theboilermaker

I am swapping from a cc qjet to a 600 cfm edelbrock 4bbl in my 87 camaro. I am wondering what all is envolved in this process. My main reasons for the swap are to clean up the engine compartment...(get rid of some of those hoses and wires) and to eliminate the computers influence on the car. I have working EGR and I dont know if I should pull it or not. I have 2 intake manifolds one with and one without egr. What is the overall opinion on egr since I wont have the factory qjet? Also, what else do I need to complete the swap? Do I need a new distributor? Any or all advise would be extremely helpfull.
Thank you

Apeiron

You won't have an EGR port on the Performer, so you won't be able to easily keep it anyway. You'll need a mechanical advance distributor.

theboilermaker

the edelbrock 1400 that I ordered does have the EGR port. I figured I would cap it If I didn't use it but it would always give me the option. It also is set up for vacum advance I beleive. That one I could be wrong on.

Apeiron

The 1400 will let you keep the EGR then. It has timed and full-time vacuum ports so you can connect the vacuum advance any way you like.

theboilermaker

But I still need a new distributor right? PLus, how do I keep a working tach if I change distributors?

theboilermaker

Do I need to run an aftermarket Intake as well?

Apeiron

Yes, you still need a distributor. The tach doesn't care what kind of distributor its connected to. A stock intake won't fit a squarebore carb without an adapter.

theboilermaker

Thanks man. One more thing. I can just plug the EGR port on the 1400 to not use EGR correct? the carb wont care will it?

Apeiron

Won't care at all.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

FWIW, you're well down the road to spending money that won't have any effect on performance.

You will decrease fuel economy, however. Have you considered how you're going to lock up the torque converter clutch?

Another case of not liking something you don't care to understand, helping no one and hurting only yourself (I suppose you are helping Edelbrock's bottom line).

Just a personal opinion, of course.

But, it is good advice.

Send the carb back and get your money back before you hurt yourself any more.

Masochists need not heed. If you insist on hurting yourself, Ape's statements are all correct.

theboilermaker

If I'm not going to switch out the CC qjet then I will have computer problems and trouble codes like crazy. I am not going to have AIR or EGR. Any emissions that I can pull I am going to. I live in Indiana most people don't even know what it means to pass an emissions test. So I ask again, what do I need to hook up my performer 1400. I have the carb and the intake already. A distributor is basically a done deal. All I need now is a way to lock up the torque converter. Considering there were autos without a cc qjet for years there must be a simple way to do this. Thanks for the help
five7kid.

theboilermaker

Looks to me like having a carb with egr hook up will give you all you need to hook up the (trans convt.) I have been wrong before, but some vacuum line seems to be all I need!

theboilermaker

how does this distributor look?

http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...t=MAA-8548201C

Apeiron

That diagram would work if your car was built for export to Canada. In your case, the ECM controls the TCC.

theboilermaker

What is recomended then to lock up the tcc?

Apeiron

There are a dozen different ways you could do it. Painless Wiring, TCI, B&M and others all make a kit to do it, or you can make your own.

theboilermaker

If I understand correctly I overlooked the fact that the ECU locks the torque converter. This, as I now seem to understand is simple to over ride with some creative wiring. I am unclear though on how exactly I should go about wiring things. would it be possible for you to give me a breif overview of what I need to do? Thanks man you are such a help!

theboilermaker

I found the kits running around 75 bucks. Can I do it cheaper myself?

theboilermaker

nevermind I think I am just going to run an overdrive switch!

blue85305

how does changing the carb hurt him. i dont get it. and as far as fuel economy goes i think it was art carr that said you would only lose 1-2 mpg without the lockup functioning. just a question.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Not having a functioning lockup will eventually burn out the 3-4 clutch pack.

An open loop mechanical carb can't compete with a properly set up feedback cc carb for fuel economy.

Apeiron

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=230910

By the way, I agree with five7kid. I'd be sticking with the stock CCC system.

theboilermaker

thanks for the info, If I stick with stock how do I deal with not having egr and AIR. My timing should be all out of wack. I do not have the ability to burn the chip to fix the problem. Also, I like the idea of ME controlling things not a 18 year old computer. I already have the carb and the Intake manifold. It seems easier to my just to bypass the ecu completely. Why is it that you beleive the ccc is superior?

Apeiron

Losing AIR won't make any difference at all to your timing. Losing EGR won't likely make any difference you'll notice either. Maybe you're not comfortable with an 18 year old computer, but is a 49 year old mechanical device really better?

At WOT, which is the only time to care about performance, the CCC system behaves just like a conventional carburetor. The ECM raises the rods and lets the carb do its thing without interference. All the ECM does then is control the timing. At part throttle cruising, the CCC system constantly varies the tuning of the carb to suit the conditions. With a conventional carb, you'll be making a "best-guess" at settings which will be close enough to cover all possible cases. Unless you're going to mount some kind of ***** on the dash to vary the mixture and timing, you're never actually in control of things yourself.

If you're looking to make the car run as well and as simply as possible while spending the least money, then eliminating the computer is not the way to go.

If you want to get rid of the computer because you like to tinker with the car, and hours spent tuning gives you the same strange sort of tingling in the nether regions like it does some of us, and you don't mind spending the money to do it right, then go for it.

Five7kid comes off a little more militant about such things, since he's getting advanced in years and would like to spend his remaining time in more productive ways. Other younger individuals would agree with his views on keeping the CCC system, realizing that time spent tuning a carb is time not spent pursuing the opposite sex. I'm at the age in the middle where I've realized the opposite sex has no use for me, but I haven't yet realized the full futility of existance, so I play with cars.

theboilermaker

I would also like to clean up the engine compartment along with the swap. Taking the AIR off should do alot to help my cause. Anything else I can do while still running the cc carb? Thanks man. The advice is priceless. Know anyone who wants a brand new 50 state legal EGR compatable Edelbrock carb p/n 1400?

Frank_Blotto

Aperion, that little rant was downright hilarious.

theboilermaker

I beleive you have me convinced to try leaving the stock cc carb setup. It doesn't hurt to try it right?

Apeiron

Exactly, you're not out anything by trying. You get to experiment a little and learn a few things about tuning without spending a lot of money. At the end of the process if you're still not happy with the results, then you can still throw money at it.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Thanks, I needed that.

Who was it that said youth is wasted on the young? Or something like that.

Apeiron

George Bernard Shaw, I believe. I suppose it's not possible to truly appreciate a thing without being deprived of it at some point. If that's true, then why couldn't I have the chance to learn to appreciate slow cars and celibacy?