Morit

Hey

Ive been making chips for myself for a while now.
I have 730 computer with $8D mask and been working only on this for now.

But now my friend wants me to program some chips for his two cars, both have the 165 computer.
One of those cars has a swapped engine from "we dont know what year".

So my question is - do I have to use the original mask that the computer had?
I saw that there are three types of them ($32 , $32B, $6E)..
Or can I program chips using for example the latest (best of them?) $6E ?

It would be easier just to burn them and send them to him instead of making him send proms to me to unsolder them and read what they are...


Also can I use 27C256 chips and use the "copy trick" (copying the 128bit data to the other half of bin) like burning $8D chips on 27C512?
27C128 are really hard to find :P

WASyL

Morit 27c128 are not that hard to find, and yes you can do the "copy trick", i tested on Aro camaro.

regards

Morit

You're fallowing me..? ;-)
What about the mask..?

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

You can also just offset the bin to the lower half of the chip.

Morit

Ok, no problem with that..

But what about the mask part??
Do I have to use the "original" mask of the chip, if so I have to read the stock one to find out which it is.. Or can I use any of those masks..?

WASyL

yes you have to use same mask as oryginal chip has, if you will use different mask then car will go to limp mode, fans will be on oll the time and car will act funny, this is what i found when playing with RT Tuner and burning, maybe there is other way that i don't know

and yes i'm spying on You ;-)

brest regards

Morit

Any "simple" way to determine what kind of mask there is? Beside reading original chip?
Maybe some sort of part numbers on prom or something like that?

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Should be able to cross reference the broad cast code, against known bins (might be able to download the same bins from Moates Fileman), or to some publications that are out there.

Morit

Still no less work then reading original bin...

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

It is actually...

The broadcast code is a 4 letter code printed on the MEMCAL and the outside of the ECM, I like to open the ECM to verify that the codes match, since sometimes the ECM or the MEMCAL can be replaced and end up with different broadcast codes. I would go by the one on the MEMCAL itself if they end up being different.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Using Moaes "HDR1" you can read them without unsoldering then use a chip adapter so you never have to unsolder the chips from the memcal.
You could just have his memcals for a day to read and return them quickly and then send new burned chips back as needed.
Not sure but I'm thinking there may be some wiring differences between the different masks so it might be best to work from what he has already running so you don't have any mistakes.

Morit

Oh. Where exactly is it..? I dont quite get it..
Is it like that "A901" at the right upper corner on that picture? -

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, that looks like ABUT to me though, but can't tell for sure due to the angle of the picture.

Also right on the chip itself in the MEMCAL you can see a sticker with the broadcast code on it as well.

Morit

Like "7554" on that pic: ?


Ill try that

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Actually "FML", I forgot about the rare occasional 3 letter broadcast code.

The numbers are part of it, but people rarely include the numbers when assigning a broadcast code to a bin name, to be shared or uploaded.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I"m not sure i understand what your asking? Why not take the ECM and get Moates.net's G1 adapter to plug into the computer and burn chips that way. No unsoldering and it doesnt matter what mask you use as long as you have no 9th injector and a 86-89 MAF sensor.

The 165 ecm I thought was the same for all MAF cars, just the chip's (bins) were different for the different masks that were available. Apparently if you have a 32B car and want to run 6E, you just disable 9th injector and vats in the bin and it should run the 6E code.

EDIT: I reread through this and think i understand what your saying. IF you have a 32B mask chip/memcal and try to use that on a moates chip adapter while using a 6E based burned chip, it wont run correctly. Is that correct?



Tunerpro RT has the ability to burn those chips moates sells so that only half the chip is used so it can work on MAF cars. Its so simple

Morit

I am burning chips fine and no need help there with what to use and how to do it.

What I was asking is that I want to burn a chip for a 165 ECM that I dont know what year is from. So I dont know what mask is there.
And I needed to know if I need to burn the chip with the correct "original" mask or can I burn any mask at it should work (and this is what you are saying.. besides the 9th injector fact.. which I think is there and I do need to use it..)

Yes. And I am asking how to know "the easy way" is the chip based on 32B, 6E or whatever so I know what to use.

And I do know that now
When I get the chips broadcast code I will probably find somewhere what mask do they use.

WASyL

Morit from which year the car/computer is and give tell me four letter code on top right on sticker from picture You gave

best regards

convas

What I would do is read the chip, load it into TunerPro then load the $32 XDF then search for the Fan On/Off temps.
If you have the wrong XDF loaded the values displayed wont make sense.
eg. If I load a $32 bin with a $6E XDF the values displayed are obviously wrong
eg. Fan 1 Turn On = -26.50 Fan 1 Turn Off = -40
Load $32B/$6E until it looks correct.

Also if its a stock bin a $32/$32B bin should have 32 in hex location 08 and a $6E should have 6E in hex location 08

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You can run any maf mask ($32, $32B or $6E) on the '165 you want, wiring pinout is the same. All you have to do with $6E is unplug the cold start injector (if equipped), disable VATS in the bin like someone else said already and possibly switch the fan n/o bit. Why do you even bother reading the chip? Just go to moates.net in the downloads section and look in the stock bins section. $6E is the best mask to work with because of the many features and improvements it has over $32B, like highway mode, more aggressive DFCO (disabled from the factory, you'll have to tweak it to get it working), more spark control, ect. I've heard that APYM is one of the better auto 305 bins to start with. ARAP ( aluminum head 350 auto corvette) is a little more aggressive and popular. There's a good wideband o2 patch for ARAP as well.

Morit

Ok, so one ECM has a broadcast code ABUY but the chip has AKFN on it (?),
the other has ABUY all around...
So which mask should I use..?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You don't need to use either of those BCC's. You can use any mask you want, but $6E is the best, IMO. What's the trans & motor specs?

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

When I was burning chips for my 89 I was using a $6e mask... It was the easiest to work with IMO...

Morit

What I dont like about using this $6E is the unpluging cold start injector thing..
I would prefer to have it working (if there is one - I dont know, I didnt see those engines)

Basicly what I do to those cars is disabling the emission stuff and some small changes like the fans etc..

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

It's nothing to worry about. Most didn't come with them from the factory.

darbysan

ABUY shows as being from an '87 5.0 manual Trans, Fed Emisions, 3.08 rear. It should be a $32b mask.
AKFN- Closest I could find is AKFM, which is for an '88 5.0 Auto Fed Emissions, 2.73 rear. It should also be a $32b mask.

I used ANYH Bin and $6e mask for my replacement on my '87. ANYH is for an '89 5.0 auto car. There is a switch in the mask to go from Auto to Manual, so you could probabaly use it for both cars. Using the $6e mask eliminates the cold start injector, and instead uses all 8 injectors to richen the mixture. It works great.

If one of the cars is a manual, you could use ANYR, ANYS, ANYT, ANYU and the $6e bin ( All '89 code).

HTH

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

There's 2 manual bits to check by the way. One at LC0014 bit 0 (for TCC logic) and another at LC0579 bit 0 (for IAC logic).