CrazyHawaiian

Hello everyone, while my 91Z28 is up on jacks for tranny work I've decided to take care of some things I've been planning to do for quite some time. One of these involves completing the project of re-wiring the car for some serious audio components. I've installed alot of systems in the past but this is the first time I'm taking a serious approach to a professional level install. I dont plan to run one billion jiggawatts or anything but I want my install to be perfect with no issues down the road and no failures, and most importantly, no fires!! I personally believe the wiring and fuse / distribution block setup is the key to this type of install so I begin my project at the wiring.

For my Z28 project I plan to upgrade the wiring under the hood, fuse everything properly, run distribution blocks, and run a multiple battery setup with an isolator. The wire connections themselves will be soldered and wrapped. The wiring under the hood is commonly refered to as "the Big 3" and for this I will be using 1/0 AWG wiring for all 3 connections. I also plan to fuse the alternator to battery connection as well as the main power wire to the fused distribution block for the amps w/ 300A fuses. I've read and been told by pro's that you're supposed to choose the fuses based on the wiring guage (maximum amps), hope that is correct. The Alternator will be upgraded from stock, still deciding between keeping the 160 amp or going to a 200 amp. I've decided to run one fused distribution block for the Amp's, two regular distribution blocks for grounds (one in engine bay, one in trunk), and I'm still considering setting up a second fused distribution block for all 12V accessories in the car. The batteries will be in the trunk with a dual isolator setup, both Optima batteries, a yellowtop for the backup and a redtop for the main starting battery for the car. I want to go with the dual setup because I like to play music with the car not running.

I'm wondering if anyone else here has done this with their car? I'd be interested in hearing how you did your setup, what parts you used, and what you thought about the install. The ideas of upgrading the wiring is universal but sometimes there can be special cases with certain types of cars. I've done a portion of the Big 3 upgrade with 4AWG but plan to re-do it with the 1/0 wires and fuse it properly. So I kind of know what I'm getting into here, but I haven't completed the install so I'm still curious in hearing what others have done. Thanks!!!

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

Have you ever thought of moving the battery to the back? You would only have to run about 2 foot of power wire to your amplifiers then. A great place would be where the spare tire resides now, or even on the other side if you don't mind running the extra length. I ALWAYS run the power wires inside the car under the carpets, some people run them underneath the car and this in my opinion is flirting with disaster (I've seen them frayed up and shorted out more than once). Use Maxi fuses, they're becoming more popular, they don't melt out over time, and the're easy to replace just pull and go. You should post some pics of what you have and what you're wanting.

Gummie

Here comes a long post... I bolded the main idea of each paragraph for easy skimming

Helpful link with a table of what wire can carry what amperage.

I did something similar to what you're talking about. I'm currently running only one battery in the stock location but that might change over the summer because I will start using my car as an outside boom box again. I also did everything (power, ground, big 3) in 2 gauge welder's wire instead of 1/0 because I got it at such a low price locally. My amps can pull over 200 amps combined but I doubt that I will ever push them that far. The fuse on the battery end of the power line is only a 175 amp.

Wire size is dependent on what you want to run and what you want to pay for. This is the best place to overbuy because it sucks to have to rip old wire out and lay new wire if you decide to upgrade in the future (ask me how I know). You’re also going to get stuck buying new fuse holders, etc if you have to upgrade your wire. 2 gauge is the hardest to buy for (rings, distro blocks, etc) because it’s not a very common size. I just used 0/1 hardware and everything is holding up fine. Unless you get a good deal locally like I did I suggest just going with 0 gauge.

In terms of running wire, one strand of 2/1/0 gauge will fit perfectly on the driver's side of the car. If you unscrew the step plate and pull back the carpet you will find a big gormont type thing that holds all the stock wiring for the brake lights, defogger, hatch, etc. The only problem is that you’re going to have to run two power wires if you want to put both batteries in the trunk. I suggest against just pulling back the carpet, running the wire, and reinstalling the carpet. I drive an auto so I just ran my cable through the clutch hole in the firewall. I’m not sure what I will do during the summer when I convert but I’m sure I will come up with something.

The big 3 are really easy with a battery in the stock location (mine is on the driver’s side about a foot and a half from the alternator. I bolted a strand of 2 gauge between the alternator case and its bracket for the engine ground and ran that to the battery negative. I ran the same wire to chassis ground right next to the fan shroud (about a 6” run). The only slightly tricky part was the power wire from the alternator to the battery positive. I had to grind down the ring I had crimped to the wire because I was worried about it arcing to the valve cover (only about 1/8” of gap originally).

Every power wire should be fused on both ends as you know. I’m using a lightning audio ANL inline fuse holder 10” away from my battery. It’s the cheapest 0 gauge inline cardomain sells with streetwires’s version $12 behind. I figured why pay more for the same piece of plastic. At the hatch end I’m running a Stringer MIDI/AFS fused distro block. All my grounds run through an unfused stinger block.

Fuse style is mainly up to you. MIDI/AFS (same thing) and ANL have the cleanest look while Maxi fuses (the ones in the fuse box) are the most common. ANL/AFS have much higher raitings than Maxi fuses. ASF/ANL fuses are not rare/hard to come by. Check out cardomain’s fuse page if you don’t believe me.

All said and done I have about $150 worth of wire, fuse holders, distro blocks, and fuses in the car. Thankfully only $30 something of that was for the wire

Don’t solder your wire into the connectors you plan on using. I know a ton of people do this method but it really doesn’t do anything aside from add some corrosion resistance. It defiantly does very little to create a strong mechanical connection. Crimp your wire using a vice. If you want to solder after that use the torch method because an iron/gun won't get hot enough.



Here's a link to a quick system diagram of my system so you can see what I was trying to describe.

I'm not sure what you were looking for but I hope this covers it If not, post up and either someone else or myself will do our best to answer.

CrazyHawaiian

Sweet post, thanks for all the info and links, really helps. I'm planning to run the same style distribution blocks and ANL fuse holders. Good advice on the vice for crimping and what wires to use too, I'm even considering bying one of those cheap crimpers for the 0AWG wire, those wires are thick!! Currently my Z28 has a single yellow top in the stock location and the interior is gutted. I'm planning to do what you said and overbuild the wiring from the start. And as long as I'm doing that I might as well wire it up for the dual batteries in the trunk since that will require a good ammount of wiring too. The system I want to put in isnt even bought yet so right now I'm trying to plan ahead as much as possible before putting the interior back together. Along with the Big 3 and distribution blocks and amps I also have to wire it up for the component speakers. I'm planning on running 4 amps to power this system. I'm going to have 2 sets of component speakers (5 and 1/4 in kickpanels and 6 and 1/2 in stock 6x9 location) and 2 subs and I want a dedicated amp for each sub. I know this is kind of a splurge and I could do the system cheaper with less amps but I'm going all out on this one I want the system to sound great. Once the wiring is done, interior put back together, and equipment is all in place I'm going to have a local audio shop make a fiberglass amp rack for the rear that will house the 4 amps and both batteries and integrate with the sub box. I've even drawn out the configuration I want hehe. Then the enclosure will be painted along with the batteries and I'll finish the install myself.

Got any good links for places I can go to get all the connectors for the wire ends? Crimping does sound like the better way to go for this type of install. I'm just used to soldering for the regular butt style crimp boots with the wire going into each end, I forget that doing an install like this with fuse holders and distribution blocks will be a different type of connection at each point. Thanks again!!

Gummie

At this point you should also start asking yourself some questions. What kind of sound do you want, are you shooting for SPL or SQ, how do you want the image staged, etc.

The stock 6x9 location is hardly ideal for much of anything. Spacing is horrible and there's not a good way to aim speakers without building something custom in that location (ie building pods that stick out of the location that are angled toward the front of the car). When I was running 4x6/6x9s with time alignment I took a measuring tape to the car. I believe that the rear left speaker is about 18” away from your head and the rear right is something like 40”. Hardly ideal even if the numbers are not 100% accurate. Also, unless you’ve got a lot of money to spend, why not spend it on one amazing set of speakers instead of two good sets?

I guess what I’m hinting at is just running 6.5” comps up front in the kicks and leaving rear speakers out of the equation. Aside from the cost/money issue, I prefer a strong frontal stage. It makes it sound like the sound is coming from the center of the windshield right about eye level. Left/right are very easy to tell apart, etc. If you question front spacing at the kicks measure it. It was very close (+/- 1”) and surprised me greatly.

I know you drive a stick and that may be playing a role in your speaker decision. Jim85IROC also drives a stick and started developing kicks last fall. I’m running a set and I love them. They’re defiantly better quality than what I would expect from a custom shop and they look stock. I took my car back to the shop I bought my Quarts from when all was said and done and they were more than impressed. link to my review. link to one of his threads, link to another that has pictures of it with the clutch, etc.

4 amp system – if you end up running just front speakers this knocks one amp out of the running. If you still want to go crazy you could run one amp for the mids/one for the tweeters (biamping) depending on the component set you buy (not all are capable of being biamped). That or you could just use a 4 channel amp for the front comps. I’m not bothering with biamping but I’ve honestly never tried it so I don’t know if I would get a noticeable sound difference. The idea is that you will be able to feed the woofers more power while keeping the tweeters safe. You could easily biamp a component set with an amp with two different powered stages. JL’s 300/4 comes to mind (150x2 and 75x2).

I also question running two amps for your subs. Unless you’re going to be running freaking huge subs that are going to require gobs of power I don’t advise toward it. Sure, it will look cool but unless you need more than 1,500 watts on tap (mean’s amp does something like 2200 I believe) it’s much easier/cheaper to do it with one amp. Two amps are unnecessary, it will be hard getting the two amps gain matched exactly without some pretty high end equipment (osloscope or something else along those lines), it will require more wire, etc.

Remember, more doesn't always equal better

The best place to buy wire online is probably knukonceptz. Their wire is cheap and of VERY high quality. I’m running their RCAs (Krystal Kable) and if it wasn’t for the deal at the hardware store I would also be running their 0 gauge. I got all my rings from them as well.

Also, no crimping is required at the fuse holders, etc. It’s only required when you want to attach a ring to the wire (at the battery and at the ground location). All the fuse holders/blocks have screw down things that hold the wire. No need to solder or anything, just pop the plastic cover off and screw the wire down. Also, don't buy the crimper if you have a shop vice. The vice will be able to get it a ton tighter/do a better job.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

On the rear speakers I would never run a set of mids and highs in the rear 6X9 panels. You will destroy the imaging you get up front and throw off the balance. Running a dedicated 6X9in woofer back there alone isn't as bad but still causes some issues; I wouldn't put anything in there period. I have owned the Q Logic kick panel and will tell you right now they're JUNK. Fitment is terrible and they're thin cheap plastic. I sold them on eBay and used some 3/4in MDF to make a build out, carpeted it and screwed it to the door panel, cut the back of the panel for the magnet to fit through and put my JL 5 1/4's and Kicker Resolution tweeters in it. It looks great, is solid, doesn't get in the way of your feet, and sounds as good as the Kick panels. If you really want to run 4 speakers I recommend getting a matched set of speakers for door build outs, and your dash holes. Now for the wiring. I used to run a Punch 800@2 and a Punch 600.4. I had a set of Soundstream 5 1/4s and Kicker Resolution tweeters in the kick pods, and a set of tweeters in the dash 4X6 location. I ran 2 12in Hollywood 1280D Excursion subs in a sealed box fitted to the back and used 4ga wire to feed it, never had a problem with this setup. On the wiring people tend to go overboard on it. Me personally I like to install the stuff as clean and non invasive as possible even if it means stepping down a gauge on the wiring. The size of power wire you will need is also influenced by how the wire's constructed, generally lots small gauge inner wires are better than less strands of higher gauge wire. Final word of advice would be to keep the system to the least ammount of components possible. This avoids weak links, and keeping the number of drivers you have in the car down costs less and in the end will probably sound better overall.

Gummie

I agree for the most part. I would recommend against running kick and dash speakers and I'm sure Jim/others will agree. Check out this thread for wire comparisons. You basically get what you pay for. Also, the reason most people overbuy on wire is because the next step up isn't that much more expensive most of the time and it's nice to have it incase you decide to add on in the future. As I said before running new wire and having to buy new hardware sucks when you could have just done it the first time.

Least amount of components possible = gold. Not only will it save money but it will also give you a much better/more defined soundstage.

CrazyHawaiian

I'm building this system for the best sound quality I can get. I dont really care about SPL, I just want good quality and good clarity. This is the main reason I want to run multiple components and amps.

For the component sets I planned to mess with the staging alot. I am no sound expert or anything but I've built a few systems and I have alot of friends that built systems of their own so I've made mistakes and seen others make mistakes. One thing I know is that you'll rarely get good staging with any stock speaker location. Usually the tweeters will need to be moved around for the best staging. I know the same should be said for the mid bass drivers (and some even consider the mids more important than the high's) but its just much harder to do since you need an enclosure. I'm not really willing to make custom enclosures (or have someone make them) so I'm trying to do the best I can with the stock locations and what other stuff I might already have (which includes kickpanels and my sub enclosure). My plan was to use the kickpanels to house the 5 and 1/4 mid bass driver and same thing with the 6 and 1/2 mid bass driver in the stock 6x9 location. I planned to mount both sets of tweeters in different locations depending on where they sound the best. I doubt they will end up in the kickpanel or 6x9 locations but who knows. I'm guessing both sets will end up forward of the front seats. Do you guys think this is a bad idea?

For the amps thing, I wanted a dedicated amp for each sub because of the ohm loads. I'm not 100% decided on dedicated amps but its something I'm seriously considering. I dont want the amps to run at low ohm loads like 2 or lower, I think the sound quality goes down. The sub's I'm planning to use are JL Audio 12W6 v2's, they are dual voice coil 4 ohm subs. The enclosure is a Q-form sealed, about .05 c/ft too small per enclosure but I planned to line it w/ polyfill, I'll probably just add extra polyfill to offset the enclosure being a bit too small. So depending on how I wire the subs the ohm loads will be either 8, 4, or 2 lotsa different ways to wire these DVC subs. I would be satisfied with the ohm load of the voice coils in series and the drivers in parallel (4 ohm load and requiring only 1 amp) but then I dunno if I can find an amp with enough power that I personally like to power both subs. They are rated at 400w RMS each so I'm looking at a 800w RMS amp. I want all the same brand of amp's, same series, and I have to like the look (which is kinda lame but hey gotta look good). The way I'm considering right now is wired individually with the voice coils in series which would put out an 8 ohm load for each amp but I'm never run a setup with 8 ohm loads I dunno if it would be totally underpowered. I guess it boils down to much more planning needing to be done on my end before I have the system completely spec'd out. Fortunately for me this probably isnt needed to complete the wiring I want to do. I am going to do 0 or 1/0 for everything connected to the batteries or alternator, and 4awg for the amp connections off the distribution blocks.

Thanks for your help guys! Appreciate the input!!

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

With tweeters in the dash you MUST attenuate them. I have a ton of tweeters that I got in a box when Onkyo went out of buisness. They're very high quality units and I usually pass them over at about 4000hz with just a capacitor and run them off of A the rear channel of the head unit (that doesn't get used for anything else in my case) or B a dedicated pair of channels on the amps. There are other ways to attenuate it but this is the down and dirty way I used to get it done in my car. Now the reason I like tweeters in the dash mixed with the tweeters in the door is because with the right crossover and attenuation it really brings up the sound stage without overpowering it and making everything sound confusing (and thus fatiguing to your ears). This helps ALOT when driving with the windows down at cruising speeds for me because before with just the tweets in the kicks they would literally dissapear while cruising due to road noise and no reflection off of the windows. I believe CDT now uses this same theory in there Up Stage technology, sure sounds like what they're talking about. On the sub boxes one cool thing I discovered is that the ported box recommendation for a JL Audio W3 (the older model, vrc type) will stuff PERFECTLY into the hatch of a Camaro with the motorized hatch and all the carpet and such in there. I got all of the cuts done on some 3/4in MDF at Home Depot on the big wall saw and just put it together like a jigsaw puzzle, got the PVC for the port, jig saw blades, screws, and wood glue all there in one stop. I really liked the sound of this 1 driver ported setup and you may want to look into that for daily driven SQ. It will be slightly boomy due to the box design but I really enjoyed the way that setup sounded. As for the wire, if you can go up a gauge for a little more it's probably worth it to a point, just try and keep stuff in perspective. With an SQ setup how many watts are you planning to run? I would say a 400 watt 4 channel for your front stage and a 400 to 600 watt mono for your sub/subs should sound great and not terrorize your ears to much. Tell us what you decide on and good luck with the setup.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

Why not put the 6's in some door build outs, and use the 5 1/4s in the kick pods? If you already have a sub box you're not going to want to build one so the above post doesn't apply. You may want to try running the tweeters in the kick panels and a set in the dash, or you may want to move them around before you mount them and try A pillars, upper door panels, etc. etc. Remember when you get within 12 or so inches of your midbass it's a good idea to try reversing the polarity of the tweeter (positives and negatives) to see if it sounds better that way. Just some tips that hopefully will help you get the best out of things. As for component systems, I just bought a set of Phoenix Gold Xenon 6.5's and wow those are some sweet speakers, 150 watt RMS handling, silk tweeters, and 24db per octave slope crossovers all for 110 dollars shipped to my door

Gummie

Not true at all. Lower ohm loads only means more output. It's a matter of math, not a matter of more output at the cost of SQ. If I were you I would go out and buy a nice big amp that's capable of running at 1 ohm and then run the subs at 1 ohm. This will save you a good deal of money, space, etc and allow you to buy one good amp instead of two eh amps.

12w6v2s are pricey subs. If you're thinking about buying them at retail price you might as well go with a Brahma or something else along those lines that will slay the JL in both output and sound quality. Even on ebay you might find that Brahma retail prices are still cheaper than the ebay 12w6v2s prices.

Also, I find it slightly odd that you're dead set on doing weird things (multiple amps, etc) for a strictly SQ system and yet you're not willing to build kicks or even a sub box The Q-logic box is one of the worst things you can do to those w6v2s you have your eyes on. Those subs need a decently sized box (read about 2 cubes each). Half a cube each, even crammed with poly fill, is way too small. If you set your mind to it you could bang out a MDF box in a day or a fiberglass over a week off and it would sound a ton better.

As with ohm load, there's no correlation between wattage and sound quality. More power on tap does not mean that your system will sound worse.

I stand by my suggestion of speakers in the kicks and subs in the hatch. Mids in the hatch/sails if you must but don’t have them playing too many high frequencies. You can easily do this with two amps.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

True the having more wattage can't make your system sound worse, unless you try and get higher wattage amplifiers for the same price you could've gotten higher quality amplifiers. I'm very partial to the Soundstream Van Gogh series amps if you can still find them. eBay usually has them quite cheap and a pair of the 400 or 600 watt models would suit your needs well. Other than these you can find the Phoenix Gold Xenon series amps (with a technology very similar to the JL amps, same power at 8 to 1 ohm), and Kicker amps at great prices on eBay. I understand that you already have kick panels as well. On the sub enclosure if it's a Q Logic it can't be .5 cubic foot each, I don't even think they make a truck box for a 12 that small, I think he means 1.5 cubic feet = .5 cubic feet too small. As a warning Q Logic boxes do suck, if you are dead set on using it go around every seam inside of it with a good grade of wood glue. As for the recommended power ranges and types of amps, there's always more expensive components to be had, I could recommend nothing but Rainbow component sets and Tru amplifiers but in the end you have to ask what all that means to you. I come from the standpoint of daily driven listening systems at the best prices, kind of a tradeoff mentality. Also a roll of peel n seal or other sound deadening will add some weight to your car but can make a world of difference if you use it well.

Gummie

The only thing technologically on par with JL's amps that Phenix Gold has is the regulated power supply. This means that the amp will put out the same amount of power regardless of voltage/load put on it.

Just my on that one. I think I've posted enough other stiff in this thread to have gotten my point across

/gummie out

CrazyHawaiian

Well, I guess I should explain why I want to do these things a bit more since they are somewhat "weird" compared to the average system people would install.

I agree the ohm load does not directly correlate to the sound quality but I believe it does play a factor into the amps ability to provide the best quality possible. In past systems I've built I've always tried to max out the potential of what I have as far as the subs and amps powering them. So pretty much run the least ammount of amps possible, at the lowest possible manufacturer ohm ratings for the most power possible, basically get as much as I could out of the setup from a price versus wattage perspective. What I've learned from doing this is it might not be the best way to go for a setup with quality in mind. One problem I had was with overheating causing the amp to shut down. Another problem I had on another system was sound clipping and distortion. The clipping/distortion thing could have been related to something else, but I do know when I rewired each setup and changed the speaker configuration to make the amp run a higher ohm load I no longer had problems. So my ideas for this build was to run the amps at the recommended ohm loads instead of the lowest possible. This way I wont put out as much power but it will be less likely that I'll have problems with heat or any form of distortion/clipping. Maybe there is new technology out there that takes care of this, not really sure. If I did use 1 amp to power these subs it would need to be at least 800w RMS @ 4ohms. I dont think I've ever owned an amp that put out that much power.

The Q-form enclosure is a dual 12" sealed enclosure with a divider in the middle and .85 cu/ft volume per side. I've seen alot of different specs as far as recommended volume for the enclosure with these subs. JL Audio's website lists the spec as .90 - 1.50 cu/ft but does not specify seal or ported enclosure. My local JL Dealer lists the specs for a sealed enclosure in the range of .50 - 1.00 cu/ft volume with the ported enclosure specs being closer to what JL has on their website. I'm guessing I will have to try different ammounts of polyfill and see what happens. First I'll just line the edges, maybe if it dosnt sound right I'll throw some in the middle.

Currently the car is completely gutted and a 4th gen interior swap will begin when I'm done with the tranny swap and wiring I want to do. I'm putting in the interior from a 4th gen Trans Am / Firebird. These door panels have 5 and 1/4 enclosures on the doors themselves. The 5 and 1/4 kickpanels I got were free from a friend. My plan was to try the components in each location to see which sounds better (while also moving tweeters around). If I wanted to put 2 sets of components in the front I could run them in both the 4th gen T/A door and in the kickpanel. I just didnt plan to run both because I want to put components in my other 3rd gen too (which will also get a 4th gen Interior swap and I dont mind mix matching door panels). Before even starting on the wiring for this Z28 I'm going to be dynomatting the interior and trunk.

I hear you about attenuating the tweeters, I plan to buy quality so I know they will come with good crossovers that will allow me to play with the staging. Its interesting because my reasoning for wanting more than 1 set of components also had alot to do with driving with the windows down (which I love to do) and dealing with road noise and stuff.

1meanGTA

hehe my amp does over 2200 watts at 2 ohms and 13.5 volts, its stable down to .5 ohm and 18 volts, so its capable of well over 3kw. i run it at 1 ohm and 14.6 daily, and it puts out more than enough power to keep me satisfied. one thing i noticed that noone touched on was you had said you were planning on fusing for just under the rating of the wire, which is what you want to do for the alt, but for the amps power wire, you only need the total of your fuses on your amps. i've got 2 120's on the dist. block for my crossfire in the back, and a 250 up front, then an 80 amp on the power wire for my diamond.

i think i've got the exact amp for you, it'll run your components and subs with extremely clean power, and look great.

http://www.memphiscaraudio.com/produ...cat=&id=29&p=2

well the old ones looked great anyway, 100 times better than their new designs IMO. look around on ebay for a memphis belle from last year or before, they're not too hard to find. about the sound quality, the difference is so minor from changing impedence, none but the most trained ear will pick out any difference. that belle would probably sound a lot cleaner at 1 ohm than 4, because it wouldnt have to be turned up as much, and it shouldnt get hot on you. definitely wont shut down on you lol. the way it comes from the factory, my amps only 2 ohm stable, iit never even gets lukewarm running at 1 ohm daily.

please do yourself a favor and build your own enclosure, or have someone build you one. you don't want to buy the q-logic.

edit - if you REALLY want sound quality, check out the soundsplinter RL-p, or a single stereo integrity magnum. the rl-p's can be had for 220-230 a piece, the magnums are more like 350ish. brahma's are somewhere between 3 and 400 i believe. image dynamics idq's and idmaxes are awesome SQ woofers, as are any made by diamond. the oz audio matrix's are VERY nice. there are a lot better options for the cash than JL's offerings, although they do make nice stuff.

and i agree wholeheartedly on the rainbow components. rainbow manufactures the alumapros i have, they're basically the same as the germaniums that can't be had in the states, and i LOVE them. easily the best component set i've ever had the pleasure of owning.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

Gummie that's incorrect. The mono channel Xenon amps use a technology they label XeLoad, JL calls it RIPS, it's a self sensing output stage coupled with the regulated power supply. I'm not sure if they use switching rails or what but I know it's similar in function. Directly from PG:

"XeLOAD™ – Full power with automatic load sensing
Load Sensing Optimizes Power Supply and Output Stage
Maximum Power Output From 1 - 4 Ohms"

You are correct on the smaller model AB class Xenons, they don't have the load sensing output.

Back on topic, reardless of what you buy you do want to fuse at the battery for what your total draw will be from the amps. You don't want a 200 amp fuse up front because your wire can carry it, when your amps only draw 40 and 60 amps, a 100 amp should do just fine, if it starts blowing it's pointing to other problems with the setup.

Gummie

Eh, I just didn't write load sensing as well. I did say that they will put out the same amount of power regardless though. Even though the amps might share similar features I would hardly call them equal or say that they're on the same level. JL’s have a much better noise floor, better technology, better all around specs, etc. Compare and see for yourself if you want. xenon vs JL

Crazy: not many middle-high end amps (kicker, ed, jbl, rockford, alpine, etc) get hot even when running 1 ohm at full tilt. I have no direct experience with the 'high end' stuff (ppi, soundstream, jl, etc) but I would assume the same holds true. Again, there's no correlation between impendence and SQ. Send reps from all the major companies e-mails and see what they have to say on the issue if you wish.

You can clip just as easy at higher ohm as you can at lower ohm levels. If anything running a lower numerically load decreases the odds of clipping because you will have a lot more output and thus might not push the amp as far.

Ignore recommended enclosures for the most part. I’m attaching a picture that should explain that logic.

I run a large fuse because just one of my amps is capeable of pulling 130 amps by its self and the other can pull 65.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

True the JL amps are better units, and to be honest I'm not sure how the Xenon amps work compared to the JL I just know I'm partial to PG and the Xenon components I bought are very good especially for the price. If you can afford the JL I would say go for it; if you're trying to get it done a little cheaper the PG Xenons are a viable option but I have no experience with these acutal amplifiers.
The program Gummie is using is WIN ISD it's free and everyone should have it if they're interested in subwoofers, just type in WIN ISD on Google download it and read the tutorial. Enjoy.

CrazyHawaiian

I dont understand why you keep saying .5 when its actually .85? And what about the polyfill, can those types of programs simulate that? I prefer real world. If no combination of polyfill sounds good then I'll run a different enclosure. I already have this Q-form one, it was cheap, and I'm trying to make use of what I have. But I'm set on running those subs because I like the way they sound. And I always like to match the subs and amps if possible (as far as brand).

1meanGTA, I've heard the same thing about fusing the amps. Basically fuse the alt and batteries based on the wires and fuse the amps based on the amps. But then I've heard others say do it based on the wires on all connections. For this setup I'm planning on 0AWG for the alt and battery connections (and grounds), with 300A fuses (but no fuses on the grounds hehe). Power wire(s) to the dist block(s) will also be 0AWG w/ 300A fuses. I want the output from the dist blocks to be 4AWG with 125A fuses. But I guess there is where I'll match it up to the amps and see what the different would be (since the 125A is fusing based off the wire not the amps).

Gummie

I could have sworn that I saw .5 earlier. The extra .35 cubes isn't going to make a ton of difference but it will help. Also, all polyfill does is 'trick' a speaker into thinking it's in a bigger box. You could do that in a program by increasing box size modestly. The only problem with trying to code something like polyfill is that people will stuff boxes to different densities, etc.

1meanGTA

aren't those q logic boxes only made of plastic?

CrazyHawaiian

Hahaha nah its MDF, the cover that goes over the top is plastic but I'm not gonna be using that cover. Damn never knew Q-form had such a bad rep around here

1meanGTA

not just around here.