Gummie

I originally planned on only buying one amp to run my subs and then moving my lower end Infinity, which I have had running my subs for about two years, over to my component set. I never actually checked the Infinity specs until recently and I don't think that the SN ratio will be a benefit to my new MB Quart speakers.

This means that I'm in the market for two new amps, one for my subs and one that will power my kicks and some rear fill (I have plans in mind that don't involve the sale panels in any way). The only problem is that this system has been one big ongoing project for a little while. I want to avoid buying something as a temporary fix again (see above infinity amp and current subs).

Here is what I am currently considering.

Sub amp
(building for two 10w6v2's or something comparable -- 250 to 500 watt RMS range)
phenix gold's xenon 1200.1 - ebay price of $350-$450
phenix gold's xenon 600.1 - ebay price of $200-$250
JL 1000/1 - ebay price of $500 - $650
JL 500/1 - ebay price of $300-$400
ED NINe.1 - $350 from ED
(ebay price are buy it now, not auction)

I'm personally leaning toward the smaller amps (ie JL 500/1, xenon 600.1, NINe.1 (I won't wire it for a 1 ohm load)) because I won't need the extra power, will I? I'm not looking for mind blowing bass, just something that will be able to keep up with my components and fill out the low end. The xenon seems to be the best bang/buck of the group and they have also been talked highly of, but we all know how little that means.

component/rear fill amp
For now this will be running only one set of speakers: MB Quart QSD 216s. They're rated @ 90-170w RMS. I do not ever intend to bi-amp them.
JL 300/4 (75 x 4 or 150 x 2)- ebay price of $300-450
JL 450/4 (150 x 2 and 75 x 2 – two internal amps) - ebay price of $450-500
XENON 200.4 (200 x 4) - ebay price of $300
NINe.4 Amplifier (65 x 4 @ 4 ohm - what it would be run at) - $235 from ED
(ebay price are buy it now, not auction)

In this category, I prefer the JL 450/4 because it will provide more wattage to two channels than the other two. This will be nice for when I eventually install my rear fill and want to run more power to the front vs the rear. Sure, I could do this with fade, but I would prefer not to because the front won’t ever gain power, the back will just lose it. My problem is that I don't know if I can run the 450/4 with only two speakers. I guess I could leave my 6x9's in until I eventually take care of my rear fill with the gain turned way down on the 3/4 amp I'm not very interested in the NINe.4 because it does not deliver the wattage I want because I can't give it a lower than 4 ohm load to get to the higher wattage it is capable of putting out. Would a bigger amp (150w RMS) even be worth it as compared to 75-100w RMS for a set of speakers rated from 90-170?

For eye candy sake I would like to have two amps from the same product line, but it looks like that could end up hurting my wallet pretty badly. At this rate I'm tempted to use a Xenon 600.1 on my subs and get the JL 450/4 for my main speakers or a (300/4 if you guys don’t think the extra 150 watts to the front will do much good). Anyone have any opinions? I’m trying to stay in this price range (sub $800 for both amps), but I am open to other companies.

Thanks

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

The s/n ratio of that infinity amp will be perfectly sufficient for the new speakers. If you want more power, fine, but as long as the infinity is powerful enough, you're not going to benefit much from a new amp.

For amplification, don't forget about Rockford and Kicker. You can get factory authorized referbs from Sounddomain.com very affordably.

Zed audio amps are also becoming very highly recommended. Zed Audio isn't really that well known, but it's owned by the guy that designed all of the former powerhouse amps for Zapco, Hifonics and a few other companies. He's an extremely well respected designer and his stuff, while not cheap, seems to be a bargain for what you get.

Gummie

My biggest problem with amps is that they are all rated at 14.4v, a voltage that I will never see in my car. I would much rather have companies like kicker/phoenix gold publish their amps with two ratings: one at 12.5 and one at 14.4 (like JL does with their lower line of amps). Since it's not a linear function, that one volt can really matter. It's almost along the lines of false advertising because the end user is unlikely to ever see that kind of output. Not that I will really be able to hear the difference between 90 watts and 120, but still. I would rather pay for something that I will actually be getting.

The JL's slash series are rated at the same power output from 11 to 14.5 volts.

My next qualm applies more to sub/monoblock amps. It's all in how you wire them. This means that you’re either buying an amp specifically for a sub or a sub specifically for an amp so that you can run the amp at the highest possible load (lowest numerically).

It would be nice to know that I'm always going to be getting say 150 watts per channel, but is that really worth roughly twice the cost in keeping with JL vs kicker?

Zapco makes a nice amp, but I think that they will be out of my price range

Input is welcome

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Amps that use a regulated power supply should produce the same power (or close to it) at 12 and 14.4 volts.

Also remember that some of these amps that are using unregulated supplies are also grossly underrating their amplifiers, so they're probably STILL making more power at 13.4 volts than something like the JL that uses a regulated supply with accurate power ratings.

PhLaXuS

All of the Kicker amp lines I've seen from 1998+ publish @ 12.5V and 14.4V. Most of Kicker's line appears to obtain their ratings from 12.5V, but not all. I'd been curious for a few weeks how the JL amps maintain the same output output from such a wide power supply, but if it's all just an issue of regulation than that makes sense. What really gets me is how do they maintain the same power output to various load impedances?

Gummie

After some poking around, I found a site that published the 12.5v and 14.4 power outputs for kickers link. Both kicker’s website and phoenix gold’s are basically useless when it comes to given a customer a large amount of information.

The Kicker amp I’m looking at (see previous link) does 110 x 2 @ 4 ohms @ 14.4 volts and drops down to 70 x 2 @ 4 ohms @ 12.5 volts. That means the amp is only putting out 63% of its power at 12.5 volts. Sure they’re underrated, but crutchfield reports a 375 watt birth sheet for a 350 watt amp (at 2 ohm stereo). That underrating won’t make up for the loss in output as voltage drops.

As for power supplies, that Kicker (KX 350.2) obviously does not have a regulated PSU. To quote car domain, "An unregulated Class A/B power supply allows the amplifier to really pour on the power in 2-ohm operation" which just sounds like marketing mumbo-jumbo. For that matter, no kicker that I am aware of has a regulated PSU. Again, I could care less about 2 ohm operation. The speakers I will be driving are 4 ohm. It would be nice if I could knock that down to a 2 ohm load so I could get more output, but I can’t. All I care about right now is powering my new component set (4 ohm speakers) when I get them into the car.

Sure, I can buy a bigger amp to offset running a 4 ohm load and the voltage drop. The kicker KX850.2 puts out 180w x 2 @ 4 ohms @ 12.5 (even though it does 295x 2 @ 2 ohms @ 14.4 ). The power that the kicker would give me daily (averaging around 13 volts) would be slightly higher than JL’s 300/2 (150x2 always), but that kicker retails for $600 while I can buy the JL for $320 at arc audio or $450 at a normal store.

Rockfords do have regulated PSU's, but I wonder what they mean when they say they’re 'loosely' regulated? And a s/n ratio of >80%? The price is defantly right at $200 for a refurb...

I think I'm going to head back over to tweeter since they're close to see if they have an amp with a low s/n ratio that I can compair to something with a high one to see just how much a diffrence it makes.

As for PhLaXuS’s question on JL...

I'm doing my best to not be a fan boy or anything. In fact, I don't own a single JL product (yet?). I would also love to save the money buying a competitor’s amp (Kicker, Rockford, etc) would save me. I have just heard JL’s products in various cars/stores and they always do exactly what they claim. I wouldn’t have to worry about load, voltage, etc. To get a competitor to do the same looks like it will end up costing the same amount of money (sticking with a 4 ohm stereo load @ 12.5-13 volts) for the same end output.

As always, facts/opinions different than what I just posted are welcomed with open arms. How else am I supposed to learn anything? Anyone have any info on how well the Rockford PSUs are regulated?

PhLaXuS

I like both Kicker & JL, but I have a lot more experience dealing with Kicker products. If someone who didn't understand car audio (or was buying one component at a time) I'd definitely recommend an amp such as these JL's which kind of make it idiot proof -- or at least more idiot proof than most mobile audio products. I consider Kicker & JL for the most part to be upper mid-level products. I'd like to get into the really high end of it and see that whole venue for myself.

And thanks for the JL explanation...that makes perfect sense.

Gummie

No problem on the explanation.

As for idiot proofing stuff, all I really care about is a regulating power supply. I find it stupid that people go out and buy a kicker/whoever unregulated amp that is advertised as a 400/500/1000 watt amp and only get around 65% of its output from their car because they never touch 13 volts. It would defantly bother me if I bought a 400 watt amp and never saw more than 350 to my two speakers. Sure, you can overbuy on the amp to make up for it but at that point you’re better off buying an amp that costs more/puts out less wattage at 14.4 but maintains the same output regardless of voltage (regulated power supply like Rockford, JL, etc).

It would also be nice if more companies focused on 4 ohm speaker sets because the majority of aftermarket speakers (excluding subs) are 4 ohm (yes there are some 2 ohm speaker sets, but they are not that common). I can see the logic behind monoblocks, but I don’t know why companies advertise their two/four channel amps output at a 2 ohm level. Sure, they post higher numbers that way but they’re not very realistic for the average user.

As for high end vs low end, I would consider both JL and kicker pretty high end. “True” high end generally means higher output (ie Memphis, etc) where spl matters more (come on, 1,000+ watts for easy listening?). At that point it’s just a contest to see who can get the loudest and still call it a daily listened system. True, some people like to drive around blasting music, but once you cross the 120 dB threshold, things start getting pretty bad for your ears. In my mind, high end means great sound quality with the ability to get reasonably loud, not blow your brain through your ear loud. Sure, you can have an obnoxiously loud system and still sound great, but I don’t see the point of it.

9177

I know for a fact that the 9.1 is rated at 12.5 volts and that it makes it rated power. I don't think that anything in that price range would compare at least not authorized. And the elemental designs amp sports a nice warranty

I've heard of problems with the newer PG stugg but have never used the xenon stuff only the tantrum (which is very good) As for JL audio if you have the money its one of the best amp lines and companies around for that matter as long as price isn't a major factor. Like Jim said most real companies rate their power @ 12.5 volts which should be able to be reached by almost any car atleast before the bass hits.

Also you are focusing on a small part of the ohm load an amp is actually going to see. In reality a sub set up to run at 4 ohms can have at some frequencies a resistance more than 10 times that. The ohm load isn’t even a total product of the driver as the box size and type play a major factor.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Just keep in mind, that if you're not getting 14 volts at your amp with the car running, your car has electrical issues that you need to sort out.

At the minimum, your amp shouldn't ever see less than 13.5 volts at idle, and 14 volts while driving.

Non regulated amps can also be easier on your electrical system. A regulated power supply is going to allow the amp to make the same power at nearly all voltages, and to make a constant power with less voltage requires more current. In other words, in lower voltage situations (like at idle) the JL amps are going to draw more current than the kicker & Rockford amps. This is going to put an additional strain on your alternator, so be sure it's capable of handling it.

Gummie

You got me curious, so I grabbed an autometer gauge I have lying around and wired it up in parallel with my current amp. It seems that I was wrong about voltage (when the car is on at least). I was putting out 13.8-13.9 at idle with the stereo on. I didn't have anyone to hit the gas, but it's probably a safe assumption that I will maintain 14.4 when driving. Once I turned the key off (everything off including stereo) I dropped down to 12 - 12.2v. Looks like it's time to get a new battery

In terms of a regulated power supply being harder on a charging system, it would only be harder the lower your voltage output is? If so, a regulated PSU wouldn’t be a huge deal assuming you're driving around. Engine off, playing music parked it would be like expediential decay on the battery once voltage starts dropping as compaired to my current amp, which pulls less and less current as voltage drops because it’s producing less power.

You do bring up a good point: I don’t really need a regulated PSU because I will do the majority of my listening while driving. It would be nice to have for the occasional party, but it would probably kill my battery. How much of a time difference do you think I would be looking at in terms of maintaining a useful voltage between regulated and unregulated? Would regulated really chew through battery charge that much faster?

9177: how much would resistance of a driver change? I know it would be different for every driver, but on average? The resistance they’re sold at is take when they’re not at motion, or is it average?

I am a fan of the NINe.1, but unfortunately I have it stuck in my head that I want matching amps. If I decided to go two channel (with subs) and don’t go with my rear fill idea then a NINe.4 would suit me perfectly fine. If I decide to go 4 channel, it wouldn’t be cost effective to use their amps for my main speakers.

Keep the comments coming

9177

speakers are reactive loads. The rating a manufacture gives you isn't even the 100% correct reading for the coil. most speakers that are sold as 4ohm range from 3.2-3.8 ohms. As for the impedance rise while speakers are being played I have never personally tested any but I have programs to model the impedance rise vs frequency and I have seen some that are marketed at 4ohms but range from 3.5-40 ohms depending on the frequencies played. Keep in mind this is a model and does not add in factors such as heat of the coil which will make more resistance and also relies on the manufactures to have accurate measurements for the products. Also box type and size will add impedance peaks. Ported usually has 2 peaks and sealed usually one. Hopefully Jim can give a more correct answer but I think ported boxes usually have peaks at tuning and an octave above tuning.

now after all of this information imo very little of this should play a factor into what amp you should buy unless you only intention for the stereo is to make a SPL fart cannon. The only reason i brought this up in the first place was to inform that even the regulated amps would not be able to produce full power all the time.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Generally the resistance of a speaker isn't of much concern to the level that 9177 is going to. Yes, a speaker's impedance will vary with frequency, and yes, a ported enclosure will have 2 impedance spikes: one at port resonance and one at driver resonance. But... those impedance spikes don't have an effect on solid state amps, so they're of little concern.

However, this brings me to another point about quality amplifiers. Amps are typically rated based on their performance into a purely resistive load. In other words, somebody hooks the amp to a 4 ohm dummy load and finds the maximum output without clipping. That's great, except that speakers aren't purely resistive. Their equivalent electrical circuit is fairly complex, and includes both inductive and capactitive elements, which is also why their "resistance" varies with frequency. In any case, many amplifiers that will easily make thier rated power into a purely resistive load find themselves incapable of making their rated power into a reactive load. Some subwoofers with a large inductive or capacitive swing can cause the amp to make significantly less power than what they "should" make. A well designed amp will be much more capable with coping with these loads than a poorly designed one. I'm not entirely sure what part of the design (or amplifier topology for that matter) allows for better tolerance of this, but hopefully someday I will.

I do remember though, that in reading a test report a few years ago, that the rockford amp they were testing was actually capable of producing MORE power into a reactive load that simulated an actual driver than it made into a purely resistive load.

This whole speech really has very little to do with any of this conversation because I'm sure that all of the stuff you're looking at is designed well enough that this is not an issue, but while I felt like rambling, I figured I'd mention this for the benefit of those who still don't understand why their 1000 watt Ebay amp is such a piece of crap.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

I just came across this fantastic thread that pertains to 12 vs. 14.4 volts. It's definately worth the read:

http://www.carsound.com/cgi-bin/UBB_...;f=18;t=010495

Keep in mind when reading this that "msmith" is a JL Audio employee. I'm not sure exactly what he does there, but he seems to have a very good knowledge of their technology. He also makes sure he doesn't say anything that doesn't favor JL, so take some of his propaganda as just that.

Gummie

Ron Trout works for Rockford and also slings some propaganda around

I think both have good points. Ron points out that the user will only see a 1-1.5 dB difference between 12.5 and 14.4 voltage outputs (which msmith concedes to) and msmith points out that it's not fair to customers to have all these variables being tossed around and that it's not a good benchmark for JL amps. The rest of the thread (currently in the middle of page 2) has a lot to do with back and fourth between the two over how much voltage drops under given conditions and whether or not it will impact output. I tent to shy away from Manville at this point because I will never listen to my music at a "loud, clipping but still listenable" level.

"The 44% difference [in wattage] might only be equivalent to 1.6 dB but when you state that one is 500 watts and the other is 700 watts, 200 watts difference seems like a lot to a consumer."

I’ve been looking around some more and I think that I have a solution I like. I'm thinking about getting a JL 450/4 because that way Im guaranteed my wattage where I really want it: the main speakers. 150 to each of the components sounds reasonable and 75 to each of whatever I end up using for my rear fill sounds like a good plan because the rear will still be able to get loud, but it won't be able to move the image that far back. The only question is whether or not I can pry myself away from getting a matching amp. I'm probably not going to need that much wattage for my subs because I plan on getting 10w3v2’s (because they're a highly recommended SQ sub and I can grab two for around $325 shipped). The 10w3v2s should be fine with 300-400 each. So even if I got a kicker/whatever rated at 500-600 @ 14.4 for my subs, it wouldn't be a huge deal if I lost 200 watts (1.6 dB). I probably wouldn't notice it as much if the subs dropped as I would if the components dropped.

I'm going to shift the conversation base a little. Regardless of what amps I end up buying, I will probably have the ability to put out around 800-900 watts all said and done. Granted, I will probably never listen at this level and if I do it will be for extremely limited periods of time. Does anyone have any kind of clue what level I would normally be listening at? The reason why I ask is because I'm trying to figure out load this new system will put on my car. If a 200 watt drop results in a 1.6 dB drop in sound, does this mean that wattage increases in a non-linear fashion the more you turn it up? Or can the human ear perceive that 200 watt, 1.6 dB drop as a big diffrence? Those 200 watts are almost 14 amps at 14.4v. It would all add up pretty quickly (a 300 watt system would pull 20 amps, etc). I'm trying to figure out if I should worry about my alternator.

9177

msmith is Manville Smith Vice pres of marketing for JL Audio. And yes don't look to much into impedance rise. In a long drawn out fasion all I was getting at was that regulated outputs on amps have limitations just like "regular" amps.

Gummie

Gotcha. My main concern at this point is varying output at different voltages (when the car is off) and now how much current the new system might pull. Current pull will greatly impact how long I can listen with the car off as well as whether or not I need to upgrade my alternator.

PhLaXuS

I'd never thought of that aspect: A regulated amp should, under most circumstances, greatly reduce the available "engine-off" listening time...My Kicker amps cut out & start making this squealing warning tone @ ~9V.

Justins86bird

Keep in mind your prolly not listening at 100% volume. If the difference at 12v vs. 14.4v is half the wattage, thats 3db. Prolly wont even notice that, if you do, just turn up the volume some. If your playing it so loud that you need all that wattage, your battery wont last, amp p/s regulated or not.

When looking for an amp, look for the biggest "true RMS" wattage you can afford in an amp that will fit where you want it to go.

I dont like the reg JL slash amp's p/s or how it regulates the output based on ohms.
Same with the PG Xenon, the XeLoad sucks from my point of view.

Gummie

I won't ever be listening at 100% volume. I will probably rarely see over 50% unless I really like the song or am playing for a group of people with the car off (the car boom box thing). I'm just trying to gauge possible current pull to find out if I need to plan for a new alternator and a better battery.

Out of curiosity, why do you not like that the slash series regulate output based on speaker resistance? To me it makes sense if you want flexibility and don't want to run any crazy wattage. On the other hand, it does make for a pretty bad cost/output ratio. For what a 1000/1 normally retails for ($700-800) you can get a much higher power amp if you're going to be running a low ohm load.

I have another question. fishboy mentions in this thread that 100 watts RMS is a lot for a set of components. Is this true, keeping in mind that the MB Quarts I have are rated 90-170? I didn't hear anything funky when I listened to them at tweeter hooked up to an amp feeding 150 each at a pretty decent volume level. Am I missing something?

Justins86bird

About the slash amps and xenon amps. When I have 100x2 at 4 ohm and I add a second set of components, I want to see somthing like 200x2 at 2 ohms. I dont want the amp to say hey, its 2 ohms, lets not give any more power I feel cheated. If you only going to have a 4 ohm load, then its fine.

About comps, I wouldn't put any less the 100 watts RMS to a set. I run about 140 watts to mine. Getting correctly set up is key. If its not set up right and distorts at 150 watts, bye bye tweeter.

Gummie

I won't be running another set of comps off those channels. I have no idea how you would fit all that into the front of one of our cars even if I had the money to do so.

I'm planning on 150 or so per channel (at 4 ohms ) and wanted a reality check before I changed my mind based on fishboy's post.

As for correctly setting it up, how would you set it up incorrectly? Assuming you set the jumpers on your crossover correctly you should be fine, correct? My crossover is bi-ampable and has w+,t+,w-,t- amp inputs. The manual says to leave the jumpers in their factory positions (w+/t+ and w-/t-) if using only one amp. Would that potentially cause harm to the tweeter if I feed them 150 as a set?

Or are you talking about amp distortion from poorly set gains = bad for tweeter at higher output

Justins86bird

I'm talking about gains set incorrectly or bad EQ settings and boosting the crap out of the highs. The Quarts should be fine with 150 watts. Mine has a tweeter protection circuit which bleeds some power off when theres too much. Does you xover have a light bulb somewhere on it?

Gummie

I don’t have any fear of setting gains/EQs wrong. I just don’t want to drive the tweeter too hard.

As for the light bulb thing, I think so. I assumed it was a fuse when I first looked at them, but now that I actually look at it the 'filament' resembles that of a light bulb.

Edit: I think I have my current amp choices layed out. For now I am going to leave well enough alone with the Infinity/subs and focus on getting a nice amp for the components.

Rockford Fosgate Punch P6002 (150x2 @ 4 ohms) - $500 retail, $275 ebay
Orion 8002 (200x2 @ 4 ohms) - $600 retail, $300 e-bay
Orion 4004 (200x2 @ 4 ohms) - $300 retail, $168 e-bay
Kicker KX450.2 (150x2 @ 4 ohms) - $400 retail, $150-200 e-bay
JL 300/2 (150x2 @ 1.5-4 ohms) - $?? retail, $275

Both the Punch P6002 and Orion 8002/4004 have pretty low s/n ratios of 86 and 78/80 respectively I like the kicker because it looks like it would give me a cleaner sound, but I’m afraid that it would be too large for my planned back seat install. The JL is the most expensive, but produces the cleanest sound – for whatever that is worth.

Would the low s/n ratio for the Punch/Orions matter? How much space can you save on the kicker by taking off the end caps? Comments on other amps within this price range are always welcome as well

PhLaXuS

The Kicker end caps cost you about 4"-5" typically. I can measure mine in a few minutes if you want a more accurate measurement.

roc city f body

two words rockford fosgate ive had it all thru the years in terms of quality, longativity, value/price none can be beat. everything in my car down to the wires is fosgate and i would never get rid of em

Gummie

That would be appreciated. I just measured the back seat and a 19.4" long amp would hard to fit.

As for rockford, they seem pricey for what they are, but they're defiantly in the running. That s/n ratio is still bothering me. I wouldn't mind it as much I was going to be using it as a sub amp, but I won’t be. I guess I can always turn my current Infinity amp (83 dB s/n ratio) lose on the Quarts when the kicks are done to see how it sounds. The only problem is that I don’t have a ‘cleaner’ amp available to compare it to. But then agian, Jim said I wouldn't be hearing much, if any, of a diffrence.

Choices, choices. They're all pretty much in the same price range too.

Pearl91GTA

i just purchased a mtx thunder 942 from cardomain. Its going for 285 which is on sale for half price. Im not sure what other amps your looking at but this might be one you might want to look at..

PhLaXuS

Gummie,

I measured two different models of new Kicker amps and the end caps (or "Kaps", as they call them) came out to the same dimensions for both amps:

The End Kaps extend the length of the amp by a total of 4-1/2". This is not taking into account the mounting lip which is underneath the End Kap (which is ~5/8").

So...if you want to know a fairly accurate mounting footprint, subtract 3-1/4" from the length of the amp with End Kaps installed.

Gummie

Thanks for the measurements. I just went and re-measured the seats and it looks like I will have 18-20" or so to play with length wise (hard to tell without getting the carpet off first) and a max width of 12". The KX450.2 should fit fine, as would the matching KX600.1. JL's 450/4 might impossible to fit if I want to keep the amp flush with the back of the seat and not have it running at an angle for a little extra room (it’s 19.7” long). To be fair, I would only be using the kicker as a 2 channel amp and the JL 300/2 would fit without any problems. The Orion 8004 is defiantly out, and the 4002 is cutting it close at 18.4”.

Pearl91GTA: I would be looking more along the lines of a Thunder502 because the 942 puts out way too much power for my comps. I'm not sure why, but most people seem to avoid MTX when building a higher end system

Are all amp fans top mounted (on the big flat top face of the amp)?

9177

Just wondering but if your looking for supreme SQ from amps you should be looking at companies like TRU, Brax, McIntosh.... Not saying these are choices of mine because price is a factor for me but as far as SQ these companies would be better.

PhLaXuS

If you're asking about the Kicker amps, the fans look to be totally enclosed just under the main emblem and each corner of the amps have vents; four total per amp. Each vent is ~1 square inch in area.

1meanGTA

*drools*

i can dream, but i think arc is about the best sq amp i can afford for my components... still aint cheap

Gummie

I was referencing kicker, but I'm curious in general. Does the fan suck in through the top (through the logo) and then use the other holes as exhaust vents? Just trying to make sure that it won't be trying to suck air from inside the seat cushion

1meanGTA: you have a fetish for arc equipment, don't you

1meanGTA

the amps yes. arc amps are some of the best sound quality amp for the money.

the component boner was simply because they're made by rainbow and i like smooth sounding components rather than harsh and ultra loud.

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

i'm running a Memphis 250D. cost me like $200 or $250 can't remember which it was....it's got great power and it's SOOO SMALL it's amazing how they get all that power from that thing....it runs my (2) 10" memphis subs, and my (4) memphis speakers. all connected to a sony head unit....i was thinkin' about getting another 250D and swapping for (2) 12" memphis subs. that would rock out so bad!

but yea memphis had a GREAT line of products i would look into them if i was you. i've VERY satisfied with my products

ScrapMaker

just a side note, eD has slashed their prices considerably... and you get an even bigger discount if you frequent the icixsound forums. just a thought

I love my nINE.1.... just unbelievable... It feels like it has TWICE the power of the Hifonics 1605D.... even though it's 'rated' lower than the hifonics...

I think I'm going to buy a nINE.2x, and a nINE.4 to compliment the nINE.1 I already have... because I think I'm moving over to a newish trans am ws6 with the monsoon system... (I'll pull all of that, I think.)0

Oh yeah, I don't work for eD, but man I was considering getting the 6500's for $350... and now, wow, they are VERY reasonably priced... and there are also a few deals going on for other amps..

wow, that sounds like a plug... but anyways, thanks for showing me the light, 9177.

Gummie

wow. I just went back to the ed site for kicks and giggles and all I can say is they sell exactly what I want. I'm not sure why I was steering away from them before...

Looks like I might pick myself up a NINe.1 and a NINe.2

ScrapMaker

the nINE.2 is perfect for most components, and the nine.4 works for most people... for me, I'd need a nine.2 for the front components, and a nine.2x for the rear 6x9s, and my nine.1 for the subs.

9177

No problem scrap. and BTW the blazer project hit 143.5 at the eD facility on a termpro. but wait till next springs project

1meanGTA

i'll be louder once i deaden everything up, and get a bigger amp for my 12's, if im not already

i also run a nine.1, good amp, puts out a lot more than 1200 watts, but i want to get more like 1kw on each of my 12's. a second nine.1 would probably pull too much current for my tastes.

what they need is a 2400x1 @ 1 ohm nine.1x



pass that on through to ben 9177

9177

I'll pass it on but right now his plate is very full. Although there is alot of great new things to come in 2006.