or any of the other ECM's compatible with the Flash II system) would that matter?
Not to derail anything here, but once EBL Flash II is installed into an ECM, does the original number designation of that ECM matter anymore?
For instance if I have a 7747 ECM running my engine currently, and I swapped in a 7746 ECM with the Flash II upgrade ( or any of the other ECM's compatible with the Flash II system) would that matter?
If I understand you correctly , no I don’t think it matters. As long as all the pins are in the same place. If I remember right my ecm was originally from a caprice.
What jonnyph1 posted. What makes the 17 ECMs different, is the on-board, soldered in, chips that contain 2/3s of the cal & code. This code is disabled once the EBL Flash board is installed and is not used.
The EBL board expands the PROM (Flash) space and runs its own firmware and calibration layout.
Those 17 ECMs all run the same hardware, so it is an easy change. Although the late B-Body cars use a different output pin for the A/C compressor control. So a single terminal/wire needs to be moved to accommodate this. Not a big deal.
Awesome!
Does the Flash II upgrade change anything to do with limp home mode or fail soft mode?
I have only been digging into ECM concepts for a few months, but as I understand it, limp home/RFD data is contained on the smaller chip (Calpak?)
I know it would be an unusual circumstance to even have to run the engine on that data, but I feel like it would be good to have just in case.
(Edit after doing some googling):
Originally Posted by RBob
There will be limp mode. How well it works depends upon how far from the stock injector flow rate the injectors are. Try flashing the ECM with the engine running. If it continues to run decent then the limp mode calibration is close.
If you've doubled the injector flow, good chance that the engine will flood and stall. In this case I don't recommend the above test. Might be needing to change spark plugs to get it to fire again.
A bit more comment on limp mode. GM did away with it when they released the Flash based ECMs. The reason is that Flash is much more reliable then EPROMs. Getting a bit flip on an EPROM is common, not so with Flash.
RBob.
Thanks!
Last edited by DrPockets; Apr 6, 2023 at 07:55 AM.
Awesome!
Does the Flash II upgrade change anything to do with limp home mode or fail soft mode?
I have only been digging into ECM concepts for a few months, but as I understand it, limp home/RFD data is contained on the smaller chip (Calpak?)
I know it would be an unusual circumstance to even have to run the engine on that data, but I feel like it would be good to have just in case.
Thanks!
That is an older post of mine that is for the original EBL Flash system. The current EBL Flash-II does not have limp mode. It wasn't worth the trouble it was causing (as outlined in the above quoted post).
It also makes it easier to do back-to-back VE Learns or other tuning. Just leave the engine at idle and flash in the new BIN. The engine will immediately shut off due to no fuel. After the flash completes (3 - 4 seconds), tap the key to restart.
As for fail soft modes, the EBL Flash systems will still create default values for when a sensor is deemed bad. And continue to run the engine as best as it can.
Hey All,
This last fall I got the Dynamic EFI installed and the vehicle is running a little rich I think. i put on AFR heads, MiniRam and upgraded the cam when I installed wideband o2 and EBL.. I think the the EBL is in a learning mode, but I dont know what base tune the guy put on it when he installed it, i cant get ahold of him to ask any questions. So it looks like I am going to have to start over from scratch.. What is a good base file or starting point that I can start from. I have read a little into the tuning part, but its alot different than HPTuners I am use to using now.. I just really need some advise, I dont need any smart comments on how dumb I am.. maybe point me in the way of a base file or something.. constructive criticism..
If it can use $8D and $DA3 style values for VE, AE, MAT and PE tables, etc, I'd recommend starting with the $DA3 values straight up. See my latest posts in the Miniram start bin thread....
how does it run now overall besides being a little rich? if it's a good driving map. I feel like it would be eaiser to start with what you have currently and clean it up a bit using some logging?
If it can use $8D and $DA3 style values for VE, AE, MAT and PE tables, etc, I'd recommend starting with the $DA3 values straight up. See my latest posts in the Miniram start bin thread....
Pulsing fuel pressure and WB02.
I'm posting here because I'm using EBL with WinLogView and am seeing pulsing fuel pressure and WB02 readings. I've posted a graph below from WinLogView, zoomed in to about one second per vertical division and am seeing up to 4-5 tenths of a psi of surging (blue trace), and about a half a point of WB02 surge(yellow) about once per second with smaller bumps in-between. (The EBL reports 16 times per second)
The graph also shows RPM (red), NB02(green),sPW (light purple), and Duty Cycle (blue)
Is this normal, or at least nothing to worry about? If not, any suggestions for a fix?)
Edit: I see that the EBL allows filtering and recommends 30% for fuel pressure gauges, so I guess I still have a question about the WB02; are those fluctuations normal? If so, I can filter that point as well to smooth out the display and log.
Hi,
I have an EBL working unit with AEM WB. Is it possible to connect a transmission sender to one of the EBL channel?
Its a B&M 80212 Transmission Temperature Gauge Kit. There are three wires to the pod itself: positive, ground and a negative to the temperature sender.
Hi,
I have an EBL working unit with AEM WB. Is it possible to connect a transmission sender to one of the EBL channel?
Its a B&M 80212 Transmission Temperature Gauge Kit. There are three wires to the pod itself: positive, ground and a negative to the temperature sender.
Thanks.
The EBL needs a 0-5v signal into an ADC channel. The sensor is likely thermistor-based, so you 'll need do find which thermistor it is and then find a signal conditioner that has that as an input and 0-5v as an output over the range of temperatures you're interested.. The WUD won't display a gauge for it, but it will create a datalog. You can use WinLog-EBL to create a Windows gauge for the ADC channel (and up to 50 or so other logged points) and configure a translation table to dislpay deg F (or C) correctly
.
Thanks for your response. I assume the temperature already sends volts ref? no?
If the gauge is connected to the sensor, the voltage at the terminal of the sensor is as shown in that table, assuming the table is specific to the B&M 80212 gauge/sensor combo. But because the gauge/sensor is supplied at 12v, if you lose the ground to the sensor there will be 12v at the input to the ADC which will destroy it - assuming the gauge internals are creating a voltage divider. I haven't used a thermistor sensor (yet?) for an input to the EBL, but if I were I'd use a 5V DC power supply and try to find a sensor that has a compatible signal conditioner.
Hello everyone, I've got an EBL Flash-II running my GTA and I just connected a Zeitronix ZT-2 to it. I've done a couple WB VE Learns already on top of some NB VE Learns I had done a couple months back. Should I run some more NB learns after having just done the WB learns? This car is driven nearly every day on the street. I also have an EGR system on my engine and I am a bit confused about what needs to be done to reintegrate it with the EBL. The EBL_WhatsUp html says "Once VE Learning has been completed re-enable the EGR system. Now update the 'EGR - BPC vs VAC' table for minimal change in the BLM while the EGR system is active." I'm pretty dumb when it comes to this stuff, so could someone walk me through what I should be looking at and how I can determine what values to enter on that table? I've seen somewhere on here that I should do another VE learn after re-enabling the EGR, but not to flash that bin and to instead use the values from one of the VE charts to adjust the BPC vs VAC table. It's all just a bunch of numbers to me though. Please help me understand
If u r using Closed Loop for everyday driving, BLMs will factor into the Open Loop/ WOT calc for determining final pulsewidth. IOW, if ur BLMs are above 128 when u go O/L WOT, then the ECM will adjust PW to increase it so as to be on the “safe side”. OTOH, if BLMs are =< than 128, ECM won’t affect WOT calc. Some use the O/L WB tune as a way of “roughing in” the VE table as a beginning, then use C/L to refine it.
I'm in the process of installing a new engine and trans. For the trans I'm switching from a 700r4 to a 4l60e with a stand alone controller by us shift. In the EBL P4 what would be the best way to deal with the trans issue? Just uncheck option word 2 bit 7? Or? But then what happens to idle speed park/neutral vs drive?
OK, my brain fart on that one-the ecm gets gear position from switch on shifter-so leave it checked and the wud will just show tcc not locked. It's on a 1986 Vette-so the usshift picks up the speed sensor adjusts signal and sends it to the dash, then onto the ecm.
is there's a prom somewhere you can edit? is that for using a different program then tunerpro with ebl?
It is an early, if not the first, PROM editing program. It is no longer supported, but the guy that created it had fun. And showed the way for others.
The ECU file is his own format that allowed PromEdit to display calibration parameters in plain English. It is still included with our systems, at the time of the EBL release, TunerPro did not yet exist. So we edit the ECU file (which is easy), and create the XDF via TunerPro.
I guess you could call the inclusion of the .ECU files with our systems as a contribute to the creator of the first BIN editor. It sure did beat editing the BIN in hex with decimal/hex translations along with manually converting the parameters to what they really meant. BTDT, for too long.
that's very cool. I had not heard of that. I've been reading around here for what feels like a long time but obviously not as long as I thought. haha
can't imagine doing any of this in hex. I remember years ago reading thru the sticky about applying a patch and couldn't do it. from then I figured I'd just stick to reading about it lol.
Could someone maybe have a look at my VE tables and help me smooth them out? I've done several learns with my wideband and then a couple with my narrowband. They look pretty different compared to what I see in the Introduction to Tuning article. I'm afraid of doing something that will hurt the engine. It's a stock 87 LB9 longblock with intake and exhaust. Car is a 4 speed auto.
Could someone maybe have a look at my VE tables and help me smooth them out? I've done several learns with my wideband and then a couple with my narrowband. They look pretty different compared to what I see in the Introduction to Tuning article. I'm afraid of doing something that will hurt the engine. It's a stock 87 LB9 longblock with intake and exhaust. Car is a 4 speed auto.
I looked at your BINs VE tables. To me it appears that there coverage isn't good. IOW, not hitting and staying at many areas of the RPM/MAP.
The low speed table with the exception of the 700 - 800 45 KPA spike looks OK. Would that be where the engine idles?
The high speed table with the exception of the 100 KPa area is along the same lines. Abrupt change to the VE.
Need to hold the go-pedal steady, give the learn time to collect data. Then go to another RPM/MAP area and do the same. Easy on the pedal. Any AE or DE stops the learning.
I looked at your BINs VE tables. To me it appears that there coverage isn't good. IOW, not hitting and staying at many areas of the RPM/MAP.
The low speed table with the exception of the 700 - 800 45 KPA spike looks OK. Would that be where the engine idles?
The high speed table with the exception of the 100 KPa area is along the same lines. Abrupt change to the VE.
Need to hold the go-pedal steady, give the learn time to collect data. Then go to another RPM/MAP area and do the same. Easy on the pedal. Any AE or DE stops the learning.
RBob.
Thank you for taking the time to look at the file. Most of the learns I did with that file were with the stock NB. I recently added a ZT-2 WB a couple weeks ago and have not been able to do extensive learns with it yet. I also came across a post you made in another thread where you did several learns on a bin starting with a smoothing factor of 12, then going down to 9. Upon checking WUD, it appears all the learns I had done were with a smoothing factor of 5. There were a handful of other parameters I adjusted such as IAC steps and idle speed in order to get the car to idle decent when I only had the NB. Now that I have a WB, I decided to just start fresh with the EBL_F_3004.BIN file and make no changes other than what is necessary for a VE learn. I've already done a couple of short WB VE learns using a smoothing factor of 12 and it runs better than it did with a few hours of NB VE learns. After I get some longer WB learns in with 12 smoothing, I'll dial it down to 9 like you did and see where that gets me. I plan to do the same with factors of 6 and possibly 4 after that.
Since I have an automatic, would it help if I held it in first/second gear while driving on a secluded road at each rpm level in increments of 100? I'm guessing WOT pulls aren't enough to get full coverage while doing VE learns with a WB.
what's considered the best air temp sensor style and location for a p4 with a super ram? I think I have the big brass tpi manifold sensor in the stock location now. which would give the best result? the brass chunk, the open element in stock location or the open element type in the inlet tube?
The bird cage style located where it best reports the incoming air temperature.
RBob.
so I guess that begs the question of how much effect the super ran intake has on the air in the cyl. from searches it seems open element in the intake would be best, but worst heat soak. open element in the intake in front of the TB, good but still some heat soak from radiator but doesn't take into account the heating from the long runner intake. open element way over in the fender air filter intake best for heat soak. worst for inside the cyl temp.
I'm leaning towards intake side of the airflter box. I saw one of your posts saying the application each sensor came in and I didn't save it. the big brass one tpi, the open element threaded 2.8v6 camaro but can't remember where the open element for the air tube or filter came from.
Hi, I have just installed my EBL Flash II and hooked up a AEM WBO2 to it. When I started the engine the WUD wideband reading was quite a bit out of sync with the actual gauge. I looked at the AEM selection in preferences and it shows a range of 0v - 10.1 to 5v - 20.1 but the paperwork with the gauge says 0.5v - 8.5 to 4.5v - 18.0, obviously this will give the ECM a false reading so how would I go about correcting it?
