Kamerokid

I need help coming up with a way to get the plastic Heater Control Valves to last longer. My radiator shop in southern California (Rick's Radiator: best radiator shop in all of S. CA) said they used to make them in metal, but today they are literally harder to find than a needle in a hay stack so I'm forced to buy these crappy plastic ones. Luckily they are dirt cheap. I've been doing some online research and also calling multiple auto/radiator shops. Here's what came up with: Since the bottom of the Heater Control Valve sits right on the engine (shown in pictures) the extra heat can cause the Heater Control Valve to get way hotter than it's designed for. This usually causes it to leak under it's weakest point ==> right under the Valve head.

Here's where a light bulb went off in my head...

What if there is some way to insulate not just the valve but the hoses (sinse they, a lot of the times, are also resting on the engine valve cover) from the engine's heat? That may just be what is needed to lessen heat received by the HCV. Maybe wrapping it in something heat resistant? Any ideas would be very helpful to the 3rd Gen community.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The hoses are full of circulating coolant; no need to insulate them. Wouldn't make the slightest difference.

But mounting the valve securely somehow up off of the VC might be of significant help. Maybe even, mounting it to the strut tower by using longer hoses and a clamp to hold them over there, or the like.

Wrapping the valve seems like a wrong turn.

Kamerokid

I like your idea of getting longer hoses and mounting it to the strut tower using a clamp or zip ties or the like. Difinitely something worth looking into. One of the shops told me that 3rd Gen engines just run super hot and there's nothing I can do. Another shop told me to buy 3 or 4 Heater Control Valves (since they're so cheap) with some extra coolant and keep them in my trunk for emergencies. It only takes me about 10 minutes to replace it anyways. But I would rather have a more permanent solution.

Just a little back story: Before these problems occurred it was my radiator that would need to be replaced every couple years. I had the common radiator with the plastic on both sides. Take a guess where the leaks would sprout... My radiator shop, Rick's Radiator, suggested I get an all metal radiator. When I did that, like a chain, the next weakest link turned out to be the heater control valve. It's been over 6 years with no radiator problems but I've had to replace the HCV 2 to 4 times a year since. It's become common for me to check it at least once a month. There used to be an after market company that made metal ones for our 3rd Gen's. But that was short lived and whatever company that made them only did for about a year or 2.

I've also noticed a TON of people on Thirdgen.org having the exact same problems as I have, so that roots out any thought of something else causing the HCV to leak. Maybe if the electric fan turned on at a lower temperature to keep the engine cooler? But that's not possible. Nobody makes a mod for that that I know of. Right now the fan only turns on when the engine reaches around 220*F to 235*F. Every shop tells me the same thing: The people that designed the 3rd Gen's did a horrible job with the coolant systems.

I'm going to look into your idea, sofakingdom. If anybody else has any ideas I'm pretty sure the whole 3rd Gen community would appreciate it!

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

Uh... NO. It is VERY possible.

The stock stat, is what 195*, if not higher? You can buy a 180*, which is generally accepted as still good for daily, all weather street use. Or 160* for track/limited/warm weather use, as this does not let the car warm up enough. Changing to a cooler stat will allow more coolant (than just the heater core bypass) flow to the radiator.
Read this for more discussion on cooler thermostats.

Stock fan thermal switch turns on at 230 / off at 220 , or get an aftermarket one that is on at 195 / off at 185... Yes, your car too can run 35* cooler!

Good information about fan controls here and for the obsessive compulsive here.

Make sure sure have the air dam installed.

naf

iTrader: (7)

The cooling system is not a poor design. The system is just designed to maintain temps that are higher than you're perhaps comfortable with. You can, however, easily lower fan turn on temp by installing a lower rated fan switch or adjustable controller. If ecm controlled it's easy enough to use a switch instead.

Your experiences with failing are not normal though. While the piece is weak it should not be failing so frequently. I would suspect vibration and/or frequent contact with harder surfaces to be a more likely cause.

Kamerokid

Another good reason to use a clamp or zip tie it to something like the strut tower to keep it from resting on the valve cover. The hard vibrating surface of the VC may be causing it. But due to my obsessive compulsiveness (joke) I may also look into what MoJoe suggested by getting a 180° Thermostat switch for my 1992 305 TBI V8. Just for peace of mind. But will running at a lower temp still allow me to pass a smog check? It should but let me know just to be safe. Thanks everyone!

naf

iTrader: (7)

Higher running temps were used to reduce emissions, at least according to many opinions. Lowering the temp should not result in significant increase in emissions IMO. I wouldn't go lower than 180 though.

It would be interesting to see the actual difference though, if any.

Veaceonee

iTrader: (1)

I believe there is a difference.

I looked back at my emissions reports from when I first got the car and the next year. During that year I had to replace the radiator, hoses and put a 180 tstat in (originally had 195 installd). Also, my distributor blew up, so I had a brand new ignition system, and there is a difference. With the new ignition system you would think the numbers would be better, but they are not.

2014s numbers are very close to 2013s. Where there was no significant changes to the engine.

Photobucket is being stupid right now so I attached the two emissions reports.

Kamerokid

Wow! Has it really been 5 years since I checked this thread? Anyways, UPDATE TIME! I ended up doing what many of you suggested. I bought a Jet Performance fan switch and thermostat. Originally the stock switch turns on the fan between 220-230F, now it turns on at between 185-195F. It's supposed to shut of at 180F, but we all know these cars NEVER run that cool unless you're living in a cold environment (Antarctica?). The new thermostat opens up at 170F instead of the original stock 195F.

To summarize: To keep my car from overheating, I have gotten rid of that crappy 2 core radiator with the plastic sides and replaced it with an all metal 3 core radiator. I have upgraded the fan switch and thermostat with Jet Performance parts. Lastly, I have moved the Heater Control valve away from the engine using zip ties to lessen heat and have it resting on a small piece of "Everbilt heavy duty felt blanket with self adhesive" to lessen vibrations. Of course, all parts were installed by Southern California's best radiator shop, Rick's Radiator in the city of Covina. So far, I haven't had any coolant system issues going on 5 years in a row. This is a record for the 19 years I've owned my Camaro! I have a friend who is building a Knight Rider replica with his 86 Firebird 305 who just did the same upgrades through Ricks's. They did a free inspection on my Camaro and were impressed at how clean my radiator system is after all this time. Thanks everybody for all the great advice!

Tootie Pang

iTrader: (2)

Hah. Welcome back! Another tip is to always use GM coolant. NEVER use anything else. Coolant is complex and has lots of additives for various purposes. Prestone, Peak, all that fancy marketed stuff is crap. I used to have parts fail all the time until I started paying up for factory coolant. Then, no more trouble.